26pack Posted March 26, 2006 Share Posted March 26, 2006 Hi all. I have a problem and I'm hoping I can get some help here. I'm rebuilding a 1926 433 with the 6 cylinder engine. I had the engine rebuilt and the job was done right. All the innards work and a compression test checks out fine. I also had the carb rebuilt. The engine starts but won't idle--it just dies out. Even trying to gun the engine at a higher rpm doesn't work. Now, its getting fuel OK. I put in an electronic fuel pump and I checked- fuel is getting to the carb just fine (also the fuel filter is not blocked up- I checked the fuel flow after the filter). Distributor cap and rotor are fine. Points are gapped correctly and when cranking I can see a spark. Ignition wires are correct, the plugs aren't fouled and they are getting a spark. Finally, the timing seems to be close enough so that the dang thing should at least idle (meaning the timing might need a final fine tune adjustement but it's pretty close right now). One more thing--its new fuel. But still, the car will start but it then just dies out.What could be causing this? Maybe the carb? I guess its possible that the rebuild wasn't a good one and needs to be redone. Maybe some dirt got into it? Could it be a bad condenser? Bad coil?Any advice/suggestions would help a lot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest imported_Speedster Posted March 26, 2006 Share Posted March 26, 2006 I would first suspect the fuel/air mixture not being correct. The amount of gas in mixture is not adjustable (controled by fixed jet in bottom of carb and engine vacuum) but you can control the amount of air with choke and by holding the large air valve, on top of inlet side, Open or Closed, with fingers or with some tool if you're doing it by yourself. When it dies does gas run out of carb onto ground? If it is set too rich (air valve not open enough) a lot will drip out. If none drips out then gas may not be getting thru carb. Either float-valve or jet may be assembled incorrectly or have an air leak (so vacuum is not pulling gas out correctly. The air valve springs always have to adjusted for various RPM ranges while the engine is running. There's no way to adjust those off the car. Is the electric pump connected between the gas-tank and the gravity-feed-tank or does it go directly to carb? Do you have a pressure regulator and where in the line is it located? (directly after the electric pump?) Is there a glass filter bowl at inlet to carb, to determine if plenty of gas is getting to carb? The original carbs have to be gravity feed, with No pressure from pump getting to carb float-valve. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest imported_PackardV8 Posted March 27, 2006 Share Posted March 27, 2006 CLOSELY inspect the low speed (idle) needle and circuit for missing parts. I have no idea what the carb looks like but many early carbs used a small washer under the low speed needle (where it screws into the carb body) that acts as an air bleed restrictor. Missing or sustituted washers can upset the balance causing too lean of a mixture on idle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest imported_Speedster Posted March 27, 2006 Share Posted March 27, 2006 Here's a pic of a '25 engine, which is very similar. Carb is at lower center and the black gravity feed gas tank is on firewall. The carb float bowl is at rear of carb and air inlets are at front. The cover above large air inlet is where the carb air adjusting springs are. The cover is removed to do the carb adjustment, one spring for low RPM air and one spring (inside the first) for high RPM adjustment. There is also a float valve inside the feed-tank which shuts off flow of gas from main tank, when the feed-tank is full. When an electric pump is used to fill the feed-tank, a regulator needs to be set to as low a pressure as possible or the feed-tank can overflow and possible cause a fire, since the vent is at top and above spark plugs and exhaust pipe. It's really best to modify the feed-tanks vent by installing a return line to main tank, since the regulator really needs to be set to less than 1 psi, and most regulators won't go that low. See attachment: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carbking Posted March 27, 2006 Share Posted March 27, 2006 Assuming you have the original Detroit Lubricator carburetor:The idle mixture and high speed mixture on this carburetor are controlled ENTIRELY by the function of 2 large springs. The springs should always be replaced when the carburetor is rebuilt, and adjustment is <span style="font-weight: bold">absolutely critical</span> . Follow the instructions in your shop manual.Another possible issue (if the carburetor is high mileage) is the seal of the airvalve and bushing clearance of the airvalve shaft.As previously mentioned in this thread, if an electric fuel pump is used, the pressure to the carburetor MUST be low (1 ~ 2 pounds). We highly suggest using a self-regulated fuel pump (Federal Mogul has a couple of different, others probably do at well) instead of the dial type regulators which are questionable at best.Finally, like most "automatic" carburetors, these do NOT like a fuel with substantially different characteristics from gasoline (read ethanol).Jon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest imported_PackardV8 Posted March 27, 2006 Share Posted March 27, 2006 "The idle mixture and high speed mixture on this carburetor are controlled ENTIRELY by the function of 2 large springs."Is there anykind of spring seat, collar, washer, seal or other similar type of small part that goes between the spring and the carb body???????? I have ran into several antique carbs (Linkert etc) that required such a detail between the spring and carb body that was either missing or incorrectly replaced that caused severe idle problems. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest imported_Speedster Posted March 27, 2006 Share Posted March 27, 2006 No that is not critical for these springs. They only close the large air valve as engine vacuum pulls it open. The more vacuum, the more it opens and lets in more air. The adjustment is done with lock-nuts at top of valve shaft, and springs seat against the nuts at top end and carb housing at bottom end. It's surprising how well the very simple design actually works. <img src="http://forums.aaca.org/images/graemlins/shocked.gif" alt="" /> If you can get it Adjusted Correctly, That is. <img src="http://forums.aaca.org/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> If Low-RPM spring needs replacing (compressed too much), and you Can't find a new one, you can pull it off and stretch it slightly, to adjust it for more spring force. Don't over do it tho, cause they are much harder to compress adjust, back the other way. There is a lot of adjustment travel, to compensate, tho. <img src="http://forums.aaca.org/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> The Low-RPM spring is the longer, outer one with smaller diameter wire. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrpushbutton Posted March 27, 2006 Share Posted March 27, 2006 The carb king offers sage advice--follow it. If you can lay your hands on a national service book (book about a foot thick, divided by make, year and model, basically a motors manual for people with brains) for that car, go to the back of the book to the carb section and get a photostat of the cutaway diagram for your carb. Study that dwg., and you will understand the cause and effect of any adjustments you make. A Detroit Lubricator is a good carb, but not everything on them is like a Holley!. The Detroit public library NAHC has those books. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest imported_Speedster Posted March 27, 2006 Share Posted March 27, 2006 So what is My Advice? <img src="http://forums.aaca.org/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" /> Chopped Liver? That wasn't Very nice. <img src="http://forums.aaca.org/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" /> If you guys don't appreciate all my input on this forum I can always stop. I've noticed that half the people on this forum seem to Ignore my post, and I'm wondering Why? <img src="http://forums.aaca.org/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" /> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
26pack Posted March 27, 2006 Author Share Posted March 27, 2006 Hey Speedster, I'm not ignoring your advice, or anyone else's for that matter. Anyway, thanks everyone for all the helpful comments and wish me luck as I dive under the hood with wreches and screwdrivers at the ready. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest imported_Speedster Posted March 27, 2006 Share Posted March 27, 2006 jd26pack, That Wasn't Aimed at You. They know who I'm talking about. Good Luck, on finding your Problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom M Posted March 27, 2006 Share Posted March 27, 2006 <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">So what is My Advice? Chopped Liver? </div></div>Rick, Yum chopped liver and onions but the only time I can get it is when we go out to a restaurant. Wife doesn't like cooking it at home. <img src="http://forums.aaca.org/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="http://forums.aaca.org/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" />Your posts are very helpful and informative to me. Thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest imported_Speedster Posted March 27, 2006 Share Posted March 27, 2006 Tom, Thanks, I'm sure you realize that wasn't Aimed at you either. <img src="http://forums.aaca.org/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> You sure are making me Hungry tho, I'm a Liver & Onions Fan, Also. Luckily my wife will cook it, but I get to eat it All Myself. <img src="http://forums.aaca.org/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carbking Posted March 27, 2006 Share Posted March 27, 2006 Rick - I certainly hope it wasn't aimed at us.Jon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest imported_Speedster Posted March 27, 2006 Share Posted March 27, 2006 Of course Not, Jon. I don't Bad-mouth anyone that kinda Agrees With Me. <img src="http://forums.aaca.org/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> LOL <img src="http://forums.aaca.org/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest imported_Speedster Posted March 28, 2006 Share Posted March 28, 2006 I'm Sorry, I was just in a Bad mood earlier today, since I found out our kitchen garbage-disposals motor shorted out and I'm gonna have to buy another and crawl around under the sink to change it out. That would put anyone in a Bad Mood. <img src="http://forums.aaca.org/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" /> Mainly because I'm gonna have to use some of my Packard parts budget to buy it. <img src="http://forums.aaca.org/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" /> Maybe I can find a good one on eBay. <img src="http://forums.aaca.org/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carbking Posted March 28, 2006 Share Posted March 28, 2006 Rick - those garbage disposals are a classic example of an item designed to fail 1 day after the warranty ends <img src="http://forums.aaca.org/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" /> I have a less expensive solution - a cat <img src="http://forums.aaca.org/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />, and a garden. Throw the garbage on the garden. The cat will eat what it wants and the rest makes good compost. <img src="http://forums.aaca.org/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> Pick a long-tailed cat, as they are better mousers (or so say the oldtimers).Jon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest imported_Speedster Posted March 28, 2006 Share Posted March 28, 2006 <img src="http://forums.aaca.org/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> LOL <img src="http://forums.aaca.org/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> I have the Cat, but what Was our Garden area is now a Packard Parking-Lot. <img src="http://forums.aaca.org/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> <img src="http://forums.aaca.org/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> My neighbor does have a compost heap on the other side of my fence. I'm sure he wouldn't mind if I added to it, while our sink is shut down. <img src="http://forums.aaca.org/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> I may have to make a Midnight delivery, tonight. <img src="http://forums.aaca.org/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest imported_PackardV8 Posted March 28, 2006 Share Posted March 28, 2006 Cats??? Garbage disposals???? Are u guys joking???? I'm on such a tite budget i have no idea where my next meal is comming from let alone to worry about getting rid of any left overs that won't exist. I've heard that cat is rather tasty. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest imported_Speedster Posted March 28, 2006 Share Posted March 28, 2006 I've never tryed Cat, but I did eat Rat, while in Vietnam. I thought it was small bird meat and it tasted very good. Then my girlfriend showed me the skull that was still in the rice, after I had finished eating. She first said she didn't tell me because she didn't know the English word for them but then told that it was because she was afraid I would get mad, throw it on the floor and leave. I guess you can eat anything if you're Hungry enough. The only thing I've ever refused to eat were duck eggs with the duck half developed in the shell, feathers and all. They eat those also in Vