FLINT '08

[Guest BJM]

Aaron,

The subject of judging was an open discussion and several of us were making comments, none of which I recall being used to divide the group. Lots and lot sof Buicks come to regionals and Nationals that are not judged, it's not a requirement to attend a National meet or be a member.

99% of he time, there are no arguments at a BCA get together, whether local, regional or National. If you read my original comments, you will see why judging is important for us as an organization but I stated the reason for judging at Nationals is seperate from an individuals reason.

I am restoring my 49 Roadmaster to reach 400 points so I know I have an authentic 49 Roadmaster. That's personal and selfish and drives me during the boring, tedious restoration process. I am also doing a "restification" of a 68 Riviera that will look visually stock but have about 450 horsepower and improved ride and handling, heated seats, and a satellite radio.

You should give BCA a chance. My best friends in the BCA, well most of them, are probably 10 - 30 years older then I. There is a change going on simply because we can't beat father time. The BCA will become younger, but that doesn't mean the old codgers are mean or unapproachable. They have a lot to offer the younger collector - and you could learn a lot or be in a position to get a nice car sold to you at a "member to member" transaction.

I've brought the rustiest, nastiest cars to meets before.I had the WORST car at the 98 St. Louis National meet (A 64 LeSabre convertible that leaned to one side <img src="http://forums.aaca.org/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" />) Or just showed pictures of my cars - and the reaction is the same as a restored car.

Having a discourse about a particular subject is what this forum is all about. Personally, this subject had been hashed over pretty well and I groaned when I saw it pop up again. I'll look forward to seein you at Flint 08 as a BCA member.

Regards,

Jake

[Aaron65]

I guess I came off pretty harshly; sorry about that. I wasn't trying to make a comment about the older owners or club members being unapproachable, many are just the opposite. And my Buicks are actually almost rust free, so I wouldn't be embarrassed by having them on a non-judged show field, as they are quite presentable. (My Mustang, on the other hand, might stay in the parking lot until I give it some new sheetmetal <img src="http://forums.aaca.org/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />). Everybody has different priorities with their vehicles, and I was commenting on getting younger people into liking Buicks, and hanging around a judged show, in my opinion, isn't the way to do it. It's getting these old things out where people can see them running and driving...didn't mean to get in the middle of the debate...just to share a viewpoint from a possibly non traditional Buick enthusiast.

[Centurion]

Aaron, there are many of us in the BCA who enjoy driving and touring in the vintage Buicks. We've attracted a number of young couples and singles with one-, two-, or three-day tours, and it's a great way to get the Buicks out on the road.

The point is that the BCA can be whatever you need it to be in terms of supporting your Buick interests. If you join a local chapter and show some initiative and enthusiasm for touring, you might very well be surprised by the interest your ideas attract. I don't think that you are as "non-traditional" as you might have been led to believe.

The judging at a Buick National is only one aspect of the BCA, and it's widely recognized that many of us are not interested in the judging. Thankfully, the BCA affords us many other opportunities to enjoy our Buicks.

[Guest my3buicks]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I guess I came off pretty harshly; sorry about that. I wasn't trying to make a comment about the older owners or club members being unapproachable, many are just the opposite. And my Buicks are actually almost rust free, so I wouldn't be embarrassed by having them on a non-judged show field, as they are quite presentable. (My Mustang, on the other hand, might stay in the parking lot until I give it some new sheetmetal <img src="http://forums.aaca.org/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />). Everybody has different priorities with their vehicles, and I was commenting on getting younger people into liking Buicks, and hanging around a judged show, in my opinion, isn't the way to do it. It's getting these old things out where people can see them running and driving...didn't mean to get in the middle of the debate...just to share a viewpoint from a possibly non traditional Buick enthusiast. </div></div>

I can say with no hesitation that the BCA members in my area are constantly out and about at local shows, cruises and other car related functions - regardless of what club marquee, you are going to have members that are strictly show and go, or are over the top and that pass out if a leaf falls on a car let alone let someone sit in it. The national is just a minute portion or what the BCA is all about.

