R12/134a retrofit

[Guest inthespot]

I have read several post after doing a search on air conditioner problems and have a question. What parts do you have to replace when you update from R12 to 134a freon? Several of the posts say you have to replace the dryer and other parts and several posts say they used the kits or had a shop do it anywhere from $30 to $75.00 and it worked. Is there a correct answer? Just wanted to know 'cause i'm looking at a '91 with air issues and figure it may need this done.

[Guest imported_dantm4]

Me too, A/C light keeps coming on.

-Dan

90' Black/Tan Coupe

[Guest F14CRAZY]

From what I understand, it's good to replace the dryer, but not necessary for a conversion

[Reatta45]

You can replace the receiver/dryer but if the system is pumped down far enough and left under a good vacuum long enough, all the moisture should be removed? converting to r134 is fairly easy just change the service ports to the R134a type?

?but you will find that 134 dose not move heat quite as well as r12 did? if you can find anyone in your area that can replace it with ?Freeze12? that works better than r12 and has a lower head pressure than r12, both big plusses when it gets hot and you are in slow traffic. I have put that in several cars and when my Reatta needs refrigerant that is what I?ll put in mine. KennyV.

[Guest F14CRAZY]

Well, with the age of our cars, while you're at it, consider replacing the dryer, filter, maybe compressor, condenser if not in a dry climate, along with a system flush. I hate being hot.

I wouldn't go out of the way for R12, but long ago, my dad bought and stored a surplus of it

[Guest inthespot]

When you replace the dryer do you not have to remove the dash and is that not a job with considerable expense?

[Howard]

I would also replace the orfice tube. My compressor bit the dust last May and I switched to 134A. Seems to be working OK.

[JOHN07]

I have done many of these types of cars and have found that you need to replace the accumulator and orifice tube. R12 cars came with mineral oil and the 134a uses pag or easter oil. The desiccant in the old accumulator is not compatible with the new refrigerant. The new accumulators are rated for either r12 or 134a. Pull out the old accumulator and check the oil for color. It should be clear in color and not black. If black then you will have to flush out the system and change out the compressor. Pulling a vacuum before charging is very important.

Hope this helps,JohnT

[Guest inthespot]

Thanks JohnT, that is helpfull. I have not got the car yet just trying to cover my bases before I do. I did not want to get into anything and think that I could fix it with a can of freon usually not my luck. But one other thing, where is the accumulator located?

[padgett]

If you have to ask then drain, flush, and replace dryer and oriface tube (my understanding is that R134A works best with a different sized or variable oriface).

I had the compressor replaced in mine with the "whole nine yards" conversion five years ago and rarely turn the fan above "Low" even in central Florida summer.

Of course I also leave the sunroof open when parked and always seek shade (is garaged when home).

[Barney Eaton]

Experts claim the most important item is to remove all the old oil. As John noted the accumulator can be loaded with oil so it needs to go. Getting the oil out of the compressor is important but I don't think the new compressors hold oil like the '60's style compressors.

There was once a huge debate about the hoses leaking 134 because its molecules were smaller. This seems to have faded and is no longer an issue.

The time to change from R12 to 134 is when you need a new compressor, then change the accumulator and flushing the lines is recommended. If the system is just low and everything else is still good...stay with R12.

[harry yarnell]

The accumulator (dryer) is under the hood. It's that big (4"dia) silver can that the Freom lines go to.

And yes, it shoild be changed to insure the old mineral oil is out of the system. This is where it usually winds up; little or none will be found in the compressor. Modern A/C systems sorta work like a 2 cycle engine; the oil is in suspension.

[manikmekanik]

I wholly agree with Barney, if you can replace the R-12, (and maybe seals in the compressor if needed), that is your best, (and cheapest), bet.

Or....

Find one which does'nt need A/C service to start with, there are a few out there.

here's a link to a "couple"

http://forums.aaca.org/showflat.php?Cat=&Number=319377&page=2&view=collapsed&sb=5&o=&fpart=1

Best of luck in your search. Mike!!

[Guest imported_dantm4]

I"m guessing R-12 is hard to find, and since I don't have a kit or anything, probably even harder to refill. Any suggestions besides crossing my fingers?

-Dan

90' Black/Tan Coupe

[farnelle]

R/12 no longer available in Columbia, SC. From what I read, 134 will be the next to go. All probably has more to do with pattens running out than anything else. It seems you can always find the problem by following the money. For my part, I am trying Freeze 12.

Ed

[padgett]

Hadn't heard of any shortage of 134A, just headed for $10/can. Do you have any details ?

[Rawja]

My experience has been that now that most the vehicles out there that originally took R12 have been converted or taken out of service, the price of R12 has dropped precipitously.

I have kept my Reatta and my '84 Seville on R12 for minimal cost, certainly less than what conversion would have cost. It's a more efficient refrigerant too boot.

[Machiner 55]

At two auto repair shops here in NWI, I was quoted two different prices. The first I went to said they charged $60.00 per pound of R12.

The second quoted me $40.00 per pound.

I made an appointment for this thursday with the second shop. What are they charging, per pound, where you're at?

[charlie1]

IZZZ

Edited August 2, 2009 by CHAS1 (see edit history)

[Rawja]

I asked while one of my cars was in today. Apparently I've been paying 32.00/Lb.

[harry yarnell]

As to Duracool, exactly what is it? Propane, mostly? What kind of pressures should I see in a properly charged system? Can you mix (add) it to a system with R-12?

[Gryphon]

Has anyone tried Autofrost? http://www.autofrost.com/

It's a drop-in R-12 replacement. I don't know how good it is, I discovered its inventor back in the day when he came up with a method for preparing a charcoal BBQ for cooking in 5 seconds. Using liquid oxygen.

http://www.doeblitz.net/ghg/

Heck, he even has his own Wikipedia entry: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_H._Goble

[charlie1]

Do a search on Duracool and you will find a lot of information.

Also Check their website.

Been using Duracool in several old cars for years.

In my 1989 Riviera have always been able to find R-12 on E Bay at a reasonable price.

Charlie

[Guest spongebob]

stay with r12..i do refrigeration for a living..my cost for 12 is $12 per lb..