Overheating

[Guest sndtubes]

I just finsihed a complete rebuild of my 1930 Buick model 46. I'm having a problem with it tending to run hot and eventually overheat. I've flushed the block and radiator. (The radiator is new). I've made sure the timing is correct. I've cleaned the radiator fins. Is this because the engine is fairly tight or does anyone else have any ideas of what might be causing this?

[critterpainter]

It could be due to the new engine. rebuilt engines are often set up "tight" rather than "loose" on the tolerance range and until the engine has a few miles (or a few hundred miles) under its belt it can run hot.

Since you have a manual timing adjustment are you usiing it when you drive the car? When I rebuilt my Model A ford I took many 5 mile trips until the engine loosened up.

Another factor can be if you have new babbit in the bearings. Even after align boring there can be high spots that have to wear down to take the "drag" off the engine.

Drive the car a lot. stop when it gets too warm. When cool drive it some more. You will notice that you are able to drive the car further and further before it starts getting warm.

Bill

[Guest sndtubes]

Thanks for the info., Bill. Yes I am starting to think it is just that the engine is tight, although tmain and rod bearings were "fitted" after align boring. It already seems to be running a little cooler. It is mainly pulling long hills at highway speeds that causes the "hot" condition. It isn't overheating anymore, just getting hotter than I would like. Another contributing factor is that I was going faster than I realized. The car has a high speed rear end in it which causes the speedo to read incorrectly. I had a "ratio box" made for it which I thought corrected the speedo. I was wrong. When I thought I was running at 50 mph, it was actually 60 mph! So, I gotta pull that thing and send it back.

I have set the timing and always run the car at full advance while driving and full retard at stops. Perhaps I need to set it a little more advanced?

Anyway, guys, thanks for the tips and keep 'em coming if you can think of anything else.

Mike

[critterpainter]

Another trick is to vary the timing depending on the type of driving you are doing. Since your car has a mechanical advance built int the dist if I remember correctly, I would suggest using the manual advance as a "vacuum advance". When the engine is pulling- retard it slightly, going downhill-full advance. When the engine is "running easy" down the road close to full advance is fine. Experiment to find what makes your car happy..Bill

[Guest sndtubes]

Thanks for the additional tip. I think there is something much more serious going on. There may be some sort of blockage in the water flow. The water will sometimes "back up" into the upper radiator tank and start running out the overflow without the engine even being in a "hot" state. Also, when I was driving it yesterday, the valves started hammering all of a sudden. After pulling over, the water was running out of the overflow big time. The car was showing about 180 degrees, nowhere near overheating. After waiting a few minutes, the car was fine again. So long as I drove it real easy (no faster than 45) it was fine. Also, let me say that the radiator core is NEW and we flushed the block before running it.

In addition to all of this, the car seems to have far less power than it did before I rebuilt it. I would expect the exact opposite. I'm beginning to wonder if they put the wrong head gasked on or something like that. This is a real head scratcher and after spending megabucks on this project, needless to say I'M NOT HAPPY! Thanks for everyone's input and please keep it coming.

Mike

[Guest Straight eight]

Boy that seems to smack of an air pocket. I have experienced the same with my 47. I let it warm up with the cap loose,(Ihave a pressurized system) and then shut it off and let the air come to the top, add water, slowly,with engine running, warm it up again, give it a chance to "burp" once or twice. Let's not wish for head gasket problems just yet 45 is plenty of speed for the first thousand miles or so. What was the break in instuctions when the car was new?My 47 manual says 50mph for first 500 miles, then somewhat faster after the engine has warmed up for short distances. Sustained "high speed" driving should be avoided for at least the first thousand miles. <img src="http://forums.aaca.org/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" />

If engine is tight as previously mentioned it won't be a powerhouse til you have at least a thousand or so gentle miles on her.

[Fred Rawling]

Ask the rebuilder how he set the rod bearings. I have seen new engines with 1 1/2 thousands clearance over heat. The book says 2 thousands. You might consider checking the timing and valve clearance again.