[70Wildcat]

Been with BCA for a little over a year. Brought my 70 Wildcat to the Northeast Regional on Saturday. First time I had done something like that. Registered the car for display. Found a nice shade tree,put my chair under it,had a nice lunch,ventured out several times to look at all the great Buicks,took alot of pictures,talked to quite a few people and thought it was just about the best way to spend a nice summer day. Car ran great,all 160 miles of the trip. I've been involved in other hobbys and I just do what interests me while respecting that others may have different areas that interest them. Bottom line here is that by owning an old Buick you are doing your part in perserving a piece of history. Most cruise nights I have the only Buick. So seeing over 100 in one place is special. So supporting an organization that can make that happen in my mind is important. No complaints here.

Mark Lewis

BCA#41402

65&70 Wildcats.

[old-tank]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> not to be sarcastic, but the buick crowd has one foot in the grave and the other right behind it </div></div>

If you're talking about me get your description right: "one foot in the grave and one on a banana peel"

I've been accused of a lot the things but snobbish is not one of them.

I've not been accused of being nice to a first time poster that insults my (Buick) family.

Willie

[The Old Guy]

Aaron, where do you live in Michigan? The Buicktown chapter just helped the Flint Downtown Development Authority put on a cruise in Flint . There were over 1000 cars of all makes and models, and we had Buicks of all descriptions. There were low riders--street rods-- and lots of really nice antiques. If you live close by, you should consider joining out chapter.I drive my Buicks also! I have put over 100,000 miles on my 40 with the old straight eight, and I just finished a few years ago , a 37 that has a 455 in it. That one already has 30,000 + on it. Tha BCA has a group called the Buick Driving Enthusiasts (BDE) and there emphasis is on driving and enjoying our Buicks. Give us a chance , and let us prove we are not all bad!!!

[Guest my3buicks]

now Joe, we all know your so stuck on yourself that you wouldn't talk to anyone <img src="http://forums.aaca.org/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> let alone guide anyone towards liking Buicks. <img src="http://forums.aaca.org/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" />

[BUICK RACER]

Keith, I don't know that everyone will take your comments about Joe the right way, he's exactly the opposite of that, so I had to chime in!

Aaron, I joined the BCA at 31, knew about it for years, but until I met Joe, "The Old Guy", it didn't much mean to me but a magazine, every month, and a really nice one lately! Joe, sort of took me under his wing, we live around 4 miles from each other, I can can call him for help whenever, even on his wedding anniversary, which I forgot about til he got to my house to help, and a let him help asap and sent him home! He's been a awesome friend and confidant for many years, sort of my Michigan Dad! Even though I'm older, just a little than his oldest!

BTW, I'm the one that start calling him "The Old Guy", and it stuck, though there are tons of folks older, he is still 21 in his mind, if you were a BCA Member, you would have read an article about Joe in our latest Bugle, the monthly publication, full of personal stories, restoration hints, technical advice, Advertising ads in color, parts, vendors, restoration places, and more cars and parts!

Bugle Page has copies of covers of the magazine for about the last six years!

Also Check out Other links has info for all kinds of things related to Buicks, many who also advertise in the BUGLE!

So don't be discouraged by some of the comments here, like has been said there are lots of venues in the BCA that you can pick and choose which ones you want to participate in!

Also check out the Chapter List and think about visiting one of their meetings depending on where you are located, before you make your final decision on not joining!

[Guest my3buicks]

your right!!

