Rusted vehicles & chrome plating

[redhededrebel]

How can I tell when a vehicle has too much rust to make it worth keeping??? Is there some sort if index or rating system for the rust???

Also, when a vehicle has chrome that is peeling off, I assume that is the plating.....is it salvageable?

And yes, I am a novice with very little experience!!! Thanks for your help!

[R Walling]

You could start with the #3 value of the car and see what

you have to buy to put it in that shape. Then you have to decide

if your labor is something that you want to put a price on, or if

it is going to be a labor of love.

If you add the two together and get approximately the same cost

as the value, then it is worth saving.

There is a reason a car is worth $30,000.00. You probably have

that much into it!

Any bad chrome can be re-done, its just a matter of how much you

want to spend.

[Dave@Moon]

On both the chrome and rust front you need to be specific as to what car you're talking about. Some cars can almost be purchased in new reproduction parts, which may or may not be worthwhile. MGB and Triumph TR6 bodies <span style="font-style: italic">and</span> frames are available, for example. However while the bodies are excellent quality, the TR6 frames deviate slightly from stock and can be identified (which may or may not be important to you). Worse, the reproduction chrome parts for both cars are of decidedly inferior quality.

If you're talking about a 1965 Mustang or 1957 Chevy, they'll also have many replacement parts available (of varying quality). The selection is <span style="font-style: italic">much</span> less for a 1938 Chevy, and non-existent for a 1930 Studebaker.

Beyond that you're talking about rehabilitating the rusted pieces and rechroming. With infinite money/time/facilities anything can be done, so obviously cost is the limiting factor. It's likely well worth fabricating new frame members and preping a deeply rusted bumper for re-chroming for a 1936 Auburn, but having to do so for a 1976 Maverick is a whole 'nother story. <img src="http://forums.aaca.org/images/graemlins/smirk.gif" alt="" />

[A by the sea]

Consider the car and the costs.

It is pretty easy to do the math on cost of restoration. Pick up some catalogs for that model car and look online for what goes wrong with the car.

To do a proper restoration on a decent normal car you got to expect to put $8000 to $25,000 into it. Somewheres around $12,000 is usually what it takes to fully restore a car to a driver. Now keep in mind my definition of properly restored means rebuilding all the mechanicals to factory, this is commonly overlooked in many restorations. This also assumes you are doing most of the work, the numbers go way up when you send work our to competent shops.

Your car is on investment so you do not want to have a money pit. Lots of cars are money pits.

Your best investment comes from restored car. The paint and body work are completed and usually there are just mechanical problems to be sorted out. In any case, you are investing your money so do your research, unless you got lots of money to throw away.

Keep in mind there is a time component to think about. It could take you years to restore a car and many good cars are lost to being taken apart and the owners never getting around to doing anything. On the other hand, if you find a nice car that is apart than you might make a good buy.

Now consider the type of car. Clearly a $100,000 68 shelby mustang convertible that is rusted away to nothing is worth the $25,000 worth of work to restore. The 6 cylinder 68 mustang convertible is not worth looking at.

My advice is not never buy a rusty car, unless there are mitigating circumstances.

[Guest 5window]

I agree with all above. Except, I would bet most of us have cars that are "money pits" not investments. I think by the time you count the hours of research and work and the materials involved and the current market conditions, there aren't too many cars that could, or would, be sold for a profit.

So why do it? Well, it's fun, and we love our cars. So yes, look at a project carefully. Some amazing restorations have been completed after starting with just a hubcap,but it takes time, and money. Decide what it's worth to you. And that '76 Maverick? If you restore it, it would be the ONLY one on the road. How's that for unique?

[Guest BJM]

Yes, I think you need to share more specifics about what you have for us to know how to advise. There are just too many variables. There are cars that are too rusted to be saved, even (and usually) really rare convertibles. In many convertibles not restored (original) the tops are long gone and rain has thoroughly rusted them out. Even monied collectors will usually pass on these cars because of cost to restore.

Remember it costs just as much to restore a 1955 Buick 4 door hardtop as it does a 1955 Buick convertible. So let us know what you have and how complete - where the rust is, etc. for better information.

As for chrome, I once sent a pair of taillamp housing for a 54 Chrysler New Yorker to Paul's Chrome for an estimate. These were badly pitted but not cracked (they were pot metal) and the quote for rechrome and prep work was $535 for the pair. It gets wildly expensive in a hurry. If you have a bumper that is peeling chrome, but the base metal is not rust pock marked - then it would be the same cost as re-chroming if the chrome was not peeling.

