Repaint question-need sage advice

[Guest JDHolmes]

Opinions please...

I'm redoing the interior this week for my 55 wagon. The interior is red /white with red dash etc.

I will be repainting as soon as I get it ground down and primed and a small bit of body work completed. Thinking as a rationale human, I was thinking of doing the exterior in two tone, red and white. However, this would not be the original colors which was two shades of gray. But, I thought that the red and white would have been a factory option. It is not. Red/Black and Black/Red were the only two red combinations.

Currently, the car is original, matching numbers running and driving. I say this because if it had been modded the choice is easier. Interior will be original though redone in original pattern.

I do not intend to keep this car forever. I will be selling it. Despite the ugliness of the dual gray colors, would I be better off returning it to original color, painting it a red/black combo or do you think a red/white combo would hurt the resale at all?

Many thanks for your valued opinions....as always.

[Reatta Man]

Classic cars are meant to be enjoyed. If turning it into a 100% authentic example allows you to enjoy it, so be it. If using a little common sense or personal preference to modify it helps you enjoy it, so be it.

Your idea sounds reasonable to me; just don't put the white color where it will reflect the sun or else you will HATE to drive it on a sunny day.

Joe

[Dave@Moon]

If you use the original Buick shades of red and black it shouldn't effect the value very much. A non-stock combination might, although if this car is to sold as a driver (condition 2-3 value), that would be only a minor concern for a station wagon like this. In either case the red should improve the value of a driver. There's a reason it's called "resale red".

If it's to be a condition 1 show car then you're definitely going to effect the value by deviating from the data plate. A car that loses points loses value in that end of the hobby.

To my thinking one way to make cars of this era stand out is to <span style="font-style: italic">not</span> 2-tone them. Was solid red available? I'm fairly certain that a white (roof only) over red was available. Here's a photo of an old, faded car that I believe was originally white over red.

[Dave@Moon]

Here's a link to 55Buick.com's Special wagon page. I believe the brochure illustration used is of a dover white over red car. It may be of a cameo beige roofed car, but I think it's not dark enough.

[Guest JDHolmes]

I think it has the potential to be a #1 car, but I'm not planning on taking it to that level. This will be a driver and #2 car when it leaves me (at least that's the goal).

Thanks and keep the opinions coming <img src="http://forums.aaca.org/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

[michel88]

First let me say that I like all cars that are original to be kept that way. My choice is the two tone grey, since you are going to be selling it eventually. If you do deviate, I would go red and black or the reverse since that was an option that was available. Another good choice would be solid red as Dave@Moon suggested.

[old-tank]

For BCA judging you can paint any color that was available for that year in any 2-tone (or 3-tone) combination. The judging manual does not list the restrictions you mentioned.

Some colors combos were restricted if there was not stainless trim to separate them (Titian red next to dover white for example tended to "bleed"). This would not be a problem with modern paints.

The wagon would look good wearing Dover white over Cherokee red over Dover white. To me the Titian red looks better on the large series cars: Roadmaster and Super.

Gray?? GAG! Gimme a break! I have a 55 Century CVT that was originally Temple gray...that same color was later used on Dodge trucks. The car is now Cherokee red over Dover white with a white top.

The trim placement on 55's almost demands 2-tone.

Willie

[Guest my3buicks]

I would venture a pretty good guess that most wagons built in 55 had the color scheme of one color roof and a different color lower like the one Dave has pictured and the factory literature has pictured. I also think that many mnay tri-tone 55's we see at shows today probably oiginally where 2 colors same as the factory literature. I also personally think the wagons look best that way, say a white roof and a red body.

[serb]

Ditto.

[Guest imported_MrEarl]

Can you tell us what the original color code from the data plate is. I'm suspecting it is EDD which would be Temple Gray (a light color gray)over Windsor Gray Metalic (a dark gray)which in my humble opinion, in a line up of red and white and blue and white 55's would be very unique and look very classy and original. The Belfast Green Metallic with Dover White upper would IMO be another unique and beautiful combination. I'm curious, from where are you getting your info re it being only available in red and black?

