1940 180 fires up

[West Peterson]

We finally got ignition in the 1940 180 last night. She fired right up. Unfortunately, I didn't use the right size gasket in the oil filter canister and we had major gushing.

With a new wiring harness installed, we checked all the lights up front and found that one parking light was not well grounded, but everything else worked and looked good, including instrument lights and gauges (exept the gas gauge, which is another project for another day).

When I bought the wiring harness, I had it made so that I could rig up turn signals, so my next goal will be to get them working. I'm thinking of using S&M Electro-Tech's remote switch and control module. Has anyone here set up their car with this system? (turnswitch.com)

[Guest JT]

Glad to hear you got it running! From my experience the gasket that comes with the filter's I've bought is too small and I have always reused the old lid gasket.

Are you using the front parking and rear tail/brake lights for the signals or adding? With the 40's small tailights I think adding a third brake light in the rear window is a good idea.

[West Peterson]

Yes. the parking lights and taillights will be the turn signals as well. The lights are quite bright, even the extremely small 1940 taillights, so I'm not yet ready to add any lights in the rear.

I'll have to make a new gasket for the oil filter canister.

[Guest JT]

I am planning to try the LED replacement bulbs for the tailights but I really need to bite the bullet and replace my wiring harness first. Not looking forward to that under dash time. <img src="http://forums.aaca.org/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

[Guest imported_Speedster]

'It's Alive! It's Alive!' <img src="http://forums.aaca.org/images/graemlins/shocked.gif" alt="" />

Glad to hear that another 'Road Monster' has been brought Back to Life. <img src="http://forums.aaca.org/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

[West Peterson]

Replacing the wiring in back of the dash is NOT fun. Be patient, and don't be afraid to cus a few words at Packard Co. I found that it is absolutely imparative to open up the dash panel in front of the steering wheel and pull the panel forward. I also found it helpful to disconnect an old wire, then connect a new one immediately thereafter. I suppose if I were doing this on a regular basis (or if I better understood electrical schematics), there would be no need for that, as it means that you've got two harnesses tucked into an area where there is hardly enough room for one. What I did was cut away everything that was disconnected as I worked along, gradually making more room to work.

Most of my cussing at Packard was aimed at the person who thought it funny to make it nearly impossible to remove (and worse, re-install) the four front bolts of the oil pan. I believe I spent a total of about 4 hours just putting it back on... two hours for most of the bolts, and another two hours just for those last four bolts!!!

What year Packard have you got, JT?

[Guest JT]

I've got a 40 120. I did a complete engine /trans/OD overhaul a couple of years ago and have put off the wiring since (I did at least add some line fuses due to my concern over the old wiring). I also keep the battery unhooked which is kind of a pain being under the seat. I guess if I do the rewiring I could forget about adding a battery disconnect switch.

I imagine the oil pan is easier to get off my 120 than your 180 although the front crossmember does make the bolts a challenge. The main thing is getting the crank in the right position to slide pan over and out on mine.

[ncgirl05]

West - Happy to hear of your success!! <img src="http://forums.aaca.org/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> It's encouraging to those of us who still have quite a ways to go.

I am not so happy to hear what a pain the wiring is - we have a new dash/engine harness that has yet to be installed in our '41 110...... <img src="http://forums.aaca.org/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

[West Peterson]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">West - Happy to hear of your success!! <img src="http://forums.aaca.org/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> It's encouraging to those of us who still have quite a ways to go.

I am not so happy to hear what a pain the wiring is - we have a new dash/engine harness that has yet to be installed in our '41 110...... <img src="http://forums.aaca.org/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" /> </div></div>

I forgot to add that you'll need to keep a soldering iron handy, because you'll need to re-use some of the light connectors, and there's always some extra wiring that is under there that will need repairing that is not included in the wiring harness. Such as extra heater, radio, fog lights, or a/c stuff <img src="http://forums.aaca.org/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> It's really not all that bad, as long as you don't think it can be done in one afternoon or evening. When you get frustrated, it's best to just step away from it for a day, sleep on it, and do a little bit more the next day. I have found that while lying in bed, solutions to problems often pop into my head before going to sleep, which makes it fun to dive back in.

When I installed my oil pan, I made a decision from the get-go that I would NOT EVEN attempt to put in those last four front bolts during the same day as fitting the pan and installing the 200 or so bolts in the rear. It's amazing how much easier frustrating tasks can be when you're fresh.

