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showoff your rod at Horace Heidt event


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By "ROD", do you mean "...bring your RIDE?" (That's OK).<P>However, if you mean bring your "STREET ROD", then I can assure you this is the wrong thread to invite participation.<P>I'm certain you will get some good comments shortly from the DF'ers if you meant street rod.<P>Regards, Peter J.

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frown.gif I am going to be slammed on this by some Valley dude, but the entire twenty years I lived in or near the San Fernando Valley (where Sherman Oaks is) I got the impression that nobody understood the concept of restoration. An old car was only good if it was highly modified.<P>I doubt this poster knows (or probably cares) about the difference between a "rod" and a authentic vintage/antique car.
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Be our guest at a celebration in honor of Horace Heidt and His Musical Knights - a famous big band leader from the 30's, 40's, and 50's. We'll provide you with food, fun, and great entertainment if you bring your rod for us to show off. The event is scheduled for May 26, 2001 at the historic Horace Heidt Estates in Sherman Oaks, CA. Contact Tamara at (818) 995-6827 or email at tamara@bigbands.com if interested. Thanks.

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Here we go with the snobbery again. Granted, this isn't the forum to promote a hot rod show, but it's a change of pace, and if I lived closer I'd attend. The irony of the hot rod debate is, many of you guys would not find parts available for your cars if it were not for rodders removing them from their cars and selling them to you. A few posts back someone asked what prompted us to join the AACA. The reason I joined was to get a space at Hershey so I can sell all my parts to you. Name calling doesn't accomplish anything but reinforce the idea that this club is comprised of a bunch of grumpy old geezers. See you at Hershey, and bring lots of CASH!

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Whitefield,<P>You're right about one thing, this is not the place to promote Hot Rods! This is the AACA and for some sad reason, people have a hard time accepting the fact that its okay in life to enjoy only original and restored vehicles as they were when new and have a club devoted towards it. I have both custom and stock cars and belong to clubs on both sides of the fence, so I feel I have the room here to speak my mind. I respect this membership for not wanting to see the old cars chopped up and I don't feel they are snobs for it. It's a shame the only reason you joined the AACA is to profit from its membership. As for your statement about not finding parts if not for the rodders, I feel you have that backwards. I think the AACA is a first class club and this site here is one of the best and most helpful that I read. Keep it going AACA!

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Whitefield ~ Do you have the cojones to give us your space numbers so that we can all come rushing, panting with cash in hand to purchase your wonderful parts. <P>You are not a hobbiest. You are a sleezy profiteer who brings nothing to our organization but your own brand of greed.<BR>If it isn't greed, then what other reason could you possibly have for associating with a bunch of grumpy, old geezers. It certainly can't be that you respect the AACA and what it stands for.<P>Now that is just my opinion, but I don't think I am wrong.

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Tod ~ Call it mud if you wish, but it can also be regarded as fact. I realize that I am politically incorrect, but no one ever accused me of being afraid to speek my mind. <P>This guy Whitefield takes the opportunity to use the AACA forum to ridicule the AACA and what it stands for, to call us a bunch of "grumpy old geezers" [a group to which I no doubt belong in the minds of some] and ridicule us about how he is going to gouge us when we buy his parts in OUR [AACA's] flea market.<P>And I see no reason to be polite when addressing someone like this. That is one thing wrong with today's society. We are not supposed to challenge anyone for fear that we will offend someone's sensitivities. Well, he offended MY sensitivities and I reserve the right to respond in kind. And for what it is worth, I responded in my own name and fully identified.<P>Maybe I have been in Wyoming too long, and have lost touch with my wishey washey side.<P>hvs<P><p>[This message has been edited by hvs (edited 04-02-2001).]

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smile.gif hvs ~~ I believe, especially on re-reading the posts, that the first mud was slung by me.<P>The statement by Whitefield that "this club is comprised of a bunch of grumpy old geezers" certainly raised the ante. <BR>While I am frequently grumpy and I am getting older, I hope I am not yet (or ever?) ready for the adjective geezer. smile.gif<P>It is also a little unsettling to have someone openly admit that they joined the club solely to profit from the members.<P>It may be best, though, to "turn the other cheek" and let the true character of each show through their actions and posts. In this case Whitefield loses. And also, to a certain extent, so do I in that I was unable to contain my feelings on this issue. frown.gif
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Clarification: My "idiot" comment was aimed at all those people who fail to investigate a forum before posting. If this person had done even a tiny bit of looking around on the AACA site, she would have realized this was the wrong place to post. Or she could have written it differently, to show she knew that it wasn't a "rod" site, but appealing to those crossover members who might be interested.<P>My apologies to any "rodders" I may have inadvertently offended in the process.<P>Jan K.