But if the base metal needs a lot of prep work, such as my taillight housings, then try to locate a better "core" to send in for rechrome.

[Twitch]

Redhededrebel- as pointed out, you may have $30,000 in a certain car but, of course, that doeesn't mean it has a value to anypone else of 30K! There are many, many instances of fools attempting to sell cars that they got in over their heads on. You know the ads "90% complete. Have $32,000 in receipts so far." Yeah the value of the clunker is $25,000 for a #1 condition car so he figures you're lame enough to buy into his stupidity and pay more than the car is worth.

By the same token if the guy who spends $10,000 more than a car is worth is refurbishing it does so because he loves the car and plans to keep it forever that's his busness and more power to him.

Surface rust is one thing as is peeling chrome and many rusted through sections are another story. A couple rust holes in a floor is fixable but add trunk, rocker and door rust through coupled with holed frame rails and well.... you get the idea.

[Ron Green]

Quote; "Clearly a $100,000 68 shelby mustang convertible that is rusted away to nothing is worth the $25,000 worth of work to restore."

Unfortunately if you do all the work yourself except the paint, chrome and upholstery it will probably cost you twice that (at minimum) plus 2 or 3 thousand hours of your own time.

3jakes post is spot on.

[Guest AlK]

Well I am going to wade in here with some comments that will raise the ire of most of the posters that have responded. What they say is for the most part roughly correct, but it does not have to be that way. A lot depends on your definition of 'driver' or 'show car'. Example, I did a 62 Dodge Dart 440 4dr sedan. From the mid-calf of your leg to the ground was nothing but air. It needed floors, rocker panals, and both rear quarters. I found a parts car that cost me not much more than the car itself, but I got it because it had $1,500 worth of new brake parts on it. Total cost of the WHOLE job from start to finish was between $4,500 and $5,000. You see I operate from the stand point of "if it ain't broke don't fix it". I first got the car running, I listened to it, ran it, and monitored the gauges. I checked the exhaust. After about a 1/2 hour and nothing blew up and all systems, sounded, looked and smelled normal, I put it in gear and drove it around the yard. When that was done, I found a body and fender man who was operating on his own and he was hungry. I checked with many other body shops and showed them the pictures of what I had to start with and without fail thay all said they either would not have touched it at all or they would have charged me 3 to 4 times what I paid. Most body shops do not want to do restorations anyway and will only consent to do one if they can charge you an amount equivalent to the national debt. They would much rather do insurance work. My point is, if you look real hard you can get a car restored for a reasonable amount. Keep in mind you will never get a 400 point show car for cheap bucks, but if all you want is a driver then it can be done. I have found however, my "driver" is somebody elses clunker, parts car, or worse yet crusher material. I have also looked at what I thought was a real nice show car and quite possibly a class winner and was told it was barely a driver. I have also done a 51 Packard Patrician in this same fashion and won trophies at local shows with and had less than $10K in it. Bottom line decide what you want the car for and then go out and find out what has to be done. If a top of the line show car then the posters out here are 100% percent correct and their estimates may be a bit low. But if you want something that if fun to drive, looks good, and is different, then go for it within you budget. And lastly if it ain't broke don't fix it..

[Matt Harwood]

The rule of thumb I've always used in calculating costs is do your best guess as to time and money -- <span style="font-style: italic">then triple it.</span> Getting a car from 0 to restored, especially if you use professionals, will usually cost more than most cars are worth. Doing it yourself can be both rewarding and financially wise, but even with your own sweat equity, figure at least chrome plating, machine work and upholstery as things you'll have to farm out. On some '50s cars, the chrome plating bill alone can exceed $20K. Expect $4-6K for a thorough and correct engine rebuild unless it's a small-block Chevy, and $2-10K on an interior, depending on how big the car is and whether you want leather. Then there's paint which gets expensive just for the materials, never mind the time and equipment to spray it.

I don't want to discourage you, but make sure you're going in with eyes open. Don't expect to make any money doing this. Instead, enjoy the journey and count the fun you'll have as part of your payment. The investment you make as a craftsman will last forever.

Try these:

Quality Amateur Restoration--an Oxymoron?

How Perfect?

How Do You Eat an Elephant?