[Fred Rawling]

I noticed that you were looking for the exhaust diverter valve. Is that missing or perhaps the valve is frozen partially closed and is sending too much heat back through the intake and restricting the exhaust.

[Mark66A]

I agree with the possibility of an air pocket. They can at times be pesky to get rid of. The other reaheating problem on new rebuilds can be pain on the radiator. My car runs over 15 degrees cooler now that I am running a "bare" radiator core.

[Guest sndtubes]

Hi Guys,

Well I'm going back to the rebuilder on Tuesday. I just took the car on a 100 mile trip Friday (I didn't actually intend to drive that far, something unrelated came up). The car just doesn't run like it used to. It didn't overheat but it did get hot when I was pulling hills on the interstate (195 deg F). It would cool back down when going down the hill. It used to run 55 to 60 with ease and would pull hills at 45 or better (high speed rear end). Now it slows down to 30 to 35 on hills. I'm becoming very suspect of the valve timing. I'm wondering if the rebuilder got the timing gear off by a tooth or 2. What do you guys think of the possibility of that scenario? The car seems to kind of surge and hesitate sometimes. It's kind of subtle, but I can feel it.

To answer a couple of questions,

1) The rebuilder told me he fitted the rods to 1 1/2 to 2 thousandths. Is that maybe too tight? I don't know. I just don't quite buy into that causing all of these problems.

2) Fred, the valve is missing. I've been looking for one just for show. I don't intend to enable the carburetor heat, I just want it to look right.

In regard to that, here is another question maybe you guys can help with. Even though there is a plate blocking off the carb heat, when I placed my hand up to the place that the crossover pipe would be for the carb heat is, my hand is sucked right up to it. Should there be a vacuum there? I kind of don't think so. I put a freeze plug there to seal off the vacuum leak, but it really didn't seem to make much difference.

As far as an air pocket is concerned, I would agree that could possibly be the overheating problem, but it wouldn't cause the loss of power I am having. I suppose there could be two unrelated problems, though. IF there is an air pocket, how can I get rid of it? Also, what do ya mean by "bare" radiator core?

Thanks for all your help guys. Keep the ideas coming!

thanks

Mike

[Guest sndtubes]

Oops, sorry about asking about how to get rid of the air pocket. I re-read Straight8's post. However, I'm not sure that this applies since this is a non-pressurized system. Incidentally, we have drained the radiator once an tried to flush out the system in case it was blocked from crap from the rebuild (didn't see anything). I don't think we would have had an air pocket twice.??

[Rooster]

One thing you must not do is put too much water into the radiator. When cold fill it till the water just covers the top of the cores in the top tank. This gives plenty of room for heat expansion. What can happen is excess water heats up, expands and quickly fills the top tank and starts to overflow. This causes a venturi action and more water keeps following out the overflow pipe until most of the water is gone !! This happens with constant high speed running.

Sounds weird , but happened in my ' 29 until I fitted a pressurised 4 pound overflow tank. This cured it. Your problem could be this or something else. .015 - .002 clearance is correct. I would not be bothered with this. Sounds like something else. As for the loss of power ??

My mate had a new honeycomb core specially made for his ' 29 master. It overheated big time ( new engine as well ) After weeks of frustration and changing nearly everything ( including swapping his radiator for mine )the problem ended up being the honeycomb could not handle the heat exchange.

The design of the tube set -up was that the honeycomb "hole" was too big and this allowed the air to pass too quickly through the fins and not having any cooling effect. He ended up having to get a whole new radiator built ( at another great cost )

It is now the same as mine. A modern tube and fin design , 12 fins per inch.

Then get a radiator shop to slice a thin piece of honey comb off the radiator and solder in front to look like the old design , but with modern behind. Can't tell the difference.

But if there is a lack of power, then check valve timing first. It's cheaper than getting another core made ----- for now. Good luck

Ken.

