sahein Posted April 4, 2001 Share Posted April 4, 2001 I am getting a code 41. Is it typicaly the ignition control module under the coils that goes bad or is it the ECM or something else? Any help would be appreciated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted April 5, 2001 Share Posted April 5, 2001 Code 41 is a cam sensor fault. It could be a cam sencer, ign module, ECM, wire problem, conector problem, or cam magnet failure. The best thing to do is to follow the tests in the manual. If I was to guess I would try the cam sencer. It is probibly the cheapest part and not too hard to do. Check the wires that go near the water pump to make sure they are ok.<P>Tom Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sahein Posted April 6, 2001 Author Share Posted April 6, 2001 I need a manual. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sahein Posted April 14, 2001 Author Share Posted April 14, 2001 I pulled a cam sensor out of a Riveria today and went to swap it out with mine, BUT ... There is no place on the engine for the cam sensor and no wiring for it either. The later models must have a cam sensor. So what are the possibilities? E041 is something other than a cam sensor problem on my car, or, a computer box was changed ECM or BCM)to a newer one that is expecting a signal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted April 14, 2001 Share Posted April 14, 2001 What year is your Reatta? Did it allways have the check engine light on sence you got the car? I looked at all the GM injected 3.8L from 86-92 and every one had a cam sencer. I never remember seeing one with out. <P>No ofence but are you sure you have the cam sencer? A plastic piece maybe the diameter of a quarter with a female 2-3 terminal plug located in the center of the front cover and held in with (1) 8mm bolt. <P>If is true that it does not have a cam sencer then it would have allways had that problem sence someting was done. There are many other buick front covers without cam sencers for older model 3.8L. I can't believe that would be the case. Maybe your sencer got broken off flush or is covered in dirt? Without the sencer compleatly there would be a big hole oil would be comming of of the front cover.<P>I would not say anything got switched with you ECM. You BCM does not have anything to do with the engine codes. <P>Tom Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sahein Posted April 15, 2001 Author Share Posted April 15, 2001 It is an 88 model year with 205000 miles on it. I have been a jet engine mechanic and have also rebuilt quite a few engines and transmissions in my life. I am currently working in engineering as an electronics technician. I have previously completely restored and rebuilt an 85 Park Avenue with a 3.8 that is sitting in my garage along side my Corvette and Reatta. When I tell you that there is no cam sensor or wiring for a cam sensor, that is fact. Visit my homepage. <A HREF="http://members.nbci.com/sahein/" TARGET=_blank>http://members.nbci.com/sahein/</A> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sahein Posted April 15, 2001 Author Share Posted April 15, 2001 Now lets look at the possibilities. (From least likely to most likely) GM built this car special without a cam sensor. I am blind as a bat and my fingers are numb. The engine and wiring harness could have been replaced with an older model and the new intake and other parts were put on the old engine. The front cover could have been replaced with an older one and the connector cut off and the wires hidden inside the harness. <P>For the worst case senerio, what is necessary to repair this problem? I can get the wiring harness and the front cover from the Riviera in the junk yard. But what about the cam magnets? Will the cam fit into an older engine? Maybe I just need to pick up a series II supercharged engine. What type of problems will I have if I go this rout? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted April 15, 2001 Share Posted April 15, 2001 Can you read the part number on the front cover? 88-90 should be 2533491 and 91 is 25535730. There may be other acceptible part numbers.<P>If you follow the wires out of the crank senser (should be 4 terminal) a gray/red and white/black wire goes to both the ignition module and the cam sencer with the splice in the harness. the 3rd wire that goes to the 3 terminal cam sencer is a brown/white that goes back to terminal J at the ignition module. Try tracing the wires thru the few feet of harness here to see what you find. If it is the orignal harness the wires would be hidden or cut. <P>The FI 3.8's all seemed to have cam sencers. After more checking the 3.0L and 3.3L did not. The car has a lot of miles so it's posable some engine work was done. Maybe someone put a 3.0 or 3.3L front cover on it. Or worse yet they replaced the stock 3.8 with a 3.0 or 3.3L. The 3.0, 3.3, and 3.8L blocks are simmilar. Maybe if you crawn under the car cast in the underside of the block it may say the size. It does not make sence that someone would do that. But there are owners or used car lots not worried how well something will work. Just a matter of fixing it cheap. A person might have had the different cover/motor sitting around.<P>The Reatta 3.8L had a digital EGR valve whitch means is has wires comming from it. The 3.0 and 3.3 engines had a vacuum hose working the valve. The intake could still be the orignal. The orignal Reatta harness would have to be pluged in the digital EGR valve or you would have EGR codes. Look for any changes in the wire harness. The injectors are wired different on the 3.8L.<P>Tom<BR> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted April 16, 2001 Share Posted April 16, 2001 I'm not certain about the '88 model year but my '90 is marked on the top rear surface of the engine. This is directly below the throttle body and may be difficult to see below the crossover pipe for the exhaust. It is on the flat surface just forward of where the transaxle bolts on. Mine is marked 3800 cc. <BR>Tom is right about the 3800 engine, it is sequential in the fuel delivery and must have a cam sensor to sync. the fuel signal. The smaller engines use a batch fire for the injectors and no cam sensor.