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Howard, when you right your right. It's only my opinion but antique car clubs are for antique cars and street rod clubs are for street rods. That seems fairly obvious which cars belong in which club but a lot of people just can't figure it out. Perhaps they really are clueless but one things for sure, they will continue to frustrate all of the antique car purists because they like to.

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I'm missing something. confused.gif<P>Hot rods for a big band celebration? What, no surf music? No Doo-Wop? Not even a little rockabilly? I occasionally dj car cruises (I have a pretty good collection of all of the above), I've never had a request for "Begin the Beguine" from a guy with a rat motor.<P>This is an odd mix. I have a feeling Tamara is actually interested in restored '30s and '40s cars for this event, but not being a car person was unfamiliar with the correct terms. I suggest that someone from that area email her and get the skinny on what she has in mind. It sounds like a nice day to me, but I'm about 3500 miles away.<P>As for people like Whitefield (gee, that narrows the list down) who detect arrogance and snobbery on the part of car restorers, there is a very easy explanation for that. After you've been in this game for a while, you notice something about street rods: they dissappear after about 10-15 years. Unlike a restored car, a street rod becomes obsolete over time. It also is a very personal expression for it's owner, and (financially) worth far more to it's builder than to anyone else. After you've seen a few street rod owners pass on and their rods essentially discarded (usually remade or scavenged for pieces that haven't gone out of style yet), you realize that long term the production of street rods represents the largest source of loss of what may be incredibly rare and irreplacable working material. For every headlight lens or dashboard that was saved by street rodders a dozen other "worthless" parts are discarded, or modified for temporary use in the brief life the rod will have.<P>Then again, I may be wrong. Perhaps there's a huge market out there for 1979-era sparkle-painted, dingle-balled, TA 6.6 engined, air shocked, ET magged, velour-packed, mural bedecked, chrome chain steering-wheeled, hood pinned, annonymously built '40 Fords with state-of-the-art 8-track sound. If you work hard selling it you might even get 8 grand for it. God knows noone would ever pay good money for a meticulously built authentic '40 Ford.<P>p.s. I'm the guy on this forum who argues <I> for </I> the acceptance of limited car modificatons. rolleyes.gif

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Poor tamara. She is probably just a nice young publicity chick working for an outfit promoting the big band sound. Probably drives a Neon too.<P>For people who have no real interest in antique motor vehicles they are all about the same. Hot rod, antique or classic.<BR>Basically they do not know that all '32 Fords and '57 Chevies were not sold new looking like the one they just saw at a hot rod show.. And a "classic" is any old car they think is neat, as in my mother has a classic '90 Buick riviera.<P>Nuff said.

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DAVE.<P>I have always wondered whether the appeal in a hot rod is its creation by the owner and the labor of love involved in building it. You are so correct in that it is a very personal endeavor. Now the $64 question [that shows my age] Does the pleasure of creation exceed the pleasure of owning the finished product. Maybe not right away, but like you say the passage of time has its effect. confused.gif <P>I know that when I was in business there were certain things which I created that gave me extreme pleasure in creation, but left me cold when it came to turning it into merchandise for sale. And THAT product could be sold at a profit.<P> hvs

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hvs,<P> If you calmly go back and reread my post you will see that I did not call anyone anything, and that I was quite restrained. What I said was "name calling reinforces the IDEA that the club is comprised of grumpy old geezers". You must be aware that there are countless folks with old cars who do not join the club because of this perception. If you consider those words harsh, in my opinion, your skin is a bit thin.<BR> Because I expressed an interest in Tamara's show you assume I am a hot rodder. Wrong again. My four cars ranging from 1938-1970 are all restored and low milage originals. I do happen to enjoy early jazz, however, and if I was closer and there wasn't still four feet of snow on the ground, I'd enjoy driving my 38 coupe there to show them what the real thing looks like... And I'll bet they would be happy to see it.<BR> As for being a capitalist... you bet! ... Just like the thousands of other vendors at Hershey. I don't lug my parts trailer 900 miles, and eat and sleep out of the back of my pickup for a week for my health. It's the only AACA event I attend. At least I joined the club for the priviledge; there are hundreds selling there who haven't.<BR> <BR>But that's just MY opinion. :-)<BR>