[Matt Harwood]

Recent progress notwithstanding, I <span style="font-style: italic">know</span> my Century will be ready for the '08 meet. I'd like to have it judged that year, because I know for certain I won't be able to lay off driving it once it's done. The plan all along has been to finish it, show it for one year, then drive the doors off it. If I have to wait until 2010, I may as well skip the BCA Senior goal and finish the restoration without any regard for correctness and perfection... <img src="http://forums.aaca.org/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

[Guest imported_Thriller]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">not to be sarcastic, but the buick crowd has one foot in the grave and the other right behind it. they are that old.

while everybody is arguing about their show points and not enough help, how come you are not inviting younger people to join the bca ????

i have been to 2 nationals and found the older than me(55) quite snobbish.</div></div>

First off, I promise not to type as much as NTX <img src="http://forums.aaca.org/images/graemlins/smirk.gif" alt="" /> He either has a lot more time than me or types considerably faster <img src="http://forums.aaca.org/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

I'm not one to really jump up and down about my age, but I'm 37, I was in Rochester, and I've never felt unwelcome in the BCA. Granted, I didn't have the best time in Flint in 2003 - our car wasn't ready, so we were kind of like orphans at our first national meet. We weren't made unwelcome, but we didn't know anybody or the area or anything. But we did have fun and saw a lot of amazing cars.

That being said, we had an absolute blast in Rochester...the only complaint I can really make is uncontrollable - the weather...I was sweating enough to...well, on second thought, never mind. Were there things that could have gone better? Yes. Am I going to kick and scream about it? No. What I may do is offer some constructive criticism as feedback to the organizing committee and those at future meets.

Now, to get to the meat (meet perhaps?) of the topic. We drove our cars there...despite having 2 cars in Rochester that wouldn't pass muster on a judged field, we got awards for those cars...they are cherished heirlooms. The driven class (judged only for being essentially period correct, having driven to the meet, having a spare tire, and a fire extinguisher). This was the largest group at Rochester, with 100 automobiles in this class. Doesn't sound snobbish to me. One of the most interesting cars there was an unrestored woody wagon. Also, with your parking concern, there was a '23 on Saturday parked amongst 50s, 60s, and 70s cars.

Not only was I made to feel welcome, I met a lot of great folks and would like to think I made some friends. I spent time speaking with children, on up to octogenarians. I spent time with some locals that came through the park and had a few questions. I even wound up spending a bit of time with a reporter and photographer from the local paper and our cars with my wife and I were in the paper the next day. I didn't spend all day at my cars offering to let folks sit in them or take them for a spin, but I don't recall refusing anyone who wanted a closer look or the hood opened. I also spent time looking at the show field and one of the most memorable characters had a modified car (30s, I forget the exact year) in a pearl colour and he had a more open attitude than many about people touching his car. That is fine and is his prerogative.

You suggest letting people crawl all over the cars in one sentence and then complain that they are too expensive...hmmm...if my car is worth $xx,000, should I be required to allow everyone else to have their way with my property? Perhaps I should leave the doors unlocked on my house too and throw my property open to the neighbourhood.

Another point to look at in terms of showing off the Buicks to the rest of the world is a question of rarity and expense. With the escalating prices for GS and GSX cars, there is going to be a limit as to how much people show them. Would you want your pristine car scratched by some boor trying to squeeze between cars at a show? There is a local Pontiac club that has also attempted to incorporate Olds and Buick. I know fellows who went to their events with '58 and '62 Pontiac respectively and were shunned. Why? It wasn't a Lemans, GTO, or Firebird? The Olds and Buicks they wanted? Cutlass, 442s, Skylarks, GS, etc. They've apparently changed, but I'm still not sure if my Wildcat would be welcomed. Perhaps if I beat a few of them at a 1/4 mile track with it, but until then....

Now, to suggest that the BCA is dying is probably a bit premature. Any organization with 9000 members is not about to go away overnight. Those members own many Buick automobiles. Will some of them find their way to museums? You bet. That may be one of the best ways to preserve them. But these same members are also restoring many Buicks as well. I currently own 4 unlicensed, unrestored cars...I can't save them all, but apparently I'm trying. A bit more money and more storage space and it might work out. Until then, I'll work with what I have.