Signed,

West (former member of the clipped cormorant club... although... I replaced my cormorant with the plain-jane bail... does that allow me to still be a member?)

[Guest imported_Speedster]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> (former member of the clipped cormorant club... although... I replaced my cormorant with the plain-jane bail... does that allow me to still be a member?) </div></div>

I'm assuming you mean that your bird had a broken wing or two?

Hey, those big birds have more Wind-drag Anyway. <img src="http://forums.aaca.org/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" /> Now you'll probably get another 5.mph top speed. <img src="http://forums.aaca.org/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

[West Peterson]

I just like the sleek look of a car without all the accessories... no extra lights, mirrors, white sidewall tires, or even a big bird standing on the front of the hood. I still have white sidewall tires, but as soon as I get this car on the road, perhaps I can run them down real fast and replace them with blacks. <img src="http://forums.aaca.org/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

[ncgirl05]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> I forgot to add that you'll need to keep a soldering iron handy, because you'll need to re-use some of the light connectors, and there's always some extra wiring that is under there that will need repairing that is not included in the wiring harness. Such as extra heater, radio, fog lights, or a/c stuff <img src="http://forums.aaca.org/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> It's really not all that bad, as long as you don't think it can be done in one afternoon or evening. When you get frustrated, it's best to just step away from it for a day, sleep on it, and do a little bit more the next day. I have found that while lying in bed, solutions to problems often pop into my head before going to sleep, which makes it fun to dive back in.

When I installed my oil pan, I made a decision from the get-go that I would NOT EVEN attempt to put in those last four front bolts during the same day as fitting the pan and installing the 200 or so bolts in the rear. It's amazing how much easier frustrating tasks can be when you're fresh.

Signed,

West (former member of the clipped cormorant club... although... I replaced my cormorant with the plain-jane bail... does that allow me to still be a member?) </div></div>

Thanks for the wiring info! I was under the delusion that yes, it could be done in a day... sadly mistaken I see! <img src="http://forums.aaca.org/images/graemlins/smirk.gif" alt="" /> Hope we don't run into any big surprises once we start!

Us Southern Ohio Packard folks have to stick together, so your membership in the Clipped Cormorants is still valid! <img src="http://forums.aaca.org/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

[West Peterson]

And another thing on wiring...

A lot of those connectors are hard to find, and/or expensive. I'm going to salvage all my original connectors, as well as any wiring that still looks usable. It's nice to have those connectors available even if they aren't hard to find, as often times you'll want it RIGHT NOW.

If you see a loooong black Packard taking corners a little too fast, as though the driver is intentionally trying to wear out his tires, that'd be me!!! <img src="http://forums.aaca.org/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="http://forums.aaca.org/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="http://forums.aaca.org/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="http://forums.aaca.org/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="http://forums.aaca.org/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" />

And if you see it with the wheels on the upside, please turn me back over so I can get back on my way.

[Guest imported_Speedster]

Hey, you could just sell those whitewalls on eBay. That way you wouldn't have to be Embarrassed by them Anymore. <img src="http://forums.aaca.org/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> <img src="http://forums.aaca.org/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

[tbirdman]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

Thanks for the wiring info! I was under the delusion that yes, it could be done in a day... sadly mistaken I see! <img src="http://forums.aaca.org/images/graemlins/smirk.gif" alt="" /> Hope we don't run into any big surprises once we start!

Us Southern Ohio Packard folks have to stick together, so your membership in the Clipped Cormorants is still valid! <img src="http://forums.aaca.org/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> </div></div>

I'm allowing a month for putting my wiring harness in. Teh car should be back from the upholstery shop by the end of this month and the chrome right afterwards. The nice thing about the rain in Oregon is that we're in no rush until the rains leave here in May. I may be slow but I'm good <img src="http://forums.aaca.org/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

[Clipper47]

I rewired my 1947 Super Clipper with a harness from Rhode Island Wire. It came with new dash light bulb sockets. It took me about a week to install but it wasn't as big a job as I feared once the seats were removed which allowed me to get under the dash and see what I was doing. I took the radio, glove box and instrument panel out as well which helped. I sawed the old harness off at the firewall and pushed the ends inside so I could wiggle the wires around and replaced one wire at a time. I also saved the old harness and salvaged a lot very good wire and ends such as sections to the rear lights which I have used

to wire other accessories. I ran two extra wires to the trunk as well in case I decide to install other accessories in future. I needed a soldering iron to attach the bulb contacts to the parking and tailights. I installed a set of Trippe lights a few weeks ago and used some of the old wiring for those as well to keep the engine compartment looking original although I wired them to a relay. The oil pan on the Clipper wasn't hard to get off since Packard had drilled holes in the frame conveniently to allow a socket to get to those front bolts.I recall that I had to lift the front of the engine slightly to get the pan off amnily because the front mount was compressed with age.