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It seems we are degenerating in to a bunch of mud slinging.<P>I admit I am not really comfortable around people whose hobby is rodding cars. It is not my thing. So I don't go posting on hot rod sites. And there seems to be more of them around than sites devoted to preservation.<P>I also attempt to be polite when posting on sites where both restorers and rodders post. At least I have recently.<P>In my original post on this thread, I was attempting to state my feelings that the car culture in the San Fernando Valley seemed to revolve around modifying vehicles. It is one reason I was not very active in the car hobby for twenty years.<P>I find that, while there a lots of rodders here, the San Francisco Bay Area is a lot more open to preservation. You actually see well maintained original 1960s (and sometimes 1950s) cars on the streets here. In addition, there seem to be more, and more active, antique car clubs here.<P>So, in regards to the original post that started this thread: I doubt the poster knows or cares about the difference between rods and original cars. But for the purposes of a big band celebration, it probably does not matter.<P>By the way, if I still lived in Calabasas, I'd probably go to the event in the old car. It sounds like it would be fun. And I doubt that they would turn me away because the car was not rodded.

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I find these "perception" comments fascinating. It seems like there is a mistaken impression about every club we have ever belonged to, included the AACA. <P>Maybe it's time to find out exactly what these misperceptions are and brainstorm some ways to change them?<P>And for the record, I am not an old geezer and never will be. (Based purely on my perception that only men can be geezers. Please correct me if I'm wrong.) wink.gif<P>And I'm NOT looking for suggestions on what that would make me instead! smile.gif<P>Jan K.

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Tod ~ I should have looked that up in my Funk & Wagnalls. But there was no time as I was afraid AOL would shut me down and I would have had to start over. I just checked with Mr. Funk to see that I spelled his partner's name correctly. blush.gif<P>Jan ~ I have never considered myself to be an old geezer. Old phart, yes. Geezer, no. grin.gif<P>hvs, curmudgeon at large. smile.gifsmile.gif<P>Why 2 smiley faces? Think of it as a picture of Dolly Parton, to brighten our beloved forum.

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hvs,<P> In my mind the term Geezer is less related to age, but more to a sour, humorless, opinionated attitude.<BR> I hope your opinions don't reflect those of the core membership of the AACA. Do you even read what you post before you hit the submit button? You are making my point!(see definition of Geezer)<BR> You can call me a profiteer if you want. I don't mind. The fact is, I pay my $50 for a space just like you, and I make a profit selling parts just like you. "Bring lots of cash" was a gentle jab at those who posted before me knocking rodders. It was meant as humor but I guess you missed it. (see definition of Geezer) On the "Hershey Meet" thread, you said that the "robber barrons" in the town of Hershey would not be getting any of your money. It seems that only your profit making is OK, because your ideals are on such a higher plane than the rest of us.(see definition of Geezer) ...It appears that you are a hypocrite as well.<BR> <BR> I apologize to the rest of you for the tone that this thread has taken. It was not my intent to offend any of you.<BR>

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I've been on both sides of this issue. But what may I ask has happened to our love of cars? Sure the folks in this club enjoy original restorations and point judging, but does that mean we don't appreciate a pro street yenko camaro or fine custom autos? We all love cars right? I cant believe we are so stuffy as to snub our noses at an awesome looking street rod or turn in disgust to guy who drops a big block crate motor into an otherwise original 57 chevy. I like this hobby because I get to drive by people with a smile as they admire my car. I enjoy the car talk and fellowship with those who love old autos. Cant we appreciate all types of cars, or are the things said about us in magazines such as car craft true? They feel we are stuffy, and maybe they are right! Isnt a car meant to drive? Sure they look neat restored and everything, but its still a car! If it was art, walls would be built strong enough to hang them for display. In order to keep this hobby alive, we shouldnt segregate based on the way a person chooses to restore an old car. I love them all. Brass era, pre-war, big 50's classics, screaming muscle cars, and artful street rods and customs. This lady was inviting us to a fun filled event with big bands and old cars. Say thank you for the invite! Jeez is this a restrictive country club or a group of folks that enjoy old cars? Just my two cents. Oh, one more thing... If it werent for those vendors where the heck would we get those parts? Sure they rape us on occasion, but doesnt the thrill of finding that one part overide the cost for a moment? Lets have fun and enjoy ALL cars!

