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1931 833 Restoration


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Well as you all know my engine is out at the machine shop so I figured well now is probably a good time to start the restoration. I will attach a few pictures here but does anyone now a quicker way I can post all the photos at once in the Photo Gallery?

post-31137-143137891404_thumb.jpg

Edited by Tom M
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Okay one more of the underside. As you can see some what in picture more brown/green paint.

Should I have the frame, wheel wells and underside Soda Blasted?

post-31137-143137891408_thumb.jpg

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I'm really surprised by the brown paint on frame. I thought they were all black from factory. If you think the brown is original, I would do it in same color. I like the look of brown better and everyone has black. <img src="http://forums.aaca.org/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

To do the best job possible, all the old paint needs to removed before painting, but if it were mine I would sand off any loose paint, kill the rust, and paint over it. It looks like you have already got most of the loose paint and rust, so it looks ready to paint, to me. <img src="http://forums.aaca.org/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

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Tom, your question about your frame color brings me back to:

http://forums.aaca.org/showflat.php?Cat=...amp;amp;fpart=1

where I asked if any single marque club out there publishes a guide as to "this is what we know to be correct and will judge your car against" The Lincoln club did a magnificent job on a 46-48 continental guide. We're still in "gameland" wrt Packard. Best of luck with your project, she looks very promising.

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Hi Rick,

A gentleman I talk to on the phone the other day stated when purchasing a New Packard and if you had an extra $25 to spend you could have the frame painted a contrasting color to the color of the car. Has anyone else read or hear about that?

I started stripping the frame with my newly purchased angle grinder (with wire wheel attachment) but the dust it was throwing all over the garage I stopped. That is one reason I was thinking of taking the car to be blasted instead.

After posting pictures last night I went back out to garage and to take off the right side running board, rear fender etc. Well after taking the right rear fender off (half the bolts snapped) I found the wheel well is in worse shape the left side. Can these be purchased anywhere or will I need to have a body shop fabricated them for me?

I am bagging and tagging all nuts and bolts. Instead of reinstalling these old rusty nuts and bolts my friend suggested I go out and purchase all stainless steel ones (these would just be for the running boards, fenders etc) and just paint them. What have you all done to replace them?

Mrpushbutton,

Thanks for the link and the encouragement. I have been reading the judging threads for info. When I first crawled under car and saw the brown/green paint I was curious and wonder what color I should paint it. That is why I posted pictures of it so others can see and make comments.

Thanks all for the feedback.

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I have in my files a service letter from Packard dated June 15, 1931 titled "Optional paint schemes for Packard 8 and Packard 8 Deluxe cars". First it is important to understand that when Packard wrote "Standard Black Chassis Parts" this included the entire chassis as well as the fenders and runningboard splash aprons. That being understood, Paint Scheme M specifies "Standard black chassis parts for Packard 8 Deluxe cars...Aztec Olivine Brown. Paint scheme E calls for a "Riverhead Green" chassis. Scheme F was "Midnight Blue". Frames painted in a color other than black were optional at least thru 1932, likely later.

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Restorer32,

I have some letters at home that my Great Uncle wrote to Studebaker and DuPont about paint color. I don't recall anything stated in them about the frame color. I will need to pull them out again.

This car was originally green. I know that because the maroon paint is peeling off in spots and green is showing there. Could it be that since the car was painted green that they used "Riverhead Green". I am color blind (can?t see certain shades of greens and browns) so by the pictures I posted can you tell what color it is?

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It's a little difficult to tell from pictures, but to me it looks like 'Kakki Tan' or very light brown. Or just a little darker than a Sand color. That 'Aztec Olivine Brown' may be the correct name. I've never seen an Aztec Olive Vine, Tho. <img src="http://forums.aaca.org/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" /> <img src="http://forums.aaca.org/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

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Studebaker colors in those years would have no relevance to Packard. The complete paint scheme is:

Paint Scheme "E"

Standard Black Chassis parts...Riverhead green

Body and bonnet mouldings and window castinga, also body base mouldings and body above moulding on enclosed cars only...Riverhead Green

Window reveals, cowl and bonnet above moulding, body above moulding on open cars and convertible cars only, body and bonnet below moulding and steel or wood wheels where specified...Bonaventure Green

Stripe- Body, bonnet and wheels...Perugia Green

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I think you could get any color on the frame you wanted for an extra charge. When I was apprenticing to a well-regarded restorer, we were working on a '29 Packard 7-passenger phaeton. It had a black frame and was painted an ungodly bright blue with black fenders, orange wheels and a cream insert on the doors. Yow!

