Jump to content

Recommended Posts

Posted

I need a routing diagram for 55 olds holiday 324 v8. I think the previuos owner disconnected the vacuum lines and put it back together wrong. car runs OK but the windshield wipers will not oscillate with both lines connected. If I disconnect the bottom hose and plug it they work a little. The motor is good. I removed it and connected to an air compressor line.

Posted

If I can remember correctly the vacumn lines go from the manifold to one port on the top of the fuel pump and then goes from the other to the wiper motor,the fuel pumps are a dual diaphram with the top diaphram used for keeping somewhat the same vacumn to the wiper motor so it would not slow down too much. Jeff

Posted

junkyardjeff is correct but you need to keep the lines going to the right pipe on top of the pump. The Vacuum inlet pipe is the one that is closest to the engine block. That pipe is the one that is connected to the wiper. The other one or outlet pipe is connected to the manifold.

If you need to know how to test the pump diaphragm let me know, I can give you the test.

Good luck

Ron

  • 3 years later...
Guest BobOlds
Posted (edited)

Could someone identify which of the fittings on the attached picture of the vacuum side of the fuel pump goes to the wiper motor and which comes from the carburetor base? It also seems odd to me that there would be a shut off valve on the vacuum pump. Is this correct?

Thanks,

Bob

Somehow the picture ended up horizontal. It should be rotated 90 degrees to the right.

post-47685-143138171532_thumb.jpg

Edited by BobOlds
picture explanation (see edit history)
Guest Olds88_1956
Posted

Kind of late to the discussion.... but that is not the correct fuel/vac pump. It should be a "4317"

Guest BobOlds
Posted

The block that the pump is on is a 1950, not '55. Is there a reason that this pump will not work on a 1950? This is not a restoration as in ever to be judged. I believe I got the vacuum hook up question answered by a model year advisor. Thanks for looking.

Bob

  • 2 months later...
Guest Shapcars
Posted

I am trying to figure out the same ques for my 54..where lines go to make the wipre work. There is a hard line from fule pump that slits to rubber 1 going tot he top inlet of wiper moter...no idea where other one goes. There is an outlet on the bottom, nothing attached. Do you have any pics or canu draw me a diagram? Thanks!

  • 10 months later...
Guest sweed_olds
Posted

Hi...and sorry for the bump and semi hijack :o

I got a 55 with a electronic fuel pump fitted and my wipers don't work.

Now...that don't bother me that much but the Swedish vehicle inspection all of a sudden(they have let it pass the last 10 years) failed it at my latest inspection.

The wiper motor has got a vacuum line going to it from somewhere behind the carb and the wipers move about half way up the window.

Do you guys think a clean, some lube and making some new gaskets for the motor would solve my problem and let me enjoy my sweet ride again?

Posted

Sweed, there are electric wiper conversions made for 55-57 Chevrolets. I know of a couple people who have adapted those to 1957 Oldsmobiles. These may also fit 55-56 Olds and Buick and would be a good upgrade from your current vacuum wiper system.

The vacuum wiper motors are fairly easy to rebuild. Getting to them in the car might be the trick.

Guest Jim_Edwards
Posted (edited)
Hi...and sorry for the bump and semi hijack :o

I got a 55 with a electronic fuel pump fitted and my wipers don't work.

Now...that don't bother me that much but the Swedish vehicle inspection all of a sudden(they have let it pass the last 10 years) failed it at my latest inspection.

The wiper motor has got a vacuum line going to it from somewhere behind the carb and the wipers move about half way up the window.

Do you guys think a clean, some lube and making some new gaskets for the motor would solve my problem and let me enjoy my sweet ride again?

Your problem may not be the wiper motor. Your car originally came with a double action fuel pump which provided vacuum of the correct pull for the wipers to function. Obviously an electric fuel pump provides no vacuum and the manifold vacuum is likely not correct for the wiper motor.

Electric conversion is a solution, but a rather costly one. In the late 1950's and early 1960's General Electric produced conversion 2 speed wiper motors for many cars and there are still many of them floating around. There is a company who sells on ebay which refurbishes them, but be prepared to pay something around $275 U.S. maybe more. I run one of those refurbished conversions on my '58 Mercury and it works fine.

Probably the cheapest way to fix the problem is with a correct double action fuel pump. There is one of those on ebay now for $139.99

1955 56 57 58 Oldsmobile new double action fuel pump - eBay (item 400202671581 end time Apr-13-11 21:13:57 PDT)

It might be wise to look for a rebuild kit if you by this pump as it probably will need a refreshing of the diaphragms, if not now sometime soon.