[Guest JT]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> If you see a loooong black Packard taking corners a little too fast, as though the driver is intentionally trying to wear out his tires, that'd be me!!!

And if you see it with the wheels on the upside, please turn me back over so I can get back on my way.

</div></div>

Careful West or you might end up looking like this; <img src="http://forums.aaca.org/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

http://mmm.lib.msu.edu/search/imagedisplay.cfm?i=EB01e186

[Guest Randy Berger]

Glad to hear you have fire in the old Packard. One more returns to the road!

[Guest imported_Speedster]

JT,

I've seen that picture before, and I was amazed at how the radio-antenna survived the Rollover.

[Guest JT]

I posted it a while back and here is the other side;

http://mmm.lib.msu.edu/search/imagedisplay.cfm?i=EB01e187

[Guest imported_Speedster]

Yep, Looks like it was a Great car, before it hit that Slick-Ice on that Curve. <img src="http://forums.aaca.org/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" />

[Steve_Mack_CT]

Interesting pictures - maybe the antenna was put on after the accident. Looks like the car was used afterwards. Around 25 years ago a friend rolled his '39 Chevy 4 door sedan cornering too fast. He received a ticket, had a tow truck right the car, hooked the battery back up and drove the car home and then for some time afterwards, although there was not a straight panel left. He probably would not have even been ticketed or needed the tow truck except some passing college kids refused to help, saying there was no way 5 or 6 guys could right such a big heavy old car! Ended up as parts for a super nice restoration on another sedan he still has.

Of course West must be kidding because he made one of the most sensible statements I have heard in a long time, about expecting an old car to handle and ride like one - part of the fun of it!

[West Peterson]

Thanks, Steve.

When I first fired up the car on Thursday night, the engine seemed to shake WAY too much. I thought that the problem was a dirty spark plug, and a poor installation of my front motor mount. When I revved the engine, it smoothed out quite well. But I noticed that the response from mashing** the accelerator pedal was very poor as well. I went to bed a little discouraged, as my expectations were much higher after doing so much work to the car.

On Saturday, after connecting taillight and brake light wires, and connecting the overdrive, we took it out onto the public roads. Even further disappointment, as there was absolutely no power. Barely got up a slight incline. How could such a powerful Packard be so poopless with just one cylinder misfiring!!!

Upon further investigation by my more-talented friends, we discovered that I had flopped #3 and #7 plug wires.<img src="http://forums.aaca.org/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="http://forums.aaca.org/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" /> <img src="http://forums.aaca.org/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" />

WOWWIE!!! Whoah, boy. Does this thing ever move out now. It won't take long to wear out these tires now. Anyone have a set of black bias-ply tires that will fit?<img src="http://forums.aaca.org/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="http://forums.aaca.org/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="http://forums.aaca.org/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />

And speaking of making a sleeeeek plain-janer, I'd sure like to have a set of front fenders without sidemounts, like the 160 that JT posted. My trunk space is about useless, anyway, with that evaporator back there, so I might just as well put a spare in there and put a trunk on the rack.

My next goal is to figure out why I have about a .5-amp leak in my electrical system. Also, when the car wasn't running right and the battery was near dead, I noticed the overdrive wasn't working. I did not get a chance to try the overdrive with a charged battery and a perfectly-running engine. Does the overdrive not work if the battery is dead? Anyone have experience with that?

**"mashing," a term I learned from spending too much time in Atlanta, means to "press."

[West Peterson]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I rewired my 1947 Super Clipper. It took me about a week to install but it wasn't as big a job as I feared once the seats were removed which allowed me to get under the dash and see what I was doing. I took the radio, glove box and instrument panel out as well which helped. I sawed the old harness off at the firewall and pushed the ends inside so I could wiggle the wires around and replaced one wire at a time. I also saved the old harness and salvaged a lot very good wire and ends such as sections to the rear lights which I have used to wire other accessories. I needed a soldering iron to attach the bulb contacts to the parking and tailights.</div></div>

It sounds like I did everything like you did, Clip. I must have gotten advice from you before I started, as I too, hacked the harness offat the firewall, removed the radio, heater, dash panel and glove box in order to see. And it took about 7 days worth of Packard time to finish it (actually, I'm not quite done).