[JohnD1956]

Since the goal is to sell it, I would vote for white top and black body. While I like the grey, chances are it will turn off more folks than it excites. And if color and or combinations are not restricted in the Club, why not give yourself the best chance to market the sweetheart when you're ready to do so?

John D

[NTX5467]

If the interior is red/white and going to stay that way, what about using a white roof and black for the color below the windows? Existing chrome body side trim would stand out with the darker color on the sides of the car (i.e., below the window line). This might result in a little more intense body work to get things done to make the black color look "right", but one aspect of a #1 or #2 car is the quality of the paint and body work (things that you can see and touch rather than a correctly-detailed engine compartment, which could come late with a different owner, if desired). Adding a moderate window tint might help keep the interior temps down in the warmer times of the year and possibly enhance the appearance (a "mod" that can be undone if desired).

Also, I learned that one reason that so many black and dark colored cars are (or used to be) bought in the coastal areas is so that the body sheet metal temperatures will be high enough that water vapors (humidity?) on the inner sides of the sheet metal will evaporate out during the day (in the sun) rather than being "trapped" and not going anywhere (causing rust to form with time). May not be accurate, but it sounds like a decent theory . . .

I'd vote for the white over black with the red/white interior. Contrasting and complimentary colors throughout. With some additional sound and temperature insulation to make it easier to air condition and keep cooler in the summer.

Just some thoughts,

NTX5467

[Guest JDHolmes]

Thank you all so much. In reading your responses, I will first apologize for not making it clearer in my original post. This is a 55 Pontiac wagon. The next logical question is why am I in the Buick section asking advice. Well, I do have Buicks, two Riviera's and the Buick people are much more helpful in my opinion that the Pontiac folks. Nothing really against those that I've spoken with or chatted with, but just an issue I've found even to the point of getting rid of my Pontiac's and focusing on Buicks. IMO, restoring old cars is difficult enough without having to pull hen's teeth to find helpful information. Anyway, not to batter the Pontiac folk, but to explain why I'm here rather than there.

Mr. Earl, the info comes from the data plate and ditzler color page. Light gray upper, dark gray lower. I don't have the info in front of me due to being at work. The only red colors available per that information is red/black combos.

I chose to leave the interior original because that is a very difficult and very costly area to have reworked after sale. Paint on the other hand, is more easily changed back to original and something that is more widely available to have done correctly. While gray may set the car apart from the other 55's which are at a show, the problem is that gray is such an unattractive color. I've never really seen one done well. And, even amongst other 55's which are also red and white, a stationwagon itself will stand out as there are so few of them left out there.

I'm really not a fan of red/black combos either, though I do like the idea of black/white...something to think on.

thanks again for all the help!!

[Ron Green]

I have all the paint codes for 55 Pontiacs and a few years ago I had someone ask me the question regarding the red and white color combo which wasn't available as you found out. If I were repainting I would at least make it a color or combination that was available for 1955 so if you sold the car it could be shown at AACA without major point deductions. A non original color or combo to a purist who enjoys AACA or marquee shows may possibly limit its sale, in my opinion.

Below is the information I provided to this gentlemen a few years ago which may or may not be of interest to you as you seem to have the color narrowed down;

In order to obtain the complete set of 1955 Pontiac paint codes that were available; some were in the dealer album and some were issued during production via the April 1955 issue of the Pontiac Craftsman Newsletter. This is the only issue out of the 12 issues that added additional paint colors for 1955. Compiling the total from both documents there were 39 two tone color combinations available and 15 solid colors available for 1955. As I thought the red / white color combination was not offered in 55 however it was in 1956. Bolero red was the only red available and polo white and white mist were the only whites available in 1955. The whites were mixed more with the various two tone combinations more so then the red. Here are the facts relating to your situation:

Dealer album (26 two tones and 14 solid colors); Star Chief Custom Catalina 2-door was available only in Firegold (#11), Turquoise Blue (#12), Firegold lower / White Mist upper (#61) and Turquoise Blue lower / White Mist upper (#62). The other colors that were released during the running production (newsletter) do not state what model or series that they were to be for, so I would assume all models after April could of had them, however the POCI probably only recognizes these color combinations, pending what day, year or warm fuzzy feeling they have?