Good luck,

Jim

Edited by Jim_Edwards (see edit history)
Guest sweed_olds
Posted

Thanks for the answers!

Yeah i know that it came with a vacuum fuel pump(in fact its still on the engine, just not hooked up to the fuel system), and i also think that the manifold vacuum might not be enough to get proper wiper action...but i don't need that, just need them to work good enough to get trough the inspection :P

I took the pump apart yesterday and its dirtyyyyyyyyy inside. almost felt like it was sand in it :eek:, so I'm gonna give it a good clean and make some new gaskets.

What should I lube it up with? silicone spray, white lithium grease or something else?

If a clean don't work I guess electric is the way to go, found a couple of kits...but almost $500 with shipping to Sweden, that's no good :S I think I'm going to diy something from a boat wiper motor if just the angels match up kinda good

Posted

hi sweed, i have a 1953 pontiac that also had vacuum wipers, and even with a light throttle, the wipers would either slow down or stop completely. all i did was buy a 1955-57 chevy 12 volt electric wiper motor, it mounted the same way the vacuum motor did, i had to move the horns up to the radiator support. show me a picture close up of your vacuum motor mounting location on your old's firewall, that will tell me if you can do what i did. charles coker, 1953 pontiac tech advisor.

Guest pete324rock
Posted

Make sure the windshield is super clean also helps and it would be better if it was wet in the inspection....that stuff they put on windshields to repel rain works and is slippery. Original wipers work so may as well fix them.

Guest sweed_olds
Posted (edited)

Pontiac: Yeah I will throw up some pics when I find the camera :rolleyes:

Pete: I tried that and it helped, but not close to enough

But I think I have found out why they don't work!

I cleaned the bowl out last night and around half of the inside of the bowl is corroded and feels like sandpaper, so I'm going to take some chrome polish and try to polish it out.

I think that will do it

Edited by sweed_olds (see edit history)
Guest Jim_Edwards
Posted
Pontiac: Yeah I will throw up some pics when I find the camera :rolleyes:

Pete: I tried that and it helped, but not close to enough

But I think I have found out why they don't work!

I cleaned the bowl out last night and around half of the inside of the bowl is corroded and feels like sandpaper, so I'm going to take some chrome polish and try to polish it out.

I think that will do it

Are you speaking of the cavity in the wiper motor or some other "bowl?"

Jim

Guest sweed_olds
Posted

Yeah i think so...bowl was the closest thing i could come up with in English(Not my native tongue) ;)

The part that the arrow points to in the picture

post-44557-143138489216_thumb.jpg

Guest Jim_Edwards
Posted
Yeah i think so...bowl was the closest thing i could come up with in English(Not my native tongue) ;)

The part that the arrow points to in the picture

As someone mentioned earlier, there is nothing wrong with your English. You have a better command of the language than many who have it as their native language and I'll guarantee is is better than 99.99% of us can communicate in Swedish.:D

With that said, I don't know that polishing the inside of that portion of the wiper motor will improve function, but there is every likelihood that a liberal dose of WD-40 or similar lubricant to moving parts may well improve things along with a fresh set of wiper blades.

Jim

Guest pete324rock
Posted

With vacuum wipers,everything must be in top shape and they will work ok. For every part that is not up to top shape,the total result equals really poor wipers. The vacuum/fuel pump must be leak free....and there are many ways to leak.

Guest sweed_olds
Posted

Jim: Thanks :D i don't think just lube will do it, the inside of the cavity feels like a 120-160 grit sandpaper. On the smooth parts the paddle moves really easy but as soon as it hits the rough parts its gets hard to move. maybe polish is the wrong way to go but it needs to be smoothed out, go over it with 2000 wet&dry maybe?

Pete: sadly I know that :D my car is in no way a show car...more of a rock n roll cruiser(despite the color,white&coral :D) and there has been attempts at restoring it in the past(at least at two different times) by people of different skill and there are some strange solutions in some places. And some corners cut, like with the primer and paint on the hood witch has shrunk and cracked at the "lip" of the hood :(

I found a empty hose connection at the back of the engine last night, right in the middle and high up on the back side of the engine...should there be a vacuum line there? and to what should i go to?