[Guest sndtubes]

Ken,

Thanks for the info. Actually I figured out the overfilling problem. The overflowing situation happened exactly as you described. I just let the radiator overflow until it "seeked it's level". Now it does not overflow.

A few months before I rebuilt the engine, I had a new radiator core installed . The old honeycomb radiator was just too plugged up to work anymore. I used a modern core as I don't show the car and I really didn't care there was a slight difference in the look. It was supposed to be much better at cooling and quite a bit cheaper. Only an expert would know it wasn't "correct". It worked just fine and I had no overheating problems at all. But I knew the engine was tired and was going to need rebuilding soon. About a year ago, the engine gave me "the sign". It quit running all of a sudden. From the symptoms I figured the problem was the timimg gear as they are fiber type gears. I figured it was now the time to rebuild. Sooo, after a long winter, spring and summer, it finally was done a couple of weeks ago. (I was right about the timing gear, btw). It was actually running quite well before the rebuild. I really don't know why it was running so well as there were bad valve springs, bad valves, lots of blow-by, and the bearings were very, very worn. The oil pressure was very, very low. But, it actually ran well. Now, it has great oil pressure and runs like crap! I'm really hoping there is just a valve timing problem. It will be a farily simply fix if it is.....

[Rooster]

Ok Houston , looks like we have a problem here.

Answer some of the these questions Michael.

Does it actually boil or just getting too hot for your comfort ( what is the daily temp. there )

What grade of oil are you using

What grade of spark plug are you using ( different to before ? )

Has the carb set-up been altered ( running leaner ? )

Have you got the valve clearances set right !!!

One important fact you have to consider is now that there is a modern ( and more efficient core)in the car , the tube internal area will be much greater and water will flow through it much quicker and this leads to engine overheating because the water does not stay in the tube long enough to have an efficient heat transfer. Do you have a thermostat fitted ? If not then you may need to fit a restrictor in the hose to slow the water down a touch. I know you say that it ran OK before, has the weather got hotter since then ?

How is the water pump bearing. If this is overtight/seized it will lead to stripped timing gear and make engine work harder ( overheating )

Just a few more things to consider

Ken.

'29 Standard Tourer

'71 Centurion

[Guest sndtubes]

Ken,

No, it does not boil over. However after pulling some long hills it was getting close, like 200 degrees or so. It will happen especially after driving a few miles on the interstate at 45 or so and then getting off the interstate, it will reach near boiling. I was overfilling the radiator because of the overheating problem and it was overflowing but not boiling. After letting it seek it's happy level, it has not overflowed.

I am using SAE HD 30 oil. Should I use something thinner while the engine is "tight"? I asked the rebuilder this and he said no, I should use 30 weight.

I am using Champion D-60's which is what I've always used.

I've played with the carb some. It has always tended to run a bit rich, at least before the rebuild. There is something goofy in the carb setup, however and I haven't gotten much feedback about it yet. Although the carb. heat feature is defeated with a metal plate, I still get a fairly strong vacuum coming from the opening where the heat tube would attach to. Is this normal. It seems to me that it is NOT normal. I blocked the hole with a freeze plug but I think it actually runs better without the plug than with the plug. I just would like to know where that vacuum is coming from and why and if it is normal. Incidentally, the carb was totally rebuilt a couple of years ago by "the old carb doc". The car would hardly run before rebuilding the carb.

I have not played with the valve clearance myself, but the mechanic that was working on it said he set the clearance at .008" hot just like it is supposed to be. They've been readjusted at least once since the initial rebuild. They are, however, in my opinion, quite noisy. That may be normal for this engine, though.

The water pump is a rebuilt original. It only has a few hours on it. Nothing has been modified on it. I have greased it recently and it does tend to trickle some water at the packing. Not bad, though.

I have considered the water flow is too strong, but how would you slow it down as it travels through the radiator? Would you place the water restriction at the bottom where the water flows out of the radiator? If so, would'nt it just back up into the radiator and cause the water in the tank to rise to the point it would overflow? What would you use for a restrictor? There isn't anywhere to place a thermostat. Or is there such a thing as an "in line thermostat"?