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Whitefield ~ I never accused you of being a capitalist. That would have been a complimentary term. I called you a profiteer [based on your own statement of "Bring lots of CASH], and that is NOT a compliment. Let us not confuse the terms.<BR>I sell at Hershey, and make money on what I sell, but I don't taunt the potential customers.<P>As for people who do not join AACA because of perception, the world is full of misperceptions. I do not belong to the Buick club because I perceive it to be a club primarily interested in more modern iron. I may be wrong, but that was the way it was when I did belong years ago. My perception that it has not changed might be wrong. So what, neither that club nor I are suffering any loss due to my absence.<P>If someone does not like AACA because of what we stand for, or because I am over 65 [and there are a lot more like me here], then they should stay away. I probably wouldn't want to belong to their club because we would have little common interest.<P>AACA cannot be all things to all people. To try to do so would destroy what we stand for.<P>Now as for a member who by his own admission participates in no activity other than to sell in the Hershey flea market, that person is a user and a taker. Nothing more.<P>hvs<P>PS: Still no cojones? No registration or space identification. How brave one can be when cloaked in anonimity.

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Whitefield, you leave me at a loss for words.<P>There is no point in trying to reason with a fool.<P>You still don't seem to have the nerve to identify yourself or your flea marker spaces.<P>You may now come back with your response. I will not bother to reply, so say anything you wish. The last word is yours. hvs<BR>

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So, is anybody going to attend the Horace Heidt big band bash to show them that we're not geezers? Even if you bring your AACA Senior car, the Southern California crowd will probably still think of it as a rod.

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Hmmmm.... I turned 34 yesterday. Do I qualify as a geezer, or am I in the Jr. class?? LOL I believe my three year old would vote geezer! I live 3000 miles from there, so I cant attend. I wonder if there will be a bubble machine there?

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I have never understood the restoration crowd's hostility toward rodders and racers. It certainly leaves little room to find common ground.<P>Bry

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Bry, A lot of the hostility is that whenever we post our preferrences on restoration we are immediately branded as old geezers or old pharts. Some of the greatest automotive designers were customizers and did their best work on their own cars and then made them into the models which were sold as stock. I also do not like the bickering between the two factions, but have come to accept it as a fact of life in this hobby.

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Guest rcirilli

My wife just came in to se what I was laughing at. Love this forum! When I was in my teens they weren't Rods they were "getting enough parts together to make a tired old body roll down the street on it's own power without anything falling off"! Rods, it our transportation regardless of what parts worked.

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Bry - not all of us restorers are hostile to racing, it's an important part of automotive history, plus it's a fun sport. The rodding thing is problematic. Some of us restorers have tolerance for rods as works of art (although some rods are pure butchery) but the perceived loss of good vehicles to rodding bothers a lot of us. And, as you know, the other side of rodding is the fact that many of the unrestored non-operating antique cars will never be restored and will just rot away eventually, so is there any harm in turning them into rods? Maybe not.

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Here's what we face every time we take our '37 Buick Century to any car event that includes rod/custom cars: Various groups of people stand right in front of us, and discuss what a great car it would be if... and they proceed to talk about how they would chop it up. <P>It wouldn't bother me if they did it out of earshot, but to stand right in front of the owner, who delights in its "showroom" condition, is not polite. I do not stand in front of their cars and complain about the beauty of the car that they "destroyed."<P>And for the record, I have nothing against rods and customs. I just see these as two separate hobbies, with contrary agendas. Personally, I would prefer that they not use restorable, drivable cars to do their customizing on, but that's only my opinion. They're entitled to their own opinion. This is a free country.<P>Jan K.

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Guest rcirilli

I think another point to bring out is that except for California most rod'ers are using kits these days. At least that is the case in Western PA. They get exactly what they want and don't have to worry about rust. Metal Rods are almost extinct.

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One thing I never could understand is how can a fiberglas body with a punched out rat big block(usually a crate engine), 400 turbo, Ford 9" rear, with air, cruise, tilt wheel, polished aluminum wheels, am-fm quad stereophonic, power windows and door locks, power seats with lumbar support, etc, etc, be called a '34 Ford or a '41 Willys? There's nothing on that car from '34 or whatever year it may be. Why aren't they called what they really are? If I put Chevy pickup sheetmetal on a Ford or Dodge rolling chassis, could that be a '34 also? <P>And if you think I'm sour grapes or an old geezer(from guiser), I have a '41 Plymouth business coupe that I'm rodding.

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Alan ~~~~~ Guise - Francois de Lorraine, 2nd, Duc de Guise, 1519-1563. Now does that mean that all of us old guisers are descendents of 16th century French nobility. cool.gif Well I'll be darned. rolleyes.gif ~ hvs<P><BR><p>[This message has been edited by hvs (edited 04-06-2001).]

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