Guest Jim_Edwards
Posted (edited)
Jim: Thanks :D i don't think just lube will do it, the inside of the cavity feels like a 120-160 grit sandpaper. On the smooth parts the paddle moves really easy but as soon as it hits the rough parts its gets hard to move. maybe polish is the wrong way to go but it needs to be smoothed out, go over it with 2000 wet&dry maybe?

Pete: sadly I know that :D my car is in no way a show car...more of a rock n roll cruiser(despite the color,white&coral :D) and there has been attempts at restoring it in the past(at least at two different times) by people of different skill and there are some strange solutions in some places. And some corners cut, like with the primer and paint on the hood witch has shrunk and cracked at the "lip" of the hood :(

I found a empty hose connection at the back of the engine last night, right in the middle and high up on the back side of the engine...should there be a vacuum line there? and to what should i go to?

An open vacuum hose nipple throws all sorts of things off, maybe way off, including the operation of the wipers. I don't have a manual on your model car so I'm not sure what that vacuum fitting should be going to. I'd temporarily plug it until you can get a copy of the vacuum circuits for the car from someplace.

Of course plugging it is going to eventually require a carburetor adjustment and a timing adjustment for things to be right. If the version of the hydra-matic on the car had a vacuum modulator that is probably the vacuum source for it. If not, I haven't a clue without some research.

Another oddball thought, does the car have a vacuum motor operated trunk release? If yes and it isn't working that may have been for a vacuum line to the switch inside the glove box. Any holes in the firewall that aren't filled with something? How about windshield washer motor/pump? Just rambling a bit trying to think of possibilities for what a vacuum line connected at that point might have operated.

Jim

Edited by Jim_Edwards (see edit history)
Posted

looks like you can do what i did, simply mount the 12 volt 55-57 chevy wiper motor, hook up the wire control, and run the hot wire with an inline fuse to your fuse box. charles coker, 1953 pontiac tech advisor.

Guest rsd9699
Posted

Good close up pictures of the various parts like, the lines, fuel/vac pump and the "new" vacuum port, otherwise it is a guessing game without all the information.

Ron

As Pontiac1953 has stated, the Chevy is a nearly direct swap-in = I did that to my driver 56 way back in 1972. Two speeds - not variable like the vacuum wipers - so I did not convert my other 56 Olds.

I rebuild all types of Trico wiper motors - these motors are really good and powerful. The roughness in the case needs to be smoothed. The motor will have the power to move across the roughness but it will wear out the seal on the paddle - expensive - use a good synthetic grease on the paddle and valves and gaskets.

Guest rsd9699
Posted

Also - there are aftermarket electric vacuum pumps that will supply vacuum long enough for an inspection. There are even a few belt driven vacuum pumps - Govmo used them on the Olds diesels. I have seen BMW's with electric vacuum pumps - no idea as to what they used them far - so check with new car dealerships.

Ron

Guest sweed_olds
Posted (edited)

so got the motor on the car now but of course i don't have a good battery so I'm just waiting to charge up two old and not so good ones so i can get it started and see if i have worked wonders:D...however, i got her to run and had the wiper switch in what i think is the "wipe" position and nothing happened but it just ran for 10sec then stalled and the battery was dead again.

If it don't work electric here i come, chevy one or new replacement kit...had her sitting in my garage the past 3years(not just because failed inspection but a bit failed dedication from my side and other projects) and really want to get her on the road again

Found the camera today :D here is some pics of the mounting plate and the empty nipple

post-44557-143138491496_thumb.jpg

post-44557-14313849154_thumb.jpg

Edited by sweed_olds (see edit history)
Guest sweed_olds
Posted

No wonders worked :(

I'm waiting for a shipping quote on a conversion kit so i guess that i buy that if the shipping's not crazy expensive

Guest rsd9699
Posted

Well - I need pictures of everything assembled in order to help you. A picture of a mounting plate simply is of no value in solving your current problem but it a mounting place that will accept a Chevy electric wiper motor.

A series of pictures with EVERYTHING mounted and with a pointer tracing the various lines at the wiper motor over the engine, to the vacuum pump, from the vacuum pump to the manifold (or carb). The wiper control cable mounted and adjusted (do you have a shop manual?).

Ron

I have a picture of a 56 caddy disassembled showing the three major parts. The engine needs to be running for more than 10 seconds to ensure a reasonable vacuum supply is available to the wipers. Get the engine problems solved first, then with a steady 16 to 18 inches of vacuum, we can work on solving the wiper problem. Stick a cork in the "open" hole and see if the engine will run. Power brakes run from a port at the rear of carb. Does the car have power brakes? I would get a good battery or borrow one until the engine runs trouble free.

post-70687-143138492288_thumb.jpg

Guest sweed_olds
Posted

the engine runs great it's just that the battery that's shot so i could not get it started(started right up but stalled and no juice in the battery to crank it again) until last night, I had it running for a minute or two and no function what so ever.