Bolero Red (#06) solid color could be ordered in the convertible only. Special order in Bolero Red solid color was available for all other models except the Star Chief Custom Sedan and the Custom Catalina 2-door hardtop.

Bolero Red lower / Raven Black upper two tone could also be ordered in the convertible only. Special order in Bolero Red lower / Raven Black upper was again available for all other models except the Star Chief Custom Sedan and the Custom Catalina 2-door hardtop.

April 1955 Newsletter (13 two tones and 1 solid color); Castle Gray upper / Bolero Red lower (#86) and Bolero Red upper / Castle Gray lower (#91) These were the only reds offered for the additional colors. I only gave you the reds as that is what you are interested in. Turquoise Blue upper / White Mist lower (#95) was in fact the last paint color offered for the model year 1955.

[Guest Skyking]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Since the goal is to sell it, I would vote for white top and black body.

John D </div></div>

One word of caution, if you do the lower body black, make sure the body is lazor straight before shooting that black or any dark color.......

[JohnD1956]

Agreed. But since it's a Pontiac, paint it flat black and make it a rat rod. It will fly out of your inventory, plus the lazor straight body won't be necessary....

[NTX5467]

With all due respect, the satin black "rat rods" I've seen locally have been done with the same degree of execution as if they were painted and color sanded for a "flat" surface. Even the "blackboard black" satin paint will show waves and such, but not quite like a glass-smooooooth paint job. The rat rods I've seen at weekend cruises were very well done vehicles, just that the owners might not have known what color to paint them and opted for a "satin black primer-type" color.

Another thing about the satin black paint might be what to do about water spots when you want to get it spiffed up for a show. Something with some harder gloss might be a better choice for something that will be driven and hand washed--just a thought.

Also, the whole "rat rod" orientation opens up a vast array of possiblities of things not being completely stock, but "period correct" hot rod items. YOUR judgment call on that situation!

Just some thoughts,

NTX5467

[JohnD1956]

I think cars that are in satin black or primer just awaiting their final coat of paint are not really rat rods. From what I've seen a rat rod is a car modified with what's on hand, and it's in primer as the final coat. The several I've seen this year, which is way more than any prior year, had no interior or just basic interior, and or dirt/ grime , and everything else to portray a car from the 50's that was cut up in the garage just to [censored] off daddy.

This is the end stage of development for these cars... Strangely beautiful as they are driven anywhere and everywhere, and they are multiplying. ( Not that I'm primering any of my Buicks mind you, although come to think of it, I still do have that 69 Electra which has not progressed at all this summer.)

JD

[NTX5467]

John, I've even seen some imports in the satin black paint . . . from what the cars originally were, it was an improvement.

Pre-dating the satin black, there was "oxide primer" but that didn't really catch on back then as the satin black seems to have in current times. I really think it's more "High Heat Charcoal Grille" paint, which would fit the orientation as it's readily available in spray cans (for those of proven legal age, of course).

The cars I've seen at cruises in the satin black "dress" are more like well done cars (using new or used expensive parts) that were painted primer black for effect (or something similar . . . charcoal grille high heat black or "blackboard" black). I wonder if the next "thing" will be flames and pinstripes done in "chalk" rather than painted on? Maybe, if you don't like them, you can wash them off and start over? Just don't cause the chalk to skip and make that grating noise . . . hehe.

I think the satin black is supposed to denote "work in progress" or "project", with no real hurry or funds to finish it quickly. I do think that some are trying to capitalize on that "look", though, with expensive cars painted that color.

Enjoy!

NTX5467