Upon gently stripping it (the job that fell to me as the 14-year-old grunt), we discovered that the frame was originally maroon (though we could not determine the original color of the body). We ended up refinishing the car with the maroon frame, maroon fenders and a silver body with black top and interior. The car was <span style="font-style: italic">gorgeous</span> (and showed up in Hemmings a few months ago for $115,000--probably a screaming bargain) and was invited to Pebble Beach. It also won a CCCA first. Nobody ever disputed the authenticity of the maroon frame.

That said, I'd paint it any color that makes you happy. Unless you're going to compete at the highest levels, nobody will criticize you for it (or at least I hope they don't!). It's your car, why not finish it the way you would have ordered it in 1931? With Packard, you could have just about anything you wanted!

Hope this helps.

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Well you guys have convinced me to paint my 645s frame 'Green'. It's in primer now and I had planed on doing Black, but I think green will look better. I wasn't sure if it was black that faded to green or a Very dark green originally. When dry it looks a little green but when wet it looks black.

Should the frame be the same shade of Green as the Fenders or maybe a darker green? It would be easyer and less expensive to do same color, since I already have the paint for fenders and body and would probably look better.

I can always save the Black paint I have for the Next car. <img src="http://forums.aaca.org/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> <img src="http://forums.aaca.org/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

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That's the point I made in a previous post. Packard considered the chassis to include the fenders, splashers, etc. So, to be technically correct, the frame and fenders should be the same color but it's your car, paint it polka dot if you like!

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  • 1 month later...

Restorer32,

You wrote:

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">That being understood, Paint Scheme M specifies "Standard black chassis parts for Packard 8 Deluxe cars...Aztec Olivine Brown. </div></div> Well I may be wrong about my car being the Green paint scheme. As I was striping the firewall I got some stripper on the cowl so I figure I leave it set since I will be stripping the rest of body anyways. As I was scarping the Maroon paint off the cowl I got down to some grey primmer. As I started to scrape the primmer a strange color started to appear so I took it nice and easy not to scrape off what I was seeing below the primer. Took some 0000 steel wool and lightly removed the primer. Low and behold I think my car was originally paint scheme M as you mentioned Restorer32. It was getting late so I stopped. I will take a picture of the little area that I did and will post.

Now that I have already painted some of the suspension parts black can I just finish up painting the rest black and Paint the frame Aztec Olivine Brown or will it look tacky?

Or should I just go all black on the underside?

Here is link to a color chart

Packard Color Schedule

Paint Scheme M Upper Color (Ravenswood Brown (IM-425))

Paint Scheme M Lower Color (Imperial Champagne (IM-877))

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The Frame needs to be same color as Fenders. I think it's okay to have shocks, suspension parts and brake-linkage black, even if frame is not. But you want the complete car to be color coordinated. In other words, if there is black somewhere on the bottom you want a little black up top somewhere, like a black fabric insert in top or something.

Man, those color charts on that website are almost Useless. <img src="http://forums.aaca.org/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" /> On my monitor they all look like different shades of black. <img src="http://forums.aaca.org/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" />

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<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Front window frame. The color here seems a little darker then the color on the cowl. </div></div>

That looks like the color of tbirdman's car, a 1932 coupe-roadster!!!