Gremlins

The Professional Advantage

Notes on the Journey

Subcontractors

Plus these:

Auto Restoration for Amateurs

[redhededrebel]

WOW! So much to think about.....very valid points in all, some of which I had not considered but as a result feel I may be in over my head! Maybe if I explain a bit further.....I am looking at a count of 136 vehicles....mostly '40's thru '60's models of all types. I am trying to identify and establish whether or not they are worth selling as is, parting out or crushing. I have a partial list below. I was just hoping for a basic guideline ....where the rust is, how large an area, etc. to maybe get me a bit closer to deciding keep or crush. This is all a bit overwhelming for this novice!! Thanks all of you for your help ... gonna go sit down and watch the sun set for a bit I think!!!!

60 Biscayne 54 New Yorker wagon/van Hornets late '30s early '40s Ford P/U's (?)

46 Fleetline 67 Chevelle SS 58 DelRay

Superwasp Edsel Ranger Pontiac SilverStreak

57 Bel Air 62 Corvair Studebaker

Again, thanks for your help!!!

Gina

[Mike Cullen]

Do your homework, don't crush anything without at least identifying them. Sometimes the most insignificant looking part, piece of trim, etc. will be worth more than the scrap value of the whole car. This is an opportunity to make a few bucks, help others to find a project or a parts car, and preserve a little bit of history.

[redhededrebel]

Hi Mike, and thanks for your input. I agree with you 100% in regards to NOT crushing. I know some folks look long and hard for their "dream car" and to think I may have something here for them is enough incentive for me to "keep them alive". And as for the parts, I am also trying to inventory a warehouse full of used parts...the business here is actually a recycling/scrap yard and as such there are literally hundreds of old car parts. I can tell ya, I've never seen so many taillight assy's or grilles in one place in all my life!!! Thankfully, I have space available to keep them on hand as I know somewhere out there someone is looking for that one little piece to finish their project! We are living in such a fast-paced world these days, I intend to do my part in remembering the gentler times when a ride in your grandpops old Ford p/u was considered a treat!!!

As I get further along in the process, I will post some of what is available. I also have plenty of pics if anyone is interested in seeing them!!

Gracias muy amigos!!!!!

[RocketDude]

Quote

As I get further along in the process, I will post some of what is available. I also have plenty of pics if anyone is interested in seeing them!!

Everyone is intersted is seing all the photos you can submit. also, love to hear more of the story on what you have, and you you got involved in it. would love to see a more complete listof vehicles.

We're all jealous, and wish we were close so we could come over and help you sort through it.....

[RocketDude]

I just found your other post, answering alot of those questions...

...thanks....

[Pontiac59]

Just because it's old and rotty doesn't mean it's not worth selling. Convertibles in particular will bring some pretty stupid money and they can be rotted right into two pieces, or close to breaking in half. I've sold single pieces of stainless for $200. Personally, I'd rather be able to buy a whole car for $200-$400 and haul it home and figure out what to do with it from there, and as long as you're doing better than scrap you're doing good when you have a high volume of cars to sell.

[redhededrebel]

I am trying to get the pics on.....have bunches....got total count now of 136 vehicles and am working on list....and boy, RocketDude...I am just outside of Austin and would LOVE to have help!!! lolol It can be a bit overwhelming for me....I learned thru necessity and basically trial and error on an old Dodge Dart with a slant 6 (a WHAT?!???) in it years back to fix it myself if I could because as a single mom I coudn't afford mechanics....got easier when I walked into a Western Auto and found this rack of "How to Fix, Change or Repair what's broke" pamphlets!!! It was sure dirty work but o man I would be so proud when I got whatever it was running again!!!

N-E-Ways....I am gonna work on posting pics again and will also give short synopsis of why I am here!!

THANKS LOADS AND LOADS GUYS!!!!!!!!!!!!

[redhededrebel]

Hey guys.....had emergency and was gone for a bit ......

Okay, am I missing some directions here or just need new glasses.....but I can't seem to figure out how to post these pics!!!! HELP!!!!!

[Guest rbl2]

Re: posting pictures, you'll need to have posted your pictures on a web site such as www.photobucket.com and from there you'll be able to post them here. You can load pictures directly from your computer to the website free of charge. Highlight and copy the URL and then coming here where you want to post the picture click on image in the "Instant UBB Code" box. Another window will pop up and then you paste the URL in the space provided. I hope you understood all that. It's really not hard at all. If I can do it, anybody can.