removing temperature sensor

[tbirdman]

oK another roadblock. I'm trying to remove the temperature senor feom the left side of the engine block. The nut holding it in came off easy enough. However the sensor won't budge. I have squirted some penetration oil in the hole in the block. Any ideas?

[Guest imported_Speedster]

Of the 3 stuck sensors I've encountered I was successful with 2 of them without damage, but one of them since I had to remove the head anyway, I made a tool to go up in head and tap on sensor from back side. The other one I used a mixture of WD40 and Naval-Jelly, squirted this mix behind the nut and screwed it back in and let it set overnight. Then with needle-nose pliers I rotated the sensor back and forth until it worked free. It's the buildup of rust on the inside that make them stick in the hole. Reinstalling the nut pushes the mixture in around sensor but you have to get enough in there to do the job, which is not easy. The Naval jelly not only helps convert the rust but it helps hold the mix in hole while putting nut back on.

The third one I ended up having to Drill out, it was so stuck. <img src="http://forums.aaca.org/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" />

[tbirdman]

Looks like this may not be easy. This is the lastthing stopping me from sending ebrything off. I'll try you mixture. This one not even moving yet so hopefully that will work.

Thanks.

[Guest imported_PackardV8]

i'm assuming this is on a Packard V8????

[Guest imported_Speedster]

He's talking about the '32 straight-8, with mechanical (tubing type) temp gauge.

The tubing that goes to gauge is very easy to damage when trying to get sensor out of head.

[tbirdman]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">He's talking about the '32 straight-8, with mechanical (tubing type) temp gauge.

The tubing that goes to gauge is very easy to damage when trying to get sensor out of head. </div></div>

Speedster...So if I do break it, what are my options.

[Clipper47]

Speedster...So if I do break it, what are my options.

try to be patient and keep trying to work it loose. They can be rebuild but not cheap!

[Guest imported_Speedster]

Yes, It's either have it Rebuilt or try to find another good gauge/sensor assembly. <img src="http://forums.aaca.org/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" /> If you can find another that is usually the cheapest way.

[Guest imported_PackardV8]

I've never done it but apparently one can obtain an ether bulb from another cheap modern unit and connect it to the vintage unit. The process involves freezing the doner ether bulb before cutting it from the donor gauge. Then quikly attach it to the vintage gauge tube to be saved. Supposedly the actual amount of ether in the bulb is not critical. Of couse care must taken to sever the tubes with out collapsing the ends and i assume the union is soldered together with a sleeve or something of that nature. This process was explained in a Skinned Knuckles magazine ca. 1985 issue.

[tbirdman]

I must be living the good life. I grabbed the end of the bulb with a pair of needle noses and it just popped out. Not sure if the soaking in liquid wrench (or as someone at breakfast thought I said that I was going to use liquid wench <img src="http://forums.aaca.org/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />) for two nights helped as this was the first time I had applied any mechanical tools to hit. I was trying to be careful and not break it and was using my hands only.

So with that out I can now wait for a sunny day to get my car off to the upholstery shop. I've decide on a tan color.

[Tom M]

Ken or Rick,

Would you guys have a picture of this sensor? If I remember right mine was just a brass plug with a hole in the center where the wire goes into then up to the gauge. My gauge didn't work to begin with. Maybe my problem is this bulb thingy?

[Guest imported_Speedster]

I don't have a good picture of the sensor, but yes it's a brass cylinder (bulb) about 1.5" long that goes into head, attached to that is a small tube in center (not a wire) and then a spiral (spring looking) wire around the center tube to protect it (sometimes covered with a rubber sleeve also). The sensor is held into head by the plug/nut. The tube is soldered into the bulb at one end and soldered into gauge at other end. The heated ether gas expansion inside bulb increases pressure inside the tube and gauge causing the oval tube inside gauge to flex, which makes the pointer move.

A crimp in the tubing or a Leak anywhere in the assembly will cause the gauge to not work, but there could also be something loose or broken inside the gauge. If you don't see a problem in the tube then take the cover off gauge and do an internal visual inspection.

It can be bench tested by heating the bulb to about 200.deg and watching what happens inside gauge.