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<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Rick, that cause you are till using that circa 1981 Black and White monitor. <img src="http://forums.aaca.org/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" /> </div></div>

Could Be! <img src="http://forums.aaca.org/images/graemlins/shocked.gif" alt="" /> <img src="http://forums.aaca.org/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

I put them in Photoshop software, increased brightness and contrast and took out the brown of the paper until it was almost white and then the colors were a lot closer to what I think they should be. <img src="http://forums.aaca.org/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

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I was thinking the same thing. I don't know the color scheme. In fact when people ask me the color, I have a hard time describing it. However a lot of people have said they loved it which is strange to me as I was doubting the color when I was considering the purchase. So what does say about my taste;)If you want, I can dab some body paint on a card and send you a sample. I can also do that for the wheels and the chassis. The chassis is brown with some of the major items like shocks painted black.

So the question is the body paint aztec olive? The previous owner belived the color was original but thought maybe the color a hint of too much green. The color under flourescent lights I don't think is as pretty as the green stands out more.

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Tbirdman,

Can you really do that for me? Did they give you some extra paint? And yes I sure would appreciate if you can send me a dab of the colors. Then I can use it to compare what I am finding on my car.

I can PM you with my home address if you like.

Thanks

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<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Tbirdman,

Can you really do that for me? Did they give you some extra paint? And yes I sure would appreciate if you can send me a dab of the colors. Then I can use it to compare what I am finding on my car.

I can PM you with my home address if you like.

Yes PM me with your address and I'll will send you a sample of the leftover paint.

Thanks </div></div>

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  • 1 month later...

Ken (tbirdman) or Geoff (1956Packard),

Can you two or anyone else out there help me out here Please? I need a close up picture of the golf door. I have the sills back from my friend and started to install them last night. In the area of the golf door hinge it was all rotted away and was replace at one time with strips of pine. Since it was gone he had no pattern on what to cut out of the new sill for the hinge (that is if I have the correct hinge, which is another reason why I need a close up picture). Be nice if I could get one with the door open also so I can see line up of door to floor.

Geoff what state is you car in? Is the carpet out of yours? If so that would be great for reference also. <img src="http://forums.aaca.org/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Thanks

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Hi Tom:

I'd love to help with the golf door, but I don't have the key and have not yet been able to open mine.

With respect to carpet I assume you are interested in the cabin? While most of mine is gone, there are some pieces still there. Are you after pictures / sample?

Geoff

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Geoff,

I was looking more for how the hinge in mounted to the floor. With the new sills we kept it the same thickness through out so at the point where the golf door is at we didn't know what to cut out.

Tbirdman aka pcardman,

I like your new aka <img src="http://forums.aaca.org/images/graemlins/smirk.gif" alt="" />

I just checked my home email shh from work. The pictures look good. <span style="font-weight: bold">Thank you KEN for taking the time to take them for me</span> <img src="http://forums.aaca.org/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

I took some pictures last night with the new sills installed for my scrape book. Will need to pull them back out once again to seal and paint.

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Rick,

That picture sure also helped. Thanks.

Mine looks like that one. But at some point it was chromed and had been painted over the maroon. The picture that you posted looks like it is painted.

So the question is should it be painted body color or chromed?

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It's possible that it was painted in '30 and chrome in '31 ? Or they could have painted over the chrome in the '30 in the pic. It would seem more logical for it to be chrome or stainless-steel at sill, since you drag stuff over it, when pulling things in and out, witch would scratch paint. Other door sills are not painted. Or maybe even polished aluminum ?

I noticed that the golf-door is one of the Most Changed areas of these cars. Both orginally by coach body builders and by restorers. So it sometimes becomes Very difficult to determine what is original and correct. <img src="http://forums.aaca.org/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" />

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Geoff,

Thanks that all I need to know. I will see what mine looks like once I get the paint off.

I am going to visit the shop this afternoon after work that will be doing the metal work on my car. I saw him at the Fathers Day car show and the owner of this Bugatti Racer [color:"red"](oops it was a Bentley) (I think it was. I do have a picture at home which I can post if anyone is interested) said he is the man I want to do the metal work. He is restoring a Stutz for this man which will be going to Pebble Beach.

post-31137-143137891414_thumb.jpg

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  • Tom M changed the title to 1931 833 Restoration

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