Early hydraulic brakes on a Kissel

[Restorer32]

We are just beginning restoration of a 1926 Kissel Brougham. This thing has externally contracting hydraulic brakes. Very unusual, first of this type we've seen. Anybody ever seen these before?

[Guest De Soto Frank]

Chrysler used 'em on their '24 B-70 models ( the first "true" Chrysler. The 4-cylinder Chrysler 52 was pretty much a re-badged Maxwell, and had 2-wheel mechanical brakes. ).

They are weird-looking: the wheel cylinder is inside the drum, and the pistons push outwards, acting on a forged (?) U-shaped pivot link that transfers the motion to the "ears" on the external brake-band, causing them to contract. ( It has all the appearances of Rube Goldberg/ "monkey-motion" set-up, but I had the opportunity to drive a '24 Chrysler Touring a few years ago, and the brakes seemed comparable to the "modern" internal/expanding brakes on my '41 De Soto...)

This was a Lockheed design in the case of the Chrysler...

I have not had one of these apart, but aside from the basic design concept, they should be pretty straight-forward in their construction and operation...

[1937hd45]

I think we need some photos. <img src="http://forums.aaca.org/images/graemlins/smirk.gif" alt="" /> <img src="http://forums.aaca.org/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> A Kissel Gold Bug has been on my Dream List of cars since the early 1960. Wonder if driving one would change that desire?

[KRK Sr.]

Restorer32, Wills Ste Claire uses them too. Wagner sells a hose that fits a firetruck that has the "big" ends you need. They also make the alum. pistons in the cylinders. I think they were $8 each last I got them. Pressure Cylinder is just a 1/2 inch wheel cyl cup. I can dig out my boxes and get numbers if you have problems finding anything. Karl

[Ivan Saxton]

I think you may find early Rickenbackerhad the same external hydraulics. As with all externals, there are two things you can do to improve the effectiveness without impairing the originality.

1) Cut diagonal grooves across the new linings about 2" apart. These expel the water so the brakes work when it is wet.

2) The steel drums are often worn very thin, whereas you want as much material thickness as you can get because the brakes convert the kinetic energy into heat; and also you do not really want the drums to be too flexible. And steel does not have as good a coefficient of friction as cast iron.

The remedy is to build up the drums with a metalsprayed coating of Metco Spraysteel LS (stands for Low Shrink). This is a work-hardening carbon steel with about a 7% molybdenum content. The coating has a slight porosity, which is sealed; but this gives it similar braking effectiveness to cast iron. You have to machine at very slow cutting speed with tungsten carbide tools, resharpened frequently. You have to make sure the drum does not distort or vibrate. If the coating work-hardens you may have to grind it, which is no big fuss. You can use modern brake linings. I have rebuild a lot of brake drums over the years like this, including those of a local brake shop owner for his 1926 Buick and A model Ford. I can get lining recommendations from him. It must have been 15-20 years ago I did his; and he drives his cars on the cross-country trips with one of the melbourne clubs, often to Central Australia. On these if you don't cruise at 50-60mph you get left behind.

I only have Metco oxy-acetylene wire-feed gear to do what I need to, but you should be able to find someone with an arc spraying set-up that feeds a pair of wires, which is much more efficient and economical.

Ivan Saxton

[Restorer32]

We restored and showed a Kissel Gold Bug several years ago. Nothing too exciting about them mechanically, typical 6 cyl performance but they do make a statement! Very comfortable to drive once you have shoehorned yourself behind the wheel. This Brougham is actually a CCCA approved Classic. Built like a tank. The place to see Kissels is at the Wisconsin Automotive Museum in Hartford, Wisc. Kissels were manufactured just up the street from the museum. At least 2 Gold Bugs there, both belonging to the owner of the Brougham we're starting on. This car was purchased on E-Bay and is a very original, un molested example.

[Guest Fr Mike]

The Kissel was manufactured in Hartford, Wisconsin from 1906 to 1931. The Automotive Museum there has a number of Kissels on display, and may be able to help with photos (http://wisconsinautomuseum.com).

[Restorer32]

We picked up the Kissel we are restoring at the Museum. One of the Gold Bugs on display was restored by us. Neat collection, well worth a visit if anyone is in the area.

[Guest antiquepa]

GOT THE SAME BRAKES ON A 1928 CHRYSLER MODEL '52' ALL 4 WHEELS. I HAD TO HAVE THE CYLENDERS RE SLEVED BECAUSE THEY WERE SO PITTED. U CAN STILL GET THE RUBBER CUPS. MINE WORK JUST FINE AFTER THE REBUILD. THESE WERE ORIGINAL ON THE MODEL 52. THIS CAR STILL HAD THE ORIGINAL COPPER BRAKE LINES WHICH I RE-USED. I DID HAVE TO BUY NEW BRAKE HOSES AND HAVE CYL. RESLEVED . I KNOW THIS CAR HAD ORGINAL 4 WHEEL HYDRULIC BRAKES, CAUSE IT SET IN A BARN FOR OVER 30 YEARS, AND I HAVE AN ORIGINAL OWNERS MANUEL, THAT SHOW THE 4 WHELL BRAKE SET UP.