Having said all of this, the car seems to possibly be getting better. I drove it a lot this weekend and it now seems to run a little cooler (still gets too hot at times, however). I'm not sure if it is due to cooler weather or just the car is getting better. The car also seems to have just a bit more power but still not like before. It just seems to me these problems are a little too pronounced and severe for them to be solely caused by the engine being new and too tight.....

[Guffin]

Restricting the flow through the radiator does not increase heat transfer. It would do the opposite. A low flow will decrease the temperature of the water going into the engine but increase the water temperature getting out of the engine. A high flow will give a more uniform temperature in the engine.

I don't understand where the intake sucks air. After the carburetor there should not be any air intake except for the vacuum pump or viper motor. However, if there is a leakage it is usually difficult to set the engine to idle well.

Jan

[Rooster]

Say for example this was a more modern engine with a thermostat controlled water system. What the thermostat is actually doing is opening and closing with the temps of the water to get a constant temperature in the system , most cars about 180F. If you take the thermostat out( in hotter climates like here in Australia) the engine will boil ! This is due to the fact that the boiling water is travelling too fast and not staying long enough in the copper tubes to be cooled.

I have a 160 degree thermostat fitted to my engine . It is a common modification here in Australia.

There are people casting a piece that solders into the top tank to take a common GM thermostat. The original hose cast fitting bolts onto that. You can make an line thermostat to go in the top hose. I made one for my Studebaker a few years ago out of copper plumbing fittings. I have also seen ones made by bolting modern aluminium thermostat housings back to back.

As for the oil , there are "running in oils " available but I have never used them , that's not to say they aren't any good , just expensive. All I use on engines is a cheap supermarket oil 20 / 40 and run it for about 200 miles then dump it. Then go for something a bit heavier. It's all about personal preference.

Michael it sounding more like the problem could be just a tight engine ?

If it is getting better all the time then keep on going. 200 degrees on a long hill on a hot day would be nothing out of the ordinary I wouldn't think. Mine did that until I fitted the expansion tank. Maybe something to consider.

Ken.

[Guest sndtubes]

Well I've been driving the car quite a bit and things do seem to be getting better, so maybe this whole thing is just from the engine being too tight. The car does not heat up quite as much and will cool off faster now when it does. However, I'm still not sure if the improvement is from the somewhat cooler weather we've been having or the car breaking in or both.

The idea of a thermostat is a good one. I'll look into that idea more.

I was wondering about the following: Pull the fan altogether and replace it with an electric one. I know it would look goofy, but should be easily reversed. I would think that the engine would cool better and I'd have more power due the lack of a fan. My understanding is that fans, especially ones without clutches, steal quite a bit of horsepower from the engine. Has anyone tried this or am I being a bit ridiculous?

It does also seem that the lack of power issue is getting a bit better, also. It's a little difficult to quantify this one without a dyno., however.

[Rooster]

The idea of an electric fan has merit. Although I don't think a great deal of power is lost from the original set up because all that is being turned is a fan pulley ( although , my fan hub innards have been replaced with modern sealed ball bearing conversion , much less drag and maintenance) On more modern cars the water pump is connected and this will pull power. The electric fan would be more efficient because it will spin faster than the original , although blades will not be as big. The only way is to instal and try.

Ken.

[Steve_bigD]

An electric fan will have to be 6V and will probably draw more current than the 3 brush generator can supply. You may need to either convert to 12V or install a more modern 6V generator with higher output.

Steve D

[Fred Rawling]

If you have vacuum at the place on the heat riser where the pipe to the exhaust manifold valve would be installed, you probably have a hole in the heat riser tube. Because the heat riser is a circuit from the exhaust manifold valve throuth the heat riser and back into the exhaust manifold, it could be that you are sucking in extra air and exhaust gas into the intake manifold. Even with your freeze plug installed, you could pull in exhaust gas from the connection to the exhaust manifold. It is not hard to pull the heat riser and check it out.

