Guest imported_Speedster Posted April 28, 2006 Share Posted April 28, 2006 I've always used 3M brand Glazing Putty for filler prior to painting but also have always had a problem with it shrinking when hardening. So I thought I would try a different brand on the 645. I have read good things about the Clausen brand and was wondering if anyone had tried their products? The one called 'Lighten-up' is the one I ordered today. Has anyone used it? I also ordered a product called 'Smooth-out' which thins and smooths any filler, to make it spread easier and makes it better for areas that don't need much filler. It's supposed to make even Bondo go on smoother, with fewer bubbles. <img src="http://forums.aaca.org/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> Anyone tried it? Thanks, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest imported_Speedster Posted April 29, 2006 Share Posted April 29, 2006 <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The key with glazing putty is to apply it in several very thin coats, allowing sufficient dry time </div></div>Yes, That's what I'm trying to eliminate. <img src="http://forums.aaca.org/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" /> I want something that will go on in ONE coat, ready to sand and paint. That's why I'm trying 'Something Completely Different'. <img src="http://forums.aaca.org/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> <img src="http://forums.aaca.org/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WCraigH Posted April 30, 2006 Share Posted April 30, 2006 I used the 3M Blue glazing putty on my recent Firebird project based upon recommendations by local friend/restorer Dean. The only problem was on the plastic (endura) bumper, NOT on metal. Just my $0.02. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest imported_Speedster Posted April 30, 2006 Share Posted April 30, 2006 Yes, the 3M Blue is the one I usually use (has finer texture) but being finer also makes it shrink more. The Green is next in texture and Red is the most course of the three. The depth of the bad spots is what determines which of the 3 is best to use. They are very good products, except for the shrinkage, requiring multiple coats. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnworden1 Posted May 2, 2006 Share Posted May 2, 2006 Most if not all of the filler manufacturers now offer a material that requires the addition of hardener and are intended to replace the old one part glazes. These new fillers are of a fine texture, spread easily and level themselves somewhat. They are easy to sand with finer grit paper and I sometimes sand them wet. They can be bought in fairly small quantities also. I think they are more suitable to paint systems that use hardened primers, colors and clear coats than the old lacquer based putty. ( putty is for plumbers ) John Worden Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Restorer32 Posted May 2, 2006 Share Posted May 2, 2006 We use Pirahna Putty from 3M. Two part, very smooth and fine consistency, sands well, no shrinkage. Just bought a case yesterday, $125.57 for 4 tubes, or was it 6?. Also bought a gallon of K36 Primer, $138.75 plus $75.60 for the hardener. When I started working on antique cars in the 70,s lacquer primer was $11/gal. Only twice in the last 10 years have we sprayed lacquer paint. Second time was yesterday to repair a door and a fender on a '38 Cadillac. Had to re-educate our painter on how to use lacquer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest imported_Speedster Posted May 2, 2006 Share Posted May 2, 2006 Yes, I checked on the 3M 2-part fillers, but are much more expensive than the Clausen. Since I've only found good reports about the Clausen, thought I would give them a try. <img src="http://forums.aaca.org/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> I've about desided that you have to use the 2-part fillers to Not have shrinkage. It seems that All the 1-part types Do shrink more, since part of the formula is evaporating when it hardens. I'd think the 2-part types would be a little more difficult to apply without waisting it, mainly when you have a lot of very small areas to fill, and having to mix it in the correct amounts for the area needed. <img src="http://forums.aaca.org/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" /> But looks like I'll find out on this car. I may have to buy it in 55 Gallon Drums, for this car. <img src="http://forums.aaca.org/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" /> <img src="http://forums.aaca.org/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Restorer32 Posted May 2, 2006 Share Posted May 2, 2006 Back in the day, when we were using lacquer based primers, fillers, and topcoats, we would finish the bodywork, apply our primer and glazing, sand to a 400 grit finish, then forget about it for a minimum of 6 weeks while everything shrank. We would then resand and topcoat. Anyone else remember color sanding with gasoline as a lubricant and doing the final polishing with cornstarch? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Restorer32 Posted May 2, 2006 Share Posted May 2, 2006 Yikes! That last post made me seem really, really old. I'm not (actually 57) just been doing this a long time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RAL923 Posted May 2, 2006 Share Posted May 2, 2006 I would recommend Evercoats Polyester Finishing Putty (#416)..It is designed for modern finishes and has a fast dry time with no pin holes.Not sure what you are trying to "correct" with glaze ,but for about 20 bucks you can buy a 30 oz container with hardner and it should be way more than you need to correct minor flaws.If you think you need more than that you may need to do more prep work Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest imported_Speedster Posted May 2, 2006 Share Posted May 2, 2006 Okay, if the Clausen products don't work out, I'll probably try the Evercoat next, altho the #416 may be thinner than what I need for this car, since they call it Extra-thin. I