[tbirdman]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Ken or Rick,

Would you guys have a picture of this sensor? If I remember right mine was just a brass plug with a hole in the center where the wire goes into then up to the gauge. My gauge didn't work to begin with. Maybe my problem is this bulb thingy? </div></div>

I'll try to get a picture tonight. Unlike those Texas's boys, we have to work. <img src="http://forums.aaca.org/images/graemlins/smirk.gif" alt="" />

[Guest imported_Speedster]

WORK ??? What's that? <img src="http://forums.aaca.org/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

[Tom M]

Ken,

Thanks. Very much appreciated if you can.

Rick,

I have the spring looking wire but it came right out of the brass plug. So it sounds like mine is toast if wire came right out of plug right? <img src="http://forums.aaca.org/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

Some day I will be there with you on the retirement side of life.

[Guest imported_Speedster]

Yes, <img src="http://forums.aaca.org/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" /> but save the parts because they can be repaired.

[tbirdman]

I already screwed up mine by clipping the solder joint on the gauge end. I didn't realized that it was a sealed system. I just saw a connector that could be screwed off if I snipped the solder joint. My gauge restoration guy just laughed, however I heard he made an example of me at the restoration class where he was a guest speaker. You live and you learn.

[Guest imported_Speedster]

You're probably not the first guy to do that. <img src="http://forums.aaca.org/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

[tbirdman]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Ken or Rick,

Would you guys have a picture of this sensor? If I remember right mine was just a brass plug with a hole in the center where the wire goes into then up to the gauge. My gauge didn't work to begin with. Maybe my problem is this bulb thingy? </div></div>

Here's a picture of the bulb that goes into the engine block.

[tbirdman]

Here's the other end that threads onto the temp gauge that I shouldn't had removed <img src="http://forums.aaca.org/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

[Tom M]

Ken,

Thanks for posting picture. Now I know what to look for.

So if the wire is suppose to be solder to the bulb that means the brass nut spins around the bulb and wire (or is it a tube where the stuff that is inside the bulb warms up then goes to up to gauge to move needle?) something like a flare type fitting. Is that correct?

I will have to remember this when it comes time to reassembling my engine.

[Guest imported_Speedster]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">So if the wire is suppose to be solder to the bulb that means the brass nut spins around the bulb and wire </div></div>

Yep, That's correct, the plug/nut will slide back out of the way, to get access to bulb. When reassembling be sure to put anti-seze on bulb and nut, which will help the next person that needs to take it out. <img src="http://forums.aaca.org/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

[Tom M]

Rick,

Thanks for info. It is a wire or a tube like the gas gauge tubing?

I am trying to figure out how this works. Is it like a thermocouple that attaches to pipe heats up then sends a signal to the gauge?

[Guest imported_Speedster]

Tom, you must have missed my previous post on this subject?

The mechanical type gauge, used in our Packards, is activated by heated and expanding Ether gas inside the bulb and tube.

A thermal-couple-wire is 2 wires, of dissimilar metals welded together, which generates a small current, when heated at the weld, to activate an electrical type gauge.

Here it is again:

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> yes it's a brass cylinder (bulb) about 1.5" long that goes into head, attached to that is a small tube in center (not a wire) and then a spiral (spring looking) wire around the center tube to protect it (sometimes covered with a rubber sleeve also). The sensor is held into head by the plug/nut. The tube is soldered into the bulb at one end and soldered into gauge at other end. The heated ether gas expansion inside bulb increases pressure inside the tube and gauge causing the oval tube inside gauge to flex, which makes the pointer move.

A crimp in the tubing or a Leak anywhere in the assembly will cause the gauge to not work, but there could also be something loose or broken inside the gauge. If you don't see a problem in the tube then take the cover off gauge and do an internal visual inspection.

It can be bench tested by heating the bulb to about 200.deg and watching what happens inside gauge. </div></div>

[Tom M]

Rick,

O duh on my part. <img src="http://forums.aaca.org/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" /> I did read that. I have to much going on in my head with work and my Packard Resortation.

[Guest imported_Speedster]

I can certainly remember that 'Condition', when I was building and testing homebuilt experimental aircraft, which is nerve racking by itself, along with problems at my job at the same time. 'High blood-pressure times', for sure.