I still think that checking the clearance on the rod bearings would be a good idea based on your statement that the engine seems to be running better (wearing in the bearings).

I subscribe to a magazine called Skinned Knuckles. There have been several articles and comments by engineers and physicists about water going too fast though the radiator. Their conclusion is that slowing the flow of water through the radiator does not allow the water to collect more heat.

Also, the purpose of the thermostat is not to slow the water down. It is to heat the engine up to operating temperature faster.

[Guest sndtubes]

Fred,

Yes I agree about the thermostat for allowing the engine to warm faster and not to cool better. It would seem to me that the cooling system is cooling at maximum capacity when the thermostat would be wide open, not closed.

I spoke to Jeff (Old Carb Doc) who rebuilt my carb about this issue and he said exactly what you did. It seems strange that the heat riser tube would have a breach since it has just been installed and was , according to Jeff, thicker than the original. I'll bet that is why my engine has always been running so rich. Do you think that solving this problem will give me more "power"? Also, it seems funny, but the car actually seems to run better with the freeze plug OUT rather than in. Does that make sense to you? At any rate, I'll pull the heat riser assy. and probably have another tube pressed in this winter.

If the bearings are too tight, would thinner oil be better or maybe, forbid, something like Slick 50? Do you really think it necessary to check the clearances when the rebuilder did that when he fitted the bearings?

thanks

Mike

[Fred Rawling]

It probably runs better with the freeze plug out because it sucks in more air and less exhaust gas.

Forget the oil gambit. If the bearings are too tight, shim them to the proper .002 clearance. Jack the front of the car up, put it on blocks and pull the pan. You have to remove the cover on the front of the flywheel housing to get out the rear pan bolts. A 1/4 drive socket set with a long extension helps. You can probably get a piece of cork at the craft or hardware store to make a new pan gasket. I have made up pan gaskets out of remnants and joined the pieces at 45 degree angles using yellow weather strip adheasive and they did not leak. Just remember not to use the weather strip adheasive on both sides of the gasket. Use permatex # 2 on one side so you can get the pan off the next time it it necessary.

[Dave_B]

I have a '28 Buick standard tourer and I also have been struggling with over heating. Lately I have been able to get it run cooler, but it is still not right. Here is what I have done to date. I installed a new radiator core. This may not have helped but the old one leaked so badly it had to go. I put some screen wire in front of the radiator to help stir up the air as it passes thru the core. I tuned it up (I advanced the timing about 3 degrees)and ajusted the valves. This helped. With this set-up I drove 17 miles to a meet on a hot summer day. On the road I keep the speed below 35MPH. Higher speeds cause it to over heat faster. By the time I reached the meet the car was starting to over heat. Same thing on the way home. I then changed the thermostat. I discovered it had none. I forgot that I had taken it out some time ago. The new one is a modern type 160 degrees. This really helped. I chose this one because it had the smallest hole when wide open, 1", this was to slow down the water and give it time to cool in the radiator. So it is working better but it will still over heat on a 10 to 15 mile ride. I am thinking of pressurizing the system or installing a modern core. I am open to suggestion. Dave

[Guest]

Have you consdered knocking out the core plugs and cleaning out the water jackets. When I worked for a GM dealership we used to get five or six pounds of crap out of the water jackets on straight eight Buicks. Removing it always cured their overheating problem.

[Dave_B]

That is a good idea. I think I'll try it. It may have to wait a couple a weeks though, next week is Hershey. Thanks, Dave

[Guest sndtubes]

I just located an in-line thermostat. I'll be installing it and will let you all know if it helps. Lately it has been cool here and the car has been running on the cool side (140 to 160 degrees). This week it is supposed to get fairly hot, so I will be able to see if it actually helps.

[Guest]

Just a comment about thermostats. I was working for GM and noticed that they were gradually increasing the temperatures at which the engines ran. I tried hotter thermostats on my Pontiac and have run 195 degree ones for over 35 years now. I believe the engine runs better and gets better mileage. I have never had a problem with my engine overheating with any thermostat but I prefer the hotter one and of course in a Prairie Winter the hotter stat means more heat inside the car.

[Guest sndtubes]

I don't think 195 degrees with babbit bearings is such a good idea??

[Buicksplus]

I can't add too much to this thread except to say that I have had a number of freshly rebuilt engines that ran very hot initially. Once broken in (broken in means several thousand miles or more on them), they did fine. The extra friction from a tight engine adds thousands of BTU's that much be removed through the radiator.

All my pre-war cars heat up considerably on hills. You are burning much more fuel in this situation and have much more heat to remove. The cooling margins on these old cars is not sufficient to keep the temperature in the 160- 180 F range. Remember the thermal efficiency of an old engine is pathetic compared to a modern engine. So, whatever power the engine delivers, there is a proportional amount of heat that much be removed by the radiator.

Finally, I don't think running and old car at, say 200 to 220 F is particularly damaging, even if there is some coolant boiling. Boiling takes a lot of heat out of the engine. Just make sure you carry extra coolant so she doesn't drop coolant levels below the top of the radiator tubes.

During this winter, I suggest you drive your car long and often. This will help improve the cooling problem and allow you go get more familiar with the car.

Good luck!

[Guest]

I drive about a thousand miles a month half in town and half on the highway (50-55mph) and have not had a problem with my bearings in 30 years. The comment about breaking in a rebuilt engine is correct. It took over ten thousand miles before my engine did not run a little warm on a long hill. One also has to be sure not to overfill the rad. Mine will push out the excess and then I usually do not have to add collant between the times I change my antifreeze (every two years).

[Guest sndtubes]

Wow, a thousand miles on the hwy in your '30! You must have been tired after that! My goal is to be able to do that, however. I think it's great that you drive your car that much.

Buickplus: Actually I think you have made me feel a bit better. I only have 1000 miles on this rebuild at present. It really isn't gettimg much hotter than 190 right now and it mainly does that when I get off of the interstate and allow the car to fall back to idle. I don't think I would be comfortable driving the car while the coolant is boiling, though. I'd worry about those soft babbit bearings.

Well a bit of an update. I installed a thermostat in the upper radiator hose yesterday and drove the car some today. It was a record breaking 94 degrees here today, so it was a pretty good test. The car did seem to run a bit cooler, but once the car started to warm up over 160 degrees (the temp of the thermostat), it didn't seem to be as effective. It was heating up to about 185 at stops. Apparently the water wasn't restricted quite enough by the thermostat after it opened up. I talked to the radiator shop that installed my new core (modern core) and they are pretty sure I simply need to slow the water down some more with a restrictor valve or plate. I understand there is a nice valve out there that I can use instead of washers or something like that. If anyone knows of one, I'd appreciate it as I have not been able to find one yet on the internet. If I can't find a nice valve, I guess I'll cobble up something. However I do think I'm on the right track as the thermostat did seem to help. I'd still like to see it run just a bit cooler though.

[Buicksplus]

Michael:

Your car sounds to me like it is cooling pretty well, especially with only 1000 miles on the engine. I have found that if you want it to run still cooler, try putting on a larger RV fan. I have found fans to be quite effective in cooling my pre-1930 cars.

RE: restricting washers in the cooling system. This myth has been around this hobby for years, our Ford flathead friends are great advocates of it. While I am a long time car nut and have heard this one for years, I am also a mechanical engineer. There is no technical reason I know of that slowing down the water through a radiator would increase the amount of heat transfer from water to the air. Believe me, more water flow and more air flow through the radiator will make your engine run cooler, not hotter.

Still, this myth still won't die, just like the one that hot water put in an ice tray will give you ice quicker than cold water. The only possible merit to the the restricting washer might be if the water is boiling and cavitating in the water pump, causing the pump to move very little water. A washer could conceivably increase the pressure inside the pump and reduce the cavitation. But this is very unlikely in most operating conditions your old car is going to see.

We have driven our 1927 Buick over 10,000 miles, some of it in very hot weather -- with the engine temp above 200, especially on hills. Our babbitt is still holding up OK. You can cover great distances with these old cars. Just take your 1930 on a couple of old car tours, it's a good way to get them broken in and fun too.

[Guest sndtubes]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Michael:

Your car sounds to me like it is cooling pretty well, especially with only 1000 miles on the engine. I have found that if you want it to run still cooler, try putting on a larger RV fan. I have found fans to be quite effective in cooling my pre-1930 cars.

RE: restricting washers in the cooling system. This myth has been around this hobby for years, our Ford flathead friends are great advocates of it. While I am a long time car nut and have heard this one for years, I am also a mechanical engineer. There is no technical reason I know of that slowing down the water through a radiator would increase the amount of heat transfer from water to the air. Believe me, more water flow and more air flow through the radiator will make your engine run cooler, not hotter.

Still, this myth still won't die, just like the one that hot water put in an ice tray will give you ice quicker than cold water. The only possible merit to the the restricting washer might be if the water is boiling and cavitating in the water pump, causing the pump to move very little water. A washer could conceivably increase the pressure inside the pump and reduce the cavitation. But this is very unlikely in most operating conditions your old car is going to see.

We have driven our 1927 Buick over 10,000 miles, some of it in very hot weather -- with the engine temp above 200, especially on hills. Our babbitt is still holding up OK. You can cover great distances with these old cars. Just take your 1930 on a couple of old car tours, it's a good way to get them broken in and fun too. </div></div>

Thanks for the wisdom! I feel better now. Believe me, my background is in Physics and I'm having trouble with the "restrict the flow of water" concept myself. While I understand that if the water is sitting in the radiator longer, it will cool off more, the water sitting in the block waiting to be passed on to the radiator is getting hotter. It didn't make total sense to me, either. Yet everyone has suggested this. The thermostat may have helped enough that I really don't need to do anything further. I guess I'm a bit too much of a perfectionist in this area. I don't know why. I'm a slob in every other aspect of my life!

I had given the "increased air flow" a lot of thought, too, but I really couldn't think of a good way of acomplishing it. A friend of mine has suggested that putting more of a pitch to the fan blade can help, but my fan is so close to the radiator now, that isn't an option. Electric fans are a possibility, but they will look stupid and there is a generator demand issue, also (see my other post). I would have to remove the existing fan and replace it with an electric. An electric on the front would even be better but would REALLY look stupid.

What do you mean by an "RV Fan"? Is it an electric fan? Or do you simply mean repalce the existing fan blade with another with more blades on it?

My pleasure from owning old cars is in driving them. Believe me, I drive mine a lot. I intend to take it on longer trips as soon as I have confidence in it. I have already have taken it on 100 plus mile trips, but it was hot out and the car was really heating up.

I just joined a local VMCCA chapter because they are a "touring" club. In fact they were going on an overnight tour the next night (last weekend) and I really tried to make it but just couldn't get my you know what together in time to go. Thanks again for your wisdom.

[Buicksplus]

Michael:

I have bought several "RV" fan from Auto Zone type stores. They usually have six relatively wide blades that are flexible so they flatten out some at high speed. They cost about $50.

This is a replacement fan, not one of those weak electrical units. It usually requires some work to get it to fit on your original fan hub. There is a universal set of holes on the accessory fan that may or may not work. Clearance between the radiator and the new fan can be a problem too. I would buy one locally so you can return it if it does not fit.

I put one on my 39 Buick, it barely fit between the water pump and radiator, but it really increased air flow through that radiator and she ran significantly cooler. It is definitely not stock, but was not very noticable under the hood.

Our '27 had an original four blade fan. I had a spare fan, and mounted it 45 degrees out of phase with the original unit. This gave me an 8 blade original looking fan and a cooler engine.

See you on tour someday, we are long time members of VMCCA and just returned from the Glidden Tour in South Dakota. Lots of fun and we drove our car 2400 miles.

[Guest sndtubes]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Michael:

I have bought several "RV" fan from Auto Zone type stores. They usually have six relatively wide blades that are flexible so they flatten out some at high speed. They cost about $50.

This is a replacement fan, not one of those weak electrical units. It usually requires some work to get it to fit on your original fan hub. There is a universal set of holes on the accessory fan that may or may not work. Clearance between the radiator and the new fan can be a problem too. I would buy one locally so you can return it if it does not fit.

I put one on my 39 Buick, it barely fit between the water pump and radiator, but it really increased air flow through that radiator and she ran significantly cooler. It is definitely not stock, but was not very noticable under the hood.

Our '27 had an original four blade fan. I had a spare fan, and mounted it 45 degrees out of phase with the original unit. This gave me an 8 blade original looking fan and a cooler engine.

See you on tour someday, we are long time members of VMCCA and just returned from the Glidden Tour in South Dakota. Lots of fun and we drove our car 2400 miles. </div></div>

Thanks for the suggestion. I'll definately look into it. That just may be the easiest fix.

Yes, hopefully will see you on tour. I'm really looking forward to it. I'm not sure how I will do the tours a long way from home. I don't have a trailer or tow vehicle, so I will likely have to drive to any tour location. A tour within a tour, I guess. I think most people tow their cars to the tour location. Anyway, thanks and I will give your suggestion a try. I will post the results here when I get it done. I may not really know the results until next summer, however, unless we have any more really hot days.

thanks

Mike

[Fred Rawling]

After reading the comment by buicksplus, I had a thought that maybe your waterpump impeller is rusted out and not pushing enough water.

I mentioned previously in this post that slowing the water down does not make the engine run cooler. My information also came from an engineer who wrote an article in Skinned Knuckles magazine.

These cars ran without overheating when they were new. If it over heats, something is wrong and adding fans and washers etc while they may cure the syntoms, they are not fixing the problem causing the overheating.

I have driven the 1928 Master over 85,000 miles since I got it and have never had a problem on 50 mile trips. Years ago I took the 1927 Standard on a 2 1/2 hour trip and did not have an overheating problem in either direction.

[Guest sndtubes]

Fred,

I don't think my water pump impeller would be rusted out. It is a recently rebuilt unit. It looks like it is pumping quite a bit of water if you watch the radiator tank while the motor is running. I agree there is something wrong. The question is what? This car didn't do this before the original radiator went bad. I'm rather suspect that the replacement radiator core which is a modern type core isn't really compatible with the rest of the cooling system for whatever reason. Also, the engine is still rather newly rebuilt which is also causing some additional heat to be generated. I just don't know what else could be wrong. I probably should have bought the more expensive original style core. I was under the impression that this modern radiator would cool BETTER than the old style, but that apparently isn't the case. It think that the modern core DOES have a better capacity to cool the water, but not when interfaced with the rest of this old style cooling system (water pump, etc.) I'm taking it on a short tour this weekend (about 60 miles each way) which involves quite a few hills. We'll see how it does......

[Dave_B]

Michael, I have the honey comb style core in my radiator and I don't think it is so great . It looks super But I am not sure it is cooling all that well. This weekend I got it all warmed up and measured the surface temp of the top tank vs the pipe leading to the water pump. the differance was 10 degrees F. Does anyone know what this differance should be? 10 degrees does not seem like enough to get the job done. Also another possibility for overheating is having the pistons in backwards. I'm not sure about your car but in '28 the wrist pin is offset to the camshaft side. If the pistons are installed with the offset the other way the engine will overheat. I am thinking of droping the oil pan and checking this out. It might be worth thinking about in your situation.

[Guest sndtubes]

Dave,

Interesting point. I'll ask the rebuilder about that. It isn't overheating at the moment, but it is fairly cool out. It will be interesting to see what happens when it gets to 90 degrees again. I'll just have to wait, I guess. I'm not sure I want to go as far as dropping the pan at this point, but I will if I can't find any other remedy and the rebuilder is unsure of the wrist pin offset.