like those Handy-dandy squeeze bottles they are using. <img src="http://forums.aaca.org/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> <img src="http://forums.aaca.org/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> Much better than digging it out of a can. I tryed some in that type bottle several years ago, but can't remember what brand it was, and it was Way too thin for the job I was doing at the time. It just didn't fill very well, since it was so thin. <img src="http://forums.aaca.org/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" /> The spreader seemed to pull it out of the low spots that I was trying to fill. <img src="http://forums.aaca.org/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" /> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RAL923 Posted May 2, 2006 Share Posted May 2, 2006 you say that the Evercoat may be to thin? What are you trying to use glazing putty for? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest imported_Speedster Posted May 2, 2006 Share Posted May 2, 2006 As a filler for Rust pits in steel body panels (some are aluminum and have no pits). There wasn't more than 2 square feet of this car that still had any paint on steel parts. <img src="http://forums.aaca.org/images/graemlins/shocked.gif" alt="" /> There are a few areas that almost look like Swiss-cheese (front fenders mainly, but luckily they are thick steel). <img src="http://forums.aaca.org/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" /> (See picture in first post of the '29 645 Project thread.) Since the panels are so ruff, I'm going to spray them with epoxy primer first to have a good base for the filler, put the filler putty on to get it fairly smooth and then another layer of primer to seal the filler, before preping for final coats. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Albert Posted May 3, 2006 Share Posted May 3, 2006 You may find a couple of coats of a good primer/filler like Duponts Y2K Primer/filler will fill most of the small pits, then put a glide coat over (mist over the primer with black rattle can, ever so slight) then block sand just enought to remove the black and it will show all the imperfections as the black will be left in the low spots. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnworden1 Posted May 3, 2006 Share Posted May 3, 2006 Speedster, Your primer-filler-primer process is a proven one. I suggest using a regular filler instead of the glazing or finishing type for the rust pit filling you describe. I believe the glazing or finishing fillers were meant to fill surface defects such as pin holes and sand scratches. For the work you describe I would probebly prime, fill, sand with nothing coarser than 80 grit, apply a thin layer of glazing filler over all the previous filler to fill sand scratches and pin holes and sand with nothing coarser than 180 in preperation for another coat of primer. Guide coats work on fillers also. Tweek these grits to suit yourself and the products you use. I believe for the work you describe this method would quickly and efficiently eliminate the pitting on large areas. I don't reccommend using any type of primer to fill pits. High build primers are great products but they will fail if used in excessive thickness. My advice in your case is to achieve finish contour with filler and fill remaining sand scratches 180 or finer with primers only thick enough to do the job. Excessive mill thickness even in the best primers will most likely crack. John Worden Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RAL923 Posted May 3, 2006 Share Posted May 3, 2006 Speedster...If your metal is pitted as bad as you claim , I would suggest finding someone in your area that can soda blast your parts..You are going to have to get every bit of rust out of the pits before you can proceed..We like to soda blast then use a metal conditioner on pitting to make sure everything is clean and stable, otherwise the minute rust in the bottom of your pits will eat its way through any primer in time and cause blistering Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest imported_Speedster Posted May 3, 2006 Share Posted May 3, 2006 Yes, I was considering Soda-blasting some of the parts. But a couple years ago I had some others done and when I got them back they looked great, nice gray color that looked like bare metal, but when I did a final brushing before paint, I found that the gray layer was on top of a Rust layer under it. <img src="http://forums.aaca.org/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" /> Evidently there was a layer of the blasting medium, that looked like bare metal, and maybe since they sat for a few months before painting, the rust built up under the coating or maybe they were rusty all along, I'm not sure about that, but I do know they looked great even tho there was rust hiding under it. So I feel that soda-blasting those parts was a waist of time and money, since I had to apply more naval jelly and brush and clean them again, myself. <img src="http://forums.aaca.org/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" /> Blasting with any other medium (that the shops around here have), takes away too much metal also, So on these parts I'm going to clean them the best I can and hope the Epoxy primer takes care of the rest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnworden1 Posted May 4, 2006 Share Posted May 4, 2006 Your cleaning steps will do a lot of good. After cleaning and before priming consider treating the pitted metal with RustMort by SEM or another product of that type. From experience I do recommend RustMort. John Worden Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest imported_Speedster Posted May 4, 2006 Share Posted May 4, 2006 If I remember correctly Rust-Mort is a thin liquid, which is good for soaking parts in, in a vat or pan. The reason I like Naval-jelly better for most jobs, is that it is a gell that can be brushed onto large areas and it stays where you put it, with less waist. Naval jelly cost Much less and does a Great Job. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnworden1 Posted May 5, 2006 Share Posted May 5, 2006 Naval-jelly certainly is good for removing rust. RustMort type products aren't intended for rust removal. Instead, they chemically convert rust to something that is safe to fill, or prime over. I use it to treat metal that I'm not 100% sure that the rusting action is stopped. In those situations the peace of mind is priceless. John Worden Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RandyFerguson Posted May 5, 2006 Share Posted May 5, 2006 The best glazing putty I've used was 3M Flowable finishing putty. It's a two part, fast set glazing putty that sands well within about 5 minutes, just like regular filler. It's smooth and creamy so no pinholes to deal with. I use it whenever there are minor imperfections such as rust pits or small scrapes in the metal. I suggest coating the bare metal with epoxy primer first, rather than applying any type of filler directly to metal. I agree that the naval jelly is as good as you can get for removing rust, outside of having it professionally removed by a reputable firm who can safely dip you parts in a non-acidic solution. The trick to removing rust effectively with the naval jelly is to keep it wet. If it starts drying, it becomes inactive. I may post a tutorial I wrote sometime back on this if anyone is interested.Randy FergusonFerguson Coachbuilding Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest imported_Speedster Posted May 5, 2006 Share Posted May 5, 2006 I've been trying to convince the guys on this forum, for a long time, that Naval Jelly is Great stuff. Glad to find someone that agrees with me. <img src="http://forums.aaca.org/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Randy Berger Posted May 5, 2006 Share Posted May 5, 2006 What is the brand name of this naval jelly? The stuff I bought years ago was useless glop, so I never tried it again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest imported_Speedster Posted May 5, 2006 Share Posted May 5, 2006 'Naval Jelly' is the Brand name. I think it is owned by the Loctite Corp. now. Here's a link to it at Ace Hardware, but It's no longer owned by the Duro Co. , like the Ace pictures show. That sold by Ace is the original formula. I've been able to find it at a much reduced price on eBay, but none presently. They increased the price recently and I can't find it in large bottles anymore (which cost less per oz.), probably when Loctite took over. <img src="http://forums.aaca.org/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />http://www.acehardwaresuperstore.com/duro-naval-jelly-rust-p-3081.html?keywords=naval%20jelly Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RandyFerguson Posted May 5, 2006 Share Posted May 5, 2006 My local Wal-Mart carries it. Klean-Strip Rust remover "jellied rust remover"Product #WRK37. It comes in a plastic 8 oz. bottle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest imported_Speedster Posted May 5, 2006 Share Posted May 5, 2006 Klean-strip and Naval Jelly are Not the same thing. Alto I don't remember useing Klean-strip, I doubt that they are the same formula. <img src="http://forums.aaca.org/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" /> Naval Jelly is the original formula, developed for the US Navy, during the '40s, to kill rust on Naval Ships. Several years ago I tryed another brand of gell, but can't remember if it was Klean-strip or not, and it didn't work half as well as NJ. Had to put on several coats to get same effect as one coat of NJ. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest imported_Speedster Posted May 5, 2006 Share Posted May 5, 2006 Permatex also sells a 'look alike' rust dissolver. Both their label and bottle look similar to the real Naval Jelly. I've never tried it. It may be the same with their label on it. Most other products sold by Permatex are good, so it may be worth a try. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RandyFerguson Posted May 5, 2006 Share Posted May 5, 2006 I've searched high and low for what you are talking about and cannot find it anywhere. I used the Dupo brand Naval Jelly years ago and this stuff works just as well. Phosphoric Acid is the active ingredient. The jelly base is just a carrier.Randy Ferguson Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RandyFerguson Posted May 6, 2006 Share Posted May 6, 2006 I've started a new post containing the tutorial on surface rust removal. It would no doubt get lost in this thread.http://forums.aaca.org/showflat.php?Cat=...amp;amp;fpart=1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest imported_Speedster Posted May 6, 2006 Share Posted May 6, 2006 I received the Clausen products 'Lighten-up' and 'Smooth-out'. The Lighten-up is very similar to Bondo filler (same hardener, setup time, etc.), maybe it has little finer solid material in formula. It works great. <img src="http://forums.aaca.org/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" /> Adding the Smooth-Out Really Improves the way it goes on for thinner applications. It converts the Filler to a Glazing-putty, which allows you to use the same filler for All needs, depending on how much Smooth-out you add. Great Stuff! <img src="http://forums.aaca.org/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> I added it to Lighten-up and to Bondo and It works great with Both. <img src="http://forums.aaca.org/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> You have to be careful, and add it in small amounts tho, to get a feel for how much is needed. Which is the only problem I'm having with it, knowing 'how much to add' to how much filler. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest imported_Speedster Posted May 6, 2006 Share Posted May 6, 2006 BTW the Clausen Lighten-up cost less than Bondo, and the gal. can was Fuller, which makes it even more cost effective. <img src="http://forums.aaca.org/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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