Yeah ill might pull the motor apart and take some pics but as it is now I'm thinking electric.

Yes the car has PB, works like crazy to...stops better then my passat with 320mm discs(or it feels that way since there is no seat belts to hold you back in the olds :D)

The line that goes to the wiper motor comes from the back of the carb from a connecting block

Guest Jim_Edwards
Posted

Given your description of the engine only running a very short time it would appear there are more issues than just the battery or the wiper motor. Given the car has been sitting as long as you indicate you have a lot of things to go through. If it were my car I'd disconnect all vacuum lines from the engine and plug the nipples the lines attached to. You may have more vacuum leaks than you realize, not to mention fuel delivery related issues. It's hard to isolate engine issues without basically isolating the engine so to speak.

I suspect you may well have vacuum leaks around the carburetor, the choke is probably not functioning correctly, and there may be crud in the fuel. You've got to get those issues dealt with before any vacuum operated accessory or even the engine itself will run correctly.

Once the engine is straightened out, I'd do a wholesale replacement of all vacuum lines regardless of what they go to.

Jim

Guest sweed_olds
Posted

oh no, the car runs good...i just explain things bad :P It was just the initial start-up that it started and stalled, as soon as both batteries where charged it started and idled as good as ever. The reason that i just ran it a short time is that it is in the garage and i got a steep hill up to my garage that's covered in ice this time of the year(I live a fair bit north of any of you i guess, just a bit south of the polar circle) so i cant get it outside yet.

Guest rsd9699
Posted

Still you could raise the door knee high to let in fresh air and wear a coat - The wiper motor does NOT run directly off the intake vacuum as originally manufactured. Yes it should run off intake vacuum if there is any present.

Two questions are 1) do you have a shop manual, 2) is the wiper cpntrol cable attached and aligned per the manual.

Did you have the slide valve that the control cable attaches to apart?

With a short piece of vacuum line you can literally suck on the hose with it attached to the vacuum motor. If it is relatively air tight, then it is likely in the off position. Push the valve to the other extreme and suck and the motor should move some.

Again - you have a camera and it only takes a few minutes to snap 10 or so picures of everything pointed out.

I shot over 200 pictures of my brake job on one wheel today to record everything from most every angle. On this car so far over 3,000 pictures and counting. Digital is cheap as is the storage.

Good luck with your Olds.

Ron

Guest sweed_olds
Posted
Still you could raise the door knee high to let in fresh air and wear a coat - The wiper motor does NOT run directly off the intake vacuum as originally manufactured. Yes it should run off intake vacuum if there is any present.

Two questions are 1) do you have a shop manual, 2) is the wiper cpntrol cable attached and aligned per the manual.

Did you have the slide valve that the control cable attaches to apart?

With a short piece of vacuum line you can literally suck on the hose with it attached to the vacuum motor. If it is relatively air tight, then it is likely in the off position. Push the valve to the other extreme and suck and the motor should move some.

Again - you have a camera and it only takes a few minutes to snap 10 or so picures of everything pointed out.

I shot over 200 pictures of my brake job on one wheel today to record everything from most every angle. On this car so far over 3,000 pictures and counting. Digital is cheap as is the storage.

Good luck with your Olds.

Ron

Yeah tried that and i got no movement or resistance what so ever in either of the positions of the valve...so JPL street rods got some of my hard earned cash for a electric wiper motor(took the easy way out:o)

Guest Jim_Edwards
Posted
Yeah tried that and i got no movement or resistance what so ever in either of the positions of the valve...so JPL street rods got some of my hard earned cash for a electric wiper motor(took the easy way out:o)

Probably the best choice, especially if you ever get caught in a rain unexpectedly. Having wipers that won't work, or barely work in a rain is much like burned out headlamps after the Sun goes down. Not good!

Jim

  • 1 month later...
Guest shadinni
Posted

how do you test the vac, diaphram on the fuel pump i have a 57 olds.

Guest rsd9699
Posted

With the engine vacuum line disconnected - engine running - use either a gage or your finger over the vacuum line - there should 16 inches or better with a gage or if it sucks your finger into the line - it okay.

