Need Longest Distance Driven Award formula

[Guest]

Has any club come up with a reasonable forumula for awarding the Longest Distance Driven trophy, taking into account the age of the car. Certainly driving any '75 model 1000 miles is not as meritorious as driving a 1915 200 miles.<BR>

[Guest]

GREAT POST, detko.<P>Something like this has been needed for a long time. If no one has a ready formula, perhaps this forum can be the means for creating one. We could offer our ideas and input. Let's wait a bit to see if something like this already exists. If not, let's fix it.<P>I once attended a tour where a 1940 vehicle, driven over 1200 miles to the tour lost the award to a 1965 vehicle driven about 50 miles further. Fortunately, the owner of the older vehicle wasn't particularly concerned. That was when I first had the idea that a formula based on vehicle age and miles driven to the event was needed.<P>hvs

[Bill Stoneberg]

A formula we use is:<P>Miles driven * ((Current year-Year of car)*.01)<P>So Howard, taking your case as an example and assuming it happened last year we get:<P><B>1940 Car</B><P>1200 * ((2000 - 1940)*.01)<BR>1200 * (60 *.01)<BR>1200 * .60 = <B>720 Adjusted Miles</B><P><B>1965 car</B><BR>1250 * ((2000 - 1965) *.01)<BR>1250 * (35 *.01)<BR>1250 *.35 = <span style="font-weight: bold"> 437.5 Adjusted Miles </span><P>So basically what this does is the older the car, the higher the percentage that we multiply by so the fewer miles it has to drive.<P>We have not had any arguments using this formula in the club I am part of.<P>Play with it and see what you think.<BR><p>[This message has been edited by Bill Stoneberg (edited 03-24-2001).]

[Guest]

Bill ~ That formula looks pretty darned good to me. ~ Howard

[Terry Bond]

We've always given two awards - one pre war and one post war. We use the "honor system" of having entrants report their distance. Once we had to split hairs at a meet when it was discovered Billy Melton drove his 1919 Buick from the far side of the motel!<BR>Terry

[Guest]

Bill, I appreciate your input...could you please tell me what club uses this algorithm?<BR>Detko

[ply33]

Terry,<P>You have to be careful about "pre-war and post-war": I had a fairly large number of discussions with a fellow that was helping me get some mechanical parts repaired. He was alway bemoaning the lack of "pre-war" parts in recent car swap meets. I agreed with him in that I often had problems finding parts for my 1933, which I consider "pre-war".<P>It took me a while to figure out that to him "pre-war" meant pre-WW1 and that my car was too new to count. <P>I like Bill Stoneberg's formula but it does not really map with automotive reality. There was very rapid technological advances in automotive design up to about 1930 then thing slowed down a bit until WW2. After the rapid changes from 1945 to 1950, things became pretty static as far as reliability and preformance were concerned.<P>You can cruise in a 1963 car all day at 75 MPH. We did it all the time when I was growing up and that was our family car, nothing fancy.<P>So the formula is too kind on a 1950 vs a 1970 car but too tough on a 1920 car vs a 1930 car. I am not sure there is a really fair way to deal with this.

[Guest]

Tod ~ No formula will ever be perfect, but Bill's concept is better than what we have all been dealing with for years. I have never seen the long distance award given except to the car driven the longest distance, regardless of year of manufacture.<BR>In fact it is often determined at the closing banquet by asking people "Who drove the farthest distance", and having them stand up and announce their mileage.<P>I agree that the points which you bring up are most valid and in a perfect world should influence the outcome. But, I will match a 1912 Locomobile or other "great" car of that era against some early '30s iron for stamina and comfort of driving. I would rather drive my '13 Cadillac [which I do not consider to be a "great" car] 200 miles than drive my '31 Chev the same distance. I can stand up when I get out of the Cadillac. Put them out on the highway and the Cad. will run away from the Chev. I has already happened.<P>Come up with a better formula and one that is easily applied and I will support it wholeheartedly. But remember, this is a hobby event and not a moon launch, so it should be kept reasonably simple.<P>Till then, Bill's formula is the best I have seen and far superior to current practice.<P>hvs

[Bill Stoneberg]