As for the cost, what do the tuner cars with thousands of dollars of mods and stereos cost? I can't believe they cost nothing. There are a good number of affordable cars out there...just look at Buicks on eBay. If they aren't affordable, then I guess they'll have to wait and earn more money, or buy a car that needs more work and put in some sweat equity. Either way, they'll have something that is different, which is part of what almost everyone wants.

So, as a member of the under-55 crowd, I have to say my experience is different than yours and has obviously been more positive. I have spent a fair chunk of time with the over-55 crowd and it has generally been a pleasure - the stories and memories they have is incredible. I guess we will have to politely agree to disagree.

Aaron65 - nearly 20% of the cars at the Rochester National Meet were in the Driven Class - minimal judging, and driven to the show. If you want to drive your Buicks, you are more than welcome in the BCA.

Getting off soap box now...at least I think I typed less than Willis <img src="http://forums.aaca.org/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> <img src="http://forums.aaca.org/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

[Guest BJM]

Aaron,

See what you started? We all want to give you a great big Buick hug! Kind of like Grandma with that stale Estee Lauder perfume! <img src="http://forums.aaca.org/images/graemlins/shocked.gif" alt="" />

More seriously, I have been members of 2 other major clubs because I wanted to be with folks that shared my interest BUT in the case of one of them, I was told not to bring my 67 Eldorado to their gated community for a monthly meeting. These folks all had initials before or after their names (Dr., CPA) so I am no longer a member.

That's why BCA is better. Olds and Pontiac guys aren't bad either, but IMHO they do cater to the muscle car crowd.

[Aaron65]

OK! OK! You guys win! I stand corrected! <img src="http://forums.aaca.org/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> Maybe I'll try a membership so I can see some more nice Buicks! Oh, Old Guy--I'm from Bay City and I drove my '53 to Back to the Bricks.

[The Old Guy]

Aaron, was your Buick the 53 Special ( blue & white)? I saw it parked on Saginaw street , andwondered why it was not on Kearsley street with all the Buicks! I was in charge of the people on the gates, and did not have time to stop and look for the owner. If it was yours, it is a beauty. Did you get down to where the Buicks were parked? I drove my 63 Electra, my wife drove in the 37 coupe (street rod), and my son came in my 40 convert. We had about 40 Buicks from the Buicktown chapter on Kearsley street.

[JohnD1956]

What about this for an Idea:

Suppose the BCA cut off all judging for all National meets, and instead replaced it with a mandatory judging system for all the regional meets and local meets under the following conditions:

1) The car has to be pre registered for the meet.

2) The owner has to request judging.

3) The owner has to participate as a judge for another car.

4) The BCA provides the awards.

This might solve a few problems like the following:

1) pre-registration allows the chapter enough time to secure appropriate and sufficient count of awards for their show

2) Anyone who wants their car judged can have the luxury of going to a local meet which cuts down on driving and subsequent clean up time.

3) Judges are built in. All that's needed is two cars to be judged, or the Chapter can designate a judge if there are not two requests

4) If the BCA provides the awards, they can be somewhat generic, which would allow them to be bought or crafted more efficiently. Plus they would be consistent across the country regardless if the car was judged in Seattle or Florida or New York or New Mexico. And anyone, in most any calendar year can get their car judged, by attending a local or regional meet anywhere in the country, or out of the country too.

5) It would allow the national meet to concentate on other awards, such as drivers awards, and allow all the Nationals to be more laid back and enjoyed by all.

Just an idea that's all. Any opinions?

John D

[Guest my3buicks]

John, that would be assuming there is someone qualified to judge a particular car at a Regional meet.

[Aaron65]

Old Guy,

Mine was the '53 Special, it's light blue/dark blue...It was parked on Saginaw Street because that's where the workers told me to park it...I guess that's where they wanted me! I did get a chance to see the cars on Kearsley--what a great selection. I talked to a guy with a 4 speed dual quad Wildcat for a bit, and a guy with a V6 Special...I also saw your Buicks, I didn't catch the '40 though; are you selling the Electra? Both nice cars...did you happen to see the '56 Special wagon near the main entrance? That was a beauty too.