Ron

  • 2 years later...
Guest idel0817
Posted
I am trying to figure out the same ques for my 54..where lines go to make the wipre work. There is a hard line from fule pump that slits to rubber 1 going tot he top inlet of wiper moter...no idea where other one goes. There is an outlet on the bottom, nothing attached. Do you have any pics or canu draw me a diagram? Thanks![/QU

Hello - if there is vacuum at the carburetor outlet 't' one line goes from there to the port on the fuel pump closest to the engine.

The other line from the other pump port to the wiper motor vacuum pipe usually on the left of the motor. Not the short breather pipe in the very front. Leave that one open.

I took PB (power blaster) spray (similar to WD40) and sprayed the wiper motor vac inlet pipe while working it by hand until I could hear the diaphragm pumping inside the motor. It is now working pretty well. I will adjust the cables soon for a more correct operation. Good luck

  • 5 years later...
Posted

Hi, hope this discussion could be put back to life. Like Sweed, I am also from Europe and have little to no recourse to expert advice on my 1954 Olds 88 (4 door base sedan).

 

After 1.5 year of work, we got her running and boy is she beautiful... Rebuilt almost everything, inter Alia the power brake booster and master+wheel brake cylinders. The engine runs fine, brakes work well. I have the same situation with the fuel pump as someone here, the previous owner disconnected the fuel/vacuum pump and installed the tank-submerged electric pump instead. I have installed the combined fuel/vacuum pump but it is still unconnected to the rest of the system.

 

Now, I cannot get the wipers working at all (the right one moves, the left does not), and there is something strange when the car is in reverse - the brakes seem to work 30% as compared to what they do when the car is in Dr or S gear. What also does not work is the windscreen washer. I have not recreated the full vacuum system as no one knows where to connect which hose. 

 

I can can see in plain sight that I have ports (dunno if out or in) open on the wiper motor, vacuum pump, and the air cleaner, Could not find the port on the gearbox, supposedly there is one.

 

The transmission shifts upwards smoothly from 0 to 1, from 1 to 2, and from 3 to 4. The 2 to 3 shifting is rough, with a loud thump. Downwards, shifts from 3 to 2 and 2 to 1 are similarly rough. In either case (up- or downwards) the thump is smoother if the engine is on higher revs.

 

I would highly  appreciate the answers to the following questions:

1. Could it be that the vacuum is the cause that the brakes work poorly when in reverse?

2. Could it be that the vacuum is the cause of rough gear shifting?

3. Can someone please draw the full vacuum diagram, or literally list the vacuum lines and describe where each of them connects?

4. Any clever advice on any of the issues described here will be most appreciated. Also, any other advice is most welcome. 

 

Thanks!

 

 

 

 

Posted

hi, nothing connects to the dual range hydra-matic in a vacuum way. just two control rods and levers, one for gear selection that you choose at the steering column, and the other is throttle pressure, which will delay a upshift according to how much throttle your foot is asking of the engine by how much you're stepping on the gas pedal. there's a vacuum hose that connects the power brake booster to the vacuum lines that goes to a vacuum reserve tank, a check valve, and to the vacuum source on the intake manifold or carburetor, i'm guessing that perhaps when you shift into reverse, the linkage may be touching or even pinching the hose to the booster, that may not be the case. 

 

carburetor or intake manifold-------------------one way check valve---------------vacuum tee fitting---------------reserve tank-----------power brake vacuum booster.

 

the rough 2-3 upshift may be due to too much throttle pressure, but you may need a band adjustment performed too.

  • 3 weeks later...
Posted

Thanks, Pontiac. The transmission is being disassembled as we speak. Meanwhile I also bought the tranny master rebuild kit so I hope the rough shifting will be taken care of.

 

Re vacuum lines: OK, I get how it works for the power brake booster.  

What about the line that ends in the wiper motor? Where does it come from? 

 

Are there any other lines which I am not aware of?

 

Sorry if my questions are dumb, but that's how it is... here in Europe there are hardly any cars using vacuum (some old Mercedes and Mazda models, perhaps).

 

Thank you again.

I attach a photo of my 88 taken a couple of weeks ago, still with CA plates :)

 

IMG-3b210a4db0e90e6cf284088e7c70abfc-V.jpg

Posted

I think there is a line coming of the carburetor that runs to a tee. One of the tees runs to the wipers, the other end runs to the vacuum pump on top of the fuel pump. Theoretically, when the engine lacks vacuum, the vacuum pump is supposed to compensate.

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
×
×
  • Create New...