The oil pan on the Clipper wasn't hard to get off since Packard had drilled holes in the frame conveniently to allow a socket to get to those front bolts.I recall that I had to lift the front of the engine slightly to get the pan off amnily because the front mount was compressed with age.

A friend told me that later-model Packards had those holes. I may have to get a hole saw If I ever have to take the pan off again.

[West Peterson]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I'm allowing a month for putting my wiring harness in. </div></div>

Tbird: I can't imagine your car taking that much time to rewire. There's so much less to it, and much easier to get behind the dash.

[Guest JT]

West, mashin the pedal is a perfectly acceptable term <img src="http://forums.aaca.org/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">My next goal is to figure out why I have about a .5-amp leak in my electrical system. </div></div>

How are you determining this?

Their are quite a few things that will keep the OD from kicking in, both electrical and mechanical. First you should download the OD manual from http://www.packardinfo.com/ and check out the operation/ troubleshooting guide, then post back here with some questions.

[West Peterson]

As simple as everyone has told me electricity is, it was my worst subject in high school and college. I passed, but barely. My friends have told me of the drain. Each time we touch the pos-ground cable to the battery post, it makes a small spark. They say this is one indication of a problem.

"Mashin" in the north has a whole 'nother meaning. A much more agressive way of getting a button pushed. You mash it if it's stuck, you press it if it's working properly. I'm not trying to make fun of the term (or the south), I just think the difference in meaning is funny. When my wife first moved to Atlanta, she was on an elevator at Georgia State and a girl walked in and asked my wife to "mash 3." My wife got a real funny look when she used the northern meaning of the word to "mash" the button. I chuckle every time I think of her mashing that button like she's making mashed potatos.

[Guest imported_Speedster]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> Each time we touch the pos-ground cable to the battery post, it makes a small spark.</div></div>

Does the '40 have an electric Clock? If so, that may be the current drain?

If it's not that, I would first suspect the voltage regulator is defective or not wired correctly? A shorted filter capacitor can have a low current drain also. Does it have capacitors at regulator or generator?

[West Peterson]

I have not reconnected the wiring to the clock yet. I haven't even put the glove box back in, yet. I don't think I have a capacitor on either the regulator or generator. I'm not entirely done with my wiring, it may have something to do with my dangling heater and a/c switches (two heaters, 1 a/c), dangling clock and interior wiring, and I still haven't reinstalled the radio. So I'm not too worried right now, as it may just be a matter of buttoning things up and making sure everything is correctly attached. For the time being, though, the battery will be disconnected while sitting in the garage.

[tbirdman]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I'm allowing a month for putting my wiring harness in. </div></div>

Tbird: I can't imagine your car taking that much time to rewire. There's so much less to it, and much easier to get behind the dash. </div></div>

What dash? I'll be doing most of the re-wiring with the dash out as I removed it for woodgraining. No I agreee it should't take a month, but I'll be waiting for my gauges anyway so I need to stretch out the work <img src="http://forums.aaca.org/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

[Guest imported_Speedster]

<img src="http://forums.aaca.org/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" /> I installed the harness in the 645, with connections to dash and to light switch, all in One day. Of course I had all the gauges, switches, etc. already installed on dash, ready for connection. <img src="http://forums.aaca.org/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

I'm Not braggin', just 'The Way It Was'. <img src="http://forums.aaca.org/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> <img src="http://forums.aaca.org/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

In fact, I remember that I desided to really take my time, so I wouldn't make any mistakes. (checked Every thing twice, and then Some) <img src="http://forums.aaca.org/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

[West Peterson]

Did some poking around last night to see if I could find a dead short. Completely checked all the wiring under the hood, as well as making sure the overdrive system seemed okay. Also disconnected several wires under the dash to see if any would divulge a problem. Nothing.

Took it out for a test drive with a charged battery and the overdrive worked well. However, the dash light did not go on to indicate it was ready to engage. It got too late to check that circuit, but I know there are about four wires connected to the light, which also acts as a dash dimmer switch and power feed (I think) for one of the heaters or a/c.

It's a pretty serious short, though, as the instant I connect the battery, the ammeter goes almost to full discharge, killing the battery in short time (pardon the pun).

The good news: the overdrive works.