[The Old Guy]

AAron, the Wildcat and the Special belong to members of the Buicktown chapter. You were probably through the area before my son got there with the 40 ,as he worked Saturday. You should think about joining us because we do quite a bit in the chapter.

I am selling the 63 as I have a 69 Sport Wagon with AC for a replacement. The wagon also belongs to a member of the Buicktown chapter, and is really a beauty.

[Aaron65]

If I sign up for the club, do I need a sponsor?

[Guest my3buicks]

no, you can download an application from the BCA main page

[NTX5467]

Interesting comments, JohnD . . .

Some thoughts on them --

--Almost every regional or local show has some sort of pre-registration cut-off date. Usually a few weeks prior to the meet event itself. This allows event staff to plan for a certain number of vehicles (trophies, dash plaques, hospitality issues) AND enough time for the mail to get the forms and payment to the chapter operatives. IF day-of-show registrations are allowed, there is some "hook" to get people to pre-register (i.e., meet t-shirts, limited amounts of goodie bags, dash plaques, etc.).

--Not all car owners are always qualified to be judges in the BCA 400 Point System, for many reasons. Finding judges at local/regional meets who are qualified AND have expertise in the various models and years of Buicks might not be the easiest thing to do, either. This would limit the number of available judges with respect to vehicles entered. Now, if it was possible to have a designated person administer a judges instructional school at each of these regional/local meets, that might help

--Having standardized awards supplied by the BCA is an interesting concept. ONLY thing is that with the existing 400 Point System, it is highly speculative as to how many of EACH level of award would be needed for each show. Plus, the cut-off date for the pre-registration would have to be early enough to allow for shipping of these awards from the BCA National Office in Ohio (and hope that none arrive damaged!). This would also effectively eliminate day-of-event registrations in many cases. To me, these local/regional events are as much about marketing the BCA at the local levels as they are about awards--turning people away from a show they might not fully understand, put on by a club they've recently heard of and might desire to join, is not a very swoft situation. I also suspect that your awards proposal would cost the BCA more than any amount currently expended on seed money for any one yearly national meet, etc.

--Entrants requesting judging . . . there are, many times, judged classes or "display class" or "car corral" areas where non-judged vehicles (yet still a part of the meet) are parked at the regional/local shows. Lesser entry fees are charged for these classes than for the judged classes.

--Judging consistency from local/regional event, one to another . . . although the BCA 400 Point System is configured such that it can be administered at any BCA chapter show event (rather than the best vehicle in class automatically getting a 1st place award), with the possibility of the quality of judging differing from one show to another (dependent upon WHICH judges might be at any one event AND are qualified to judge particular classes in attendance), the different shows might be judged fairly, but with different "eyes" seeing the vehicles and different "minds" processing the information, some shows might be judged "tighter" than other shows. Therefore, the only way to really get a good judging would be at the national meet itself (where all or most of the most knowledgeable BCA members would be there, in the same place, at the same time).

If the concern is to have more vehicles across the nation judged each year (via the regional shows), then it might be better to split the national meet into two different events, based on geographical locations. In that way, a designated group of qualified judges could attend and oversee judging of each event, putting some consistency into the situation (or at least more than otherwise might be there, with all due respect). Some national marque car club groups have "nationals" split by geographical areas, but I'm not sure how that might affect the BCA and its national meets if the BCA decided to do that. One side issue might be that rather than planning on making one event near you, you might try to do both of them, but end up making neither (for various reasons). Whereas planning to make just one national meet (as the BCA currently does) might put more focus on getting to the meet if there are no options for other meets in that same year.

Just some thoughts,

NTX5467

[arylix]

hello i'm a new member trying to find info on a '47 buick super 8.would appreciate any info ya could give.