While the formula doesn't account for all the changes that have been made over the years, it does accomplish the purpose that we set out to solve.<BR>It gives the long distance award to the person who we feel has had the most courage, guts, or whatever you want to call it by bringing their car to our show.<BR>We all felt it was easier to drive a late model car than an earlier and we weighted the formula accordingly.<BR>There has been talk around the dinner table about throwing in a multiplier for the decade but it hasn't gone anywhere yet.<BR>We have been using this in a local show in Texas where some people will drive 800 - 1200 miles to come to the show. <BR>We feel that the person who did it in a 1930 Buick should have had a harder time and have to be better prepared then the person who drove his 56 T-Bird the same distance.<BR>If anyone can come up with a better equalizing formula, I am all ears.<BR>Of course it you drive the same 1200 miles in a Deuce coupe with A/C and a 350 you are thrown out of this class and into a Hotrod Class where all that matters is Distance. This is just for the ORIGINAL cars with original the drivetrain.<P>Detko, We just use this for a local car show and have for about 10 years. Never has gone beyond that. Anyone is welcome to use it if it will help you.<P>Bill

[Guest]

<BR>I was also thinking about an inverse multiplier for the number of cyl... certainly any 4 cyl auto needs a handicap when pitted against a V8.<BR>

[Guest]

detko ~ Are you sure about that? I know of some very large displacement 4 cyl cars from early in the century that I would match up against a Ford 60 of the late '30s.<P>I even think my '13 Cadillac might give a Ford 60 a run for its money, and you couldn't stop either one of them once you really got them rolling. ~ hvs

[novaman]

What if you threw in a cubic inch displacement factor? Not just wether it is a 4,6,8,12 cyl.<P>Or what about a (cu. in. : weight) factor. I know, I know, now we are going to worry about the person be honest about his weight. <p>[This message has been edited by novaman (edited 03-27-2001).]

[ply33]

Wouldn't the ci : weight factor give KK addicts and advantage?

[Guest]

Looks like we are going to come up with a formula that even Albert Einstein couldn't solve. <P>Stick with the KISS principle. "Keep It Simple Stupid" or - "Keep It Simple Sweetie" for those with more delicate sensativities.<P>hvs

[Guest SalG (Sal Grenci)]

I have always liked the pre war, post war split. SalG

[Jim Bollman]

At the risk of even adding more complexity to this discussion it occurred to me that with all this talk of size and weight that maybe an equation similar to what LeMans or Sebring uses to calculate handicapes for laps needed to win, with a factor for the age thrown in.<P>Having thrown that idea on the table, I agree it does need to be kept simple, but being an engineer I do like elegant solutions to problems.<P>Maybe a rought formula is all you need for most meets and when it looks like a close call pull out the laptop and plug in the numbers. :-)<P>Jim...

[Guest]

Sal ~ Pre WHICH war? I have 2 pre WWI cars and they certainly are different drivers from my post WWI '20s & '30s cars. These of course are pre WWII cars. All of these are much different drivers from my post WWII cars. Of course my post Korea car is an easier driver than my post WWII but pre Korean war car. Then there is my post Vietnam war car. As yet post Gulf war cars are not eligible. Now about this pre war/post war issue------- <P>I trust all of you will accept the above with the tongue in cheek spirit in which it was created. <P>All of this is meant to show that you can complicate this thing beyond all reason and make it into a statistical nightmare.<P>Now how about factoring in the driver's age using a pre social security vs post social security formula.<P>Well guys, there goes KISS. <P>hvs<P><p>[This message has been edited by hvs (edited 03-27-2001).]

[Bill Stoneberg]

Howard,<BR>I think pre Social Security - Post SS is depriving us of the audience we want. After all in prior post, I have read that we want to get the club younger.<P>So I suggest one modification in your proposal and that is to make it Pre AARP / Post AARP.<P>Bill(Toungue firmly in Cheek)

[Guest]

Bill ~ How about pre middle age crisis/post middle age crisis. I think that usually falls at about age 40 which is right on our target area. Howard

[JanK]

And if you listen to someone like my husband, you'd have to factor in male vs. female driver. He thinks females are harder on cars, for some reason.<P>Jan K.

[Guest SalG (Sal Grenci)]

Howard, I have always viewed pre war meaning WWII. (the Big One, as Archie Bunker would say) A local club, the Long Island Old Car Club, which is a brass group, considers it to be WWI. The problem with pre WWI cars is that you can not drive them on Long Island. The only way is to go out east in the spring or fall or some of the lesser traveled parts of the north shore. Very few of those cars come out, and drive the roads of an area with 3 million plus residents. SalG

[Guest]

WELL!!! I had never imagined that my initial posting would generate such creative and amusing replies. Certainly has provided a lot of food for thought.<BR>Many thanks to all who participated in the discussion..(and thanks to all the silent readers who will chew on the topic and, perhaps, come back later with more thought provoking ideas.)<BR>

[Guest JAW]

Bill Stoneberg's formula for "handicapping" older cars that travel to meets is the best I'v ever seen. What do you think Howard?<p>[This message has been edited by JAW (edited 04-03-2001).]