[Steve_Mack_CT]

West, I am not sure if you have a cut out on your generator but if you do and it is stuck, you will see the battery cannot keep a charge and you will pin the ammemeter in this same way. (what does it read when running?) You mention the gauge moves once you connect the battery, not once you turn on the ignition switch, which would of course indicate a short unless you do have some accessories like a clock, etc. that would keep a live circuit you have not accounted for even when the ignition is off. The cut out is a fairly common problem with Model A fords, more my language. If this is your issue it will be a short life for the generator. These things can tie up in hot weather or if a car sits too long. I believe I have seen cars of that vintage with both a cut out and a voltage regulator, but cannot remember exact years.

Much as I would love to add a Packard someday (Love this forum!) I will tell you guys this - wiring the "A" - pop the fuse, undo four bolts and pull out the instrument panel, and repair - shouldn't take you more than the time it takes to consume a canned beverage while doing the job. The flip side is these cars are not super smooooooth like Packards, so you get to find more shorts and poor connections..

Best of luck with it ~

[Guest JT]

West, you could pull the battery wire off the voltage regulator and see if that's it. Another thing to try is to disconnect the lead on the overdrive relay that runs from the starter solenoid. Also check your horn relay.

[Guest Albert]

Try placing a 6V Lamp between the Battery post and the disconneced terminal, seeing if that lights, then start disconnecting various circuits till the lamp goes out, the generator, and the clock are the first two i would check. The nice part about the lamp in series with the battery, it that it acts as a fuse and will limit the current to the rest of the wiring to maybe 1 amp or so so even if you accidently slip with a screw driver or wrench and short a wire out nothing happens. when you find your draw the light will go out..

[West Peterson]

Thanks for some good ideas. My generator is newly rebuilt, and it charges just fine while running, dropping to the middle of the gauge after a few miles of driving.

I tried disconnecting the horns at the relay.

The clock has not yet been connected.

I took a break last night and did not try anything. Hopefully tonight I can get some minutes under the dash (or hood). I like the idea of a light between the battery post and disconnected terminal.

The other night, I noticed that I had not connected my trip odometer cable to its proper spot near the bottom lip of the dash board. From the speedo gauge, it was laying on top of a metal brace behind the dash panel. At the time, all I thought was that, "oh, I forgot to connect it." But as I layed in bed, I started wondering if this mechanical feature is somehow causing an electrical short. Doesn't sound logical to me, but...

[Guest JT]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I tried disconnecting the horns at the relay.

</div></div>

Make sure you disconnect the line side of the relay rather than the load side of any of the relays you're checking.

Albert's light idea should make finding it easier.

[Joe Block]

West

Talk about 2 wheels. I had two experience like that. the First day I bought my 42 Limo I drove it from Bakersfield claifonria to San Francisco. So on back raod getting ready for the on ramp. So i cruzing at 60 mph, like in my olds tornado front wheel drive, I start the trun and nothing happens, nothing happens. finally i made the turn all right. The other time was it would start and it was going into storage. so i started down the drive in second gear, it seem a little fast so I though I put into low. Well it did get in to low, I did a four wheel skid at the drive way bottom and manage to not hit anyone with the 5000 pound car. My wife said it look like right out of the "Untouchable" when i made the turn, I finally got it stop with the mergency brake. yes brakes are the first think I doing when she goes back on the road.

Joe

[West Peterson]

Success!!!

We checked the brand new regulator and sure enough, that is where the fault was. When I "zapped" the regulator in order to get it into sync with the generator, I must have "zapped" it too long, and the battery relay fused together. All fixed. Everything is right with the world.

Discovered that the o.d. light didn't work because of a burned out bulb.

Fixed the bad ground in the parking light.

It was an extremely satisfying one hour's worth of work. Now I can finish installing side mounts, glove box and heater/a.c. switches.

Does anyone have any experience with vacuum windshield wipers. Mine seem to want to work, but very slow. I manually turned the system under the dash and I could hear and feel good compression. Has the lubrication inside turned to molasis, or should I just replace all the 70-year-old vacuum hoses?

[Guest imported_Speedster]

Great, glad to hear some of the problems are Fixed. <img src="http://forums.aaca.org/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Now is when you need the vacuum pump I was talking about in another thread recently, to test the wiper motor. I fixed one motor by first injecting WD-40 into it with a syringe, to get it loosened up, then injected some light weight oil. It didn't take much of either, to do the job.