Wheels for a 65 Riv

[CarlSchoemer]

I have 4 Riviera's. One 63 and 3 65's. 2 have stock wheels with hubcaps. 2 have the factory mags. I am working to get my daily driver on the road. I just went through the brakes. When I took the factory mags off the car, each wheel had a 1/4 inch aluminum spacer between the wheel and the brake drum. I know these did not come from the factory because they are not on my other Riv, and they fit real sloppy. Like the were meant to fit a host of other cars. There is no way to center them on the drum before installing the tires. I remember someone mentioning that the wheels changed slightly from 65 to 70 for one reason or another. Do I have the wrong wheels? Does it matter? Can I just pitch the spacers? Help! I am confused! I can't see why they are there in the first place.

Also, Whats the biggest rubber you can run on a 65 Riviera? The guy at the tire store said 60's could not handle the weight. He suggested 70's. I can't remember whether he said 235's or 255's. But he has never owned one of these either. I would like some feedback from someone in the know if possible. (15 inch wheels)

Thanks in advance,

Carl

[tim63riv]

Carl,

I take it that the car that has the spacers is the 63? The need for the spacers on the 63 is that the wheel hub diameter is larger than the later cars and if your wheels have the "registration ring" still in place, the wheels won't fit correctly. The spacer solves this problem, but then the wheeels center up on the lug studs and nuts, not the center hub. If it is a 65 that has the spacers, someone may have had issues with the brake drum fins interferring with the inner wheel weights, and spacers solve that problem.

Tire sizes that work on 1st gen Rivs always starts a big debate, from the purists that like to run bias ply with the "correct" width white wall to guys who say that a P255/55R18 fits like a glove! I hope other member chime in here to share what they have done in the tire and wheel department. I run P 225/70R15's mounted on 1970 Road Wheels on my Blue 63 and they do rub slightly at full lock. My Black car came with P215/75R15's on steel wheels and don't rub at all. The 225's fill the wheel well better, but the 215's are probably closer to the OE size tire back in the day.

Good Luck,

Tim McCluskey

ROA 9686

[Philippe Racicot]

The 1960's wheels will fit the 1963 Riviera if their register ring is removed. My guess is that you have 1971 or newer wheels with incorrect backspacing. And the 1971 and newer wheels have no register ring but the tube that goes over the hub has a smaller diameter at the base than the tube of the older wheels as it had a cone shape on the 1964-70 wheels while it was cylindric on the 1971 and newer wheels.

[CarlSchoemer]

Can I use what I got safely? Or should I be looking for the correct set of wheels?

Carl

[CarlSchoemer]

Thanks Tim. The car that needs the spacers is a 65. The 63 has regular wheels on it. Is this thing OK to drive with spacers on it? Or should I be looking for the correct wheels. I don't like the way they center up on the drum, because they don't! I realize they are aluminum and are close to the middle of the wheel, but wouldn't they still effect the overall wheel/tire balance?

I am not interested in wheels that are bigger than 15 inches. I don't think they look right. Personal preference I guess. I hope some other folks do chime in about tire sizes. I also would need the right numbers to set up the alignment for steel belted radials. Something is set up a bit different if I remember right.

Carl

[RivNut]

Carl,

There are a couple of articles in some old Riviews that state it's not safe to drive the early model cars with the late wheels if a spacer is needed. If you'll look at Phil's thread on tri-shield wheel covers, there's some facts in there on the wheels you're asking about.

[Guest Chucks70]

Carl,

Tire size for first gen. Riviera's in radials will be closer to 225/75/15. My 65' has 235/70/15 from the previous owner and they do rub slightly at full lock due to the width/aspect ratio. Still, try to stick with either of these sizes as they are close to the original diameter tire offered and they fill up the wheel wells nicely.

[tim63riv]

Carl,

I've had spacers on my wheels for 4 years now with zero trouble. That being said, I would caution people to only use them if they have a way to do it safely. I made my own spacers out of 1/4 inch aircraft aluminum and machined them to fit correctly. I tightened the lug nuts up in ten foot pound increments until I had them at 125 Ft lbs. I had thought about just swapping the front and rear drums and rear axles to 65's which use the smaller hub diameter, but I haven't done that yet.

To adjust the alignment specs for radials, I like about 3 degrees positive caster, which is an increase of about 2 degrees from the spec.

HTH,

Tim McCluskey

[NTX5467]

A few key points --

IF the relationship of the wheel ("offset" or "backspacing") to the brake drum needs the spacers, then they need to be there. IF the wheel has the "ring" inside of the center area, which would hit the front wheel hub BEFORE the wheel is fully seated against the brake drum, then the spacers need to be there. KEY thing is that the wheel studs are long enough to accomodate the added thickness of the spacer for the wheel nuts to fully engage the stud threads when the wheel and spacer are assembled onto the wheel studs. "fully engage" = a few or more threads are visible when the wheel nut is fuly torqued to factory specs.

Usually, we think of spacers as adapting one bolt pattern to another (with a different set of wheel studs for the new pattern), but these spacers are purely spacers for the same bolt pattern.

Typically, this sort of spacer probably should have some looseness on the studs before the wheel is tightened against it, but not much so it will be easier to come off and not cause any "binding" on the wheel studs. The same looseness is also on the newer disc brake cars which use a replaceable disc brake rotor rather than a hub/rotor cast into one part. Therefore, the looseness you observe might not be as critical as you might expect as everything would be "nailed down" when the lug nuts are tightened.

As for tire sizes, don't worry about "60 series" or "70 series" with respect to weight-carrying issues as aspect ratio has nothing to do with such things, BUT the base size of the tire (section width and related things) will affect weight-carrying issues (i.e., a P225/75-15 tire would carry more weight than a P215/75R-15 tire, but the P215/75R-15 tire would be about the same as the P225/70R-15 tire in weight ratings).

For tire specs (i.e. section width and weight capacities at max inflation pressure), you can go into the different tire listings at www.tirerack.com or the particular manufacturers' websites. TireRack's website is good as there are many brands listed there in all kinds of tires. There's also a neat utility listed on the Miata website, to graphically illustrate how the tire's profile will change with different sizings and aspect ratios.

I don't recall the factory tire size on the first gen cars, but if it was an 8.15x15 size, that would probably be equivalent to a P215/75R-15 current size tire; an 8.45x15 would be the P225/75R-15. If a P225/75R-15 size lightly rubs, then the P225/70R-15 might also, but in a little different place due to the slightly shorter diameter.

Just some thoughts,

NTX5467

[RivNut]

Factory sizes for 1st gen cars were 7.10 x 15 standard and 7.60 x 15 optional.

[NTX5467]

Thanks for the verification of the orig tire sizes for the 1st Gen cars. I think that the sizes (i.e., 7.10x15 & 7.60x15) might end up being the P215/75R-15 and P225/75R-15 sizes, if I recall my size progression information. I might need to double check that, though, for good measure.

Thanks,

NTX5467

[RivNut]

Here's a link from Coker Tires website that has a conversion table on it.

http://store.coker.com/pages.php?pageid=18

Ed