Covertible Top Questions (1963 Electra 225)

[JKASZ326]

I recently purchased a 1963 Buick Electra 225 convertible. When I tried to put the top down, it raised up a few inches then stopped. The tubing had (brake) fluid in them before I tried and now have mostly air.

I don't hear anything when I hit the switch now. Should I hear a switch clicking or the motor humming when I hit the switch or is this normal?

I heard somewhere that an automatic top can be put down manually. Is this true? There would seem to be more to it than that with the hydraulics and all.

The car is almost road worthy. Just need to replace a brake line, a wheel bearing and a few other things.

Can anyone suggest a course of action for me on this convertible top?

Thank you,

Jay

[jerryacheson]

Have you checked the fluid level in the pump? I had a recent problem where my top worked sometimes and sometimes it didn't. I filled the pump and everything is fine now. Know where the pump is? On my 62 Electra it's under a piece of cloth which drapes from the rear of the back seat to where the bottom of the vinyl top ties in the the body.

[JKASZ326]

Thanks for the info. I'll give it a try.

Do I have to remove the pump to put fluid in? Also, I saw elswhere that automatic transmission fluid is being recommended. I think there is brake fluid in now. What do you think?

By the way, I grew up in Indy, but have lived near Lexington, Ky for the past 20+ years. Will always be a Hoosier though.

Thanks again.

Jay Hertz

Midway, KY

[jerryacheson]

Of course yours could be different since it's a year newer. There was a metal cover over my motor that I had to remove. There was a rubber plug in one end of the pump that had to be removed. I filled that hole until the fluid was even with the bottom of the hole. I don't remember what fluid I used. I'll see if I can figure it out tonite and post later. I was worried about bleeding the system but it seemed to take care of itself.

[JKASZ326]

Got the metal cover off and found the plug. The fluid that's in the pump looks and smells like transmission fluid. The parts catalog from oldbuickparts.com has Silicon Brake Fluid listed under Group #13 Covertible Tops & Parts. So I'm not really sure what to use.

I was looking it over last night and wondering the same thing about bleeding the system. I'm glad you added that "take care of itself" part because I coudn't see how it could be bled easily.

Nice machine you have there. We get to Indy pretty often, so I'll keep an eye out for it. We have family mostly on the south side, but also some on the north side. I grew up a couple of miles from the Indianapolis Motor Speedway. It was a great place to be a kid (back then anyway).

Thanks for your help. It's much appreciated.

Jay Hertz

Midway, KY

[jerryacheson]

I'm sure no expert on these convertible tops. I'm just sharing what I did and how well it worked. Best of luck. Let me know when you're in town and wanting to talk Buick. I like doing that. <img src="http://forums.aaca.org/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="http://forums.aaca.org/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="http://forums.aaca.org/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

[JohnD1956]

The manual for my 69's said to use Dextron Transmission fluid only. As with Jerry's posts, the motor is under the well for the top. In my case I removed the pump and drizzled fluid into the reservoir. Then I modified a rubber plug according to the factory recommendations. I cut the end off the plug, and ran a short piece of 1/4 steel brake line through it. Then I put a piece of 7/32nds hose on the other end of the brake line so that the hose could reach the lower floor area of the trunk. The free end of the 7/32nds hose was dunked into a container filled with the trans fluid and the plug installed in the reservoir. I then ran the top through several up and down cycles to bleed the air out of the lines.

During this process I got huge air bubbles in this spare container of fluid and then a big glob of dirty fluid. But the top worked for two or three more weeks and then the seal on the reservoir blew out.

I got a reseal kit from Hydro-E-Electric. This kit came with all the seals I needed plus a new plug and three new rubber mounts for the pump. The pump came apart easily and the only problem I had was trying to get the motor's seal out of the housing, until I removed the motor from the pump housing. Then this seal popped out easily. I also found it was convenient to clean out the reservoir at that point. Still a lot of sludge in there.

Anyway it took a few minutes to replace all the seals and everything went back together easy, then I redid the bleeding process.

Other than the contortions I had to go through to get the pump off the mount, I would rate this job a 3 out of ten in terms of difficulty.

JD

[Guest 70 Electra]

My 1960 uses brake fluid ("Delco Supreme 11"), whereas my 1970 uses ATF ("Dexron" or "Type A", according to manual).

Not sure when the made the switch, but would not recommend mixing the two fluids, or switching to ATF in a pump designed for brake fluid. I would suggest using what is already in there, whichever it is.

(Remember what oil products do to rubber in a brake system....I suspect they will do same to seals in conv top system, if it is one that is designed only for brake fluid)

[JKASZ326]

Thanks for the many good tips guys. I have pulled the motor and taken it apart. There is some rust inside. Probably not a good sign. When I hook it up to a battery it does click and the inner

windings are pulled to the outer windings. I think the problem is in the spring loaded "brushes" in the "cap" part. Going to fool around with it a little this weekend. May have to replace the motor at about $220.00.

Does anyone know if the Fisher Body Manuals cover convertible tops? I know these manuals cover things like doors, panels, glass/channels and interiors, but what about convertible tops?

Many thanks,

Jay Hertz

Midway, KY

[JohnD1956]

The information I posted was from my Fisher Service manual for the 69. You might try calling the hydro e lectric place and inquiring which fluid to use. I do agree that you should never mix the different types of fluids. I should have taken pictures of my pump and motor when I had it apart...The manual showed an explosion diagram of the pump and reservoir. It was not too descriptive.

[imported_buick5563]

Hi Jay,

I am not sure if the Fisher body manual has any info on the conv. top, but the 1963 Buick body manual has everything you will need to get it running right. You can almost always find them on ebay.

I had to buy pistons and a new motor for my 63 Wildcat. Hydro Electric I believe will not warrant their stuff if you use anything but ATF. Yes the red will stain, but brake fluid will take the paint off of anything. The body manual is easy to understand but there is a lot of trial and error involved in lining the top up correctly. Also, if you still have the seats in your car cover them well or you will definitely get whichever fluid you decide to use on the seats while refilling. One last thing, the replacement pump you buy has three legs instead of four, so you will have to drill a new hole for the altered pump. No one will ever see it so don't worry.

Good luck,

Mike