<P>------------------<BR>Hal, btk@vbe.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sahein Posted April 16, 2001 Author Share Posted April 16, 2001 I looked at the EGR and it is electrical. 3800 is imprinted into the block. So this must be the correct harness and the correct engine. I will get the front cover off of the Riviera. I don't have a manual so I cannot look at the configuration of the cam magnets. My guess is that it is the correct cam and that the front cover has been changed and the connector cut off. When I have it apart to change the cover, I will dig into the harness to look for the wires.<P> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted April 16, 2001 Share Posted April 16, 2001 I have an 88 Reatta and had the E041 code intermittently (("Electrical problem" flashing on and off on the screen every time I drove it.)I finally had Buick replace the cam sensor even though they did not think it was bad ($117,00 parts & Labor). For 5 days I got some rest from that eternal E041 code then it started again. I tried clearing the codes-no help. Buick didn't have a clue why E041 returned. I lived with it! Finally the brakes failed and during that repair low and behold'the code went off and I have been E041 free for 9 months. But wait -Friday the<BR>"Electrical Problem" message came up on the screen again and I'm afraid to look at the Codes, afraid I might see that @#!%$ E041 again. I am trying to tell you that the fix for that code just is not always simple. I had also tried another shop and they could not find the problem -their computer and Buicks did not show the error code. Only my car's computer was reading it. During all this the car ran great.<P>jtaylor@cartbean.com<BR> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted April 16, 2001 Share Posted April 16, 2001 I have an 88 Reatta and had the E041 code intermittently (("Electrical problem" flashing on and off on the screen every time I drove it.)I finally had Buick replace the cam sensor even though they did not think it was bad ($117,00 parts & Labor). For 5 days I got some rest from that eternal E041 code then it started again. I tried clearing the codes-no help. Buick didn't have a clue why E041 returned. I lived with it! Finally the brakes failed and during that repair low and behold'the code went off and I have been E041 free for 9 months. But wait -Friday the<BR>"Electrical Problem" message came up on the screen again and I'm afraid to look at the Codes, afraid I might see that @#!%$ E041 again. I am trying to tell you that the fix for that code just is not always simple. I had also tried another shop and they could not find the problem -their computer and Buicks did not show the error code. Only my car's computer was reading it. During all this the car ran great.<P>jtaylor@cartbean.com<BR> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted April 16, 2001 Share Posted April 16, 2001 Sahein, If You are on the right side fender looking at the front of the motor. Find Your water pump pulley that is driven by the serpentine belt and to the left lower side of the pulley You will see the cam sensor. It has a 3 wire plug in and almost looks like it is bolted to the water pump. Looks like it would be pretty easy to replace. Skip Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted April 16, 2001 Share Posted April 16, 2001 By the way Mine is an 89 so I hope it is the same. Skip Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted April 17, 2001 Share Posted April 17, 2001 What enigne can't you find the sensor on? The 85 engine won't have a CMPS because it has a distrributor. The sensor should be right in the middle of the cover.<P>-T Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChrisWhewell Posted June 7, 2018 Share Posted June 7, 2018 Hurray, I just got a code 041. Had replaced the cam magnet 2 years ago with JB Weld method. I waited a few minutes, now the 041 is gone. so maybe its the sensor, not the magnet ?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ronnie Posted June 7, 2018 Share Posted June 7, 2018 Maybe just a bad connection. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cargirl Posted June 7, 2018 Share Posted June 7, 2018 In case you have not found this info, here is the easier way to replace the cam magnet sensor. I did this procedure on my last Reatta and if I can do it, anyone can do it. Good luck. http://www.reattaowner.com/roj/component/content/article/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&catid=60:computers-a-sensors&id=326:cam-magnet-replacement (thanks to www.reattaowners for the info) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DAVES89 Posted June 7, 2018 Share Posted June 7, 2018 You can take a look in the cam magnet hole and see what the magnet looks like. [It means you have to remove the sensor]. If the magnet is "Good" then it should either be the connector for the cam sensor of the cam sensor itself. Prior to my engine rebuild my magnet was going bad but still had a couple of "corners" left so I swapped out the sensor and it worked for the balance of the time before the rebuild. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChrisWhewell Posted June 7, 2018 Share Posted June 7, 2018 you guys are great. yeah we love our cars. my heart sank when I saw 041, like my JB weld job failed... but I was glad when the 41 didn't come back, I don't think the loss of a magnet can be intermittent, so I don't need to do the JB job again. I can say, the car ran like crap. I have some old Multec injectors from my 93 vette, think I"ll put them in her. Still not happy with the trans, at certain speeds around 47, she wants overdrive right when I punch it about to go up a hill, she goes into overdrive and I get a bog and have to manually go to 3rd to get some balls. Maybe the multecs will help Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChrisWhewell Posted June 8, 2018 Share Posted June 8, 2018 Hooray. I pulled the fuel rail and dug out the Multec injectors from my 93 vette and put them into Reatta. Wooo hooo !! Instant smooth idle, better than ever. Also, noticeably more power. And, no code E041, thank gawd, that was scary seeing that yesterday. So here's my theory, I had a bad injector, and the O2 sensor takes an average of 6 cyls. If one injector is not working, that one cylinder is starved and ECM will up fuel delivery signal to other injectors to compensate so that air/fuel ratio is believed by computer to be correct, "on average" Now however, all injectors are working, so probably in addiiton to the slight increase in power I sensed on my trip to the gas station moments ago, I expect fuel economy should increase slightly. The multecs are rated 22 lbs/hr but in reality actually measure 21.6. I think Reatta's stock injectors are only 19 lbs, correct me if I'm wrong. Wow, first time since I bought the car, its running really smooth. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2seater Posted June 8, 2018 Share Posted June 8, 2018 Correct on the size and rating of both the stock Reatta injectors and the Multec's. I can't imagine how the injectors, working or not, would affect the 041 code, but if it's gone, that's great. Take a look at the integrator, E019 and block learn, E020 to see that the ecm has properly adjusted for the greater flow. I would expect the integrator to circle around the 128 number and the block learn to drop down to the low 100's to compensate. Are the Multec's gray with a rather fat body? This is not meant as a criticism, but the Multec's don't have a sterling reputation for reliability with ethanol in the fuel. I also have a set which ran successfully for some time but I did have one fail. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChrisWhewell Posted June 8, 2018 Share Posted June 8, 2018 You're right, injectors totally unrelated to 041. The car was running like cr_ _ yesterday and it finally hit me, to swap the injectors. Meantim, overnight I let the engine cool as usual, and was happy as a kitten when the 041 didn't come back. First guess is the sensor, maybe it didn't like the hot day yesterday and the way I was flooring the gas pedal to make it up hills. I used to smell sulfur like smell after hard acceleration, so I put in a new cat. convertor last year, but it did not help. I'm now pondering whether, if I had a bad injector, lots of unburned residue might be in the comb chamber of the cyl with the previously bad injector. It definitely is running much much better, almost like it really is the difference btw running on 5 vs. 6 cyls. Yeah, the integrator... I used to know how to get into there and read it but its been a while, I forgot. Have to look it up again. But, finally the car is running probably normal how its supposed to. I always thought previously it was a dog. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChrisWhewell Posted June 8, 2018 Share Posted June 8, 2018 You are right 2seater, the integrator was exactly at 128. but, block learn was also 128. What I learned, was that ED17 was reading 9999. Maybe this is part of my problem, it sounds like the computer believes the engine is knocking ?? and has accordingly retarded spark, thereby costing me performance ?? I need to look into maybe replacing the knock sensor , I wonder how hard it is to get to, will check it out. thanks for prompting me to check out the Ec values, much appreciated. Wow won't it be great if I swap the knock sensor for a new one and the car runs like really well ? cross my fingers... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2seater Posted June 13, 2018 Share Posted June 13, 2018 On 6/8/2018 at 1:55 PM, ChrisWhewell said: You are right 2seater, the integrator was exactly at 128. but, block learn was also 128. What I learned, was that ED17 was reading 9999. Maybe this is part of my problem, it sounds like the computer believes the engine is knocking ?? and has accordingly retarded spark, thereby costing me performance ?? I need to look into maybe replacing the knock sensor , I wonder how hard it is to get to, will check it out. thanks for prompting me to check out the Ec values, much appreciated. Wow won't it be great if I swap the knock sensor for a new one and the car runs like really well ? cross my fingers... I would not expect the integrator and block earn to be at exactly 128 unless the engine is cold and the O2 sensor isn't functioning. The integrator should indicate above and below the 128 number as the O2 sensor keeps the fuel mixture at the target value. If the injectors are indeed larger than stock, the block learn "should" be a substantially lower number, maybe 110-115 as it is making a gross adjustment to get the integrator in the ballpark. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
padgett Posted June 13, 2018 Share Posted June 13, 2018 If the engine is not in closed loop then it will be ignoring the O2. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2seater Posted June 13, 2018 Share Posted June 13, 2018 With larger injectors, the mixture will be a little fat when in open loop, like cold or at full throttle. The expected injector flow rate is adjustable in the chip if desired. Regarding the knock counts, I had a similar issue where it would not register any knock when testing. I replaced the Memcal with one from Jim and the problem went away. I would at least try disconnecting and reinstalling the harness connections at the ECM and the Memcal itself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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