Restorer32 Posted June 19, 2006 Share Posted June 19, 2006 In the case of a commercial vehicle, is a judge allowed to require an exhibitor to open a closed compartment (not a trunk) or tilt a seat forward to prove that there is a spare tire present? How about if the spare is totally enclosed in a sidemount cover? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest John W. Harvey Posted June 19, 2006 Share Posted June 19, 2006 Not the way I understand it to be............ They are supposed to judge the vehicle as presented. If you can't see it........... you assume it is there and correct.John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ex98thdrill Posted June 19, 2006 Share Posted June 19, 2006 Our woodie has the spare tire behind the driver's seat behind a vinyl cover that is snapped to a frame. If they've never made us unsnap everything to show the judges the tire, then I can't see where they could do that with you.My answer is in agreement with John's that the answer is no, they can't judge the tire if it is not in plain view, but the rulebook can be downloaded off of this website. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
novaman Posted June 19, 2006 Share Posted June 19, 2006 My reply is the same as the other guys. The only things required to be opened are the hood, trunk and a door so those areas can be seen. Other than that, you shouldn't have to open or dissemble any thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Restorer32 Posted June 20, 2006 Author Share Posted June 20, 2006 Can someone give me the e-mail address for the Head of Judging? I need to file a complaint. More like a concern I quess. First time I ever had a judge demand to see our spare. All three vehicles in the class (37-Professional Cars) were asked to tilt their seats front and open closed compartments or move curtains to "prove" they had a spare. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest John W. Harvey Posted June 20, 2006 Share Posted June 20, 2006 Randy Rutherford is VP of Class Judging.......... Remember to be nice to Randy....... he is not the guilty party!Randy Rutherford2925 Lower Seese Hill Rd. Canadensis, PA 18325rrutherford@usa.netJohn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Restorer32 Posted June 20, 2006 Author Share Posted June 20, 2006 I understand that some judges have their own interpretations of the rules. I have 50 plus credits myself. I just thought the incident should be brought to someons's attention in the interest of fairness. The outcome won't affect our score either way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest John W. Harvey Posted June 20, 2006 Share Posted June 20, 2006 It is something that can and should be covered in the annual judging school....... I will mention it to Fred Young.John <img src="http://forums.aaca.org/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" /> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter J.Heizmann Posted June 20, 2006 Share Posted June 20, 2006 In Class 25-D Sports Cars, I too was requested to show the spare. No problem as it looks great. Probably a lot easier for me with a TR6 than other vehicles, so I do appreciate where you are coming from.I agree with John Harvey that your concerns should be addressed for the future. Please give Randy and Fred a little time to settle in after the AGNM and I am confident your questions will be answered. Regards,Peter J... <img src="http://forums.aaca.org/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rick Lay Posted June 21, 2006 Share Posted June 21, 2006 Page 17 of the 2006 "Official Judging Manual" states: "Do not remove components to inspect other components, i.e.: remove a seat to inspect a battery." The beginning of the sentence (Do not...) should make things pretty clear and not subject to other interpretation. We stress this in judging school and in the CJE classes. Obviously the message remains lost on a few and it is those few who, through error, cast doubts on the rest of us. Rick LayAssistant Chairman - Judges Training. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R W Burgess Posted June 21, 2006 Share Posted June 21, 2006 Rick, I could never consider myself an expert on judging, but wouldn't an inexpensive judge's manuel at hand on all show fields prevent these things from happening?Wayne Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
novaman Posted June 21, 2006 Share Posted June 21, 2006 One of the things usally mentioned in the judging school is that you should have your judging manual with you on the show field. I had a question come up on my team, we checked my judging manual then asked the owner for documention. I was thinking about this case here and with the fact we were short judges there is the possiblity that the team judging the professional was completely unfimialar with the class. As for the moving the seat to see the spare, I agree that was wrong. As for asking to see in the rear compartment of these flower cars, there is a gate there similar to one on a wagon except side hinged like a hearse. I being unfamialar with the class probably would be excepting to be able to see inside there too. That would be where I'd ask the team captain about hoping he would be more fimialar with the class and know whether we are to look there or not. In this case the team captain may not have had experince with the class and not known how to handle it, treated the large rear compartment like a trunk on a passenger car. How is it handled with ambalances and hearses? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Restorer32 Posted June 21, 2006 Author Share Posted June 21, 2006 I agree that the rear of flower cars and hearses should be judged same as a 4 door sedan. No problem there. We're proud to show the interior. In the case of the flower car we were showing Saturday the spare is carried in a totally enclosed compartment under the bed of the vehicle along with the casket gurney. The judge in question seemed to think that he just HAD to see that spare. We're not arguing over points but we do like to see a level playing field. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rick Lay Posted June 21, 2006 Share Posted June 21, 2006 Every good judge should have his/her current judging manual with them at the start of judging. We tell this to all our new apprentices at the start of apprentice training. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
novaman Posted June 21, 2006 Share Posted June 21, 2006 Sorry, I misunderstood your post. The way I read it, it sounded like a tire issue and a compartment issue. My bad.It sounds like the guy just didn't know better. Not to try to defend him in any way becuase his request was wrong, but it could be possible that he is use to seeing the spare if he normally judges production cars of the 60's/70's as a good number of them have the spares exposed. The team captain should have corrected him though. Sometimes it is hard and you depend on your teammates to assist you when you end up in a unfimialar class. I normally put in for late 40's/early 50's and jump to early 60's as these are the cars I am fimailar with. At Dover we were short judges. I wound up in cars from the 70's and this senerio might have happened to this guy too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ex98thdrill Posted June 30, 2006 Share Posted June 30, 2006 Very true Rick. The sad part is that when people make errors like that, it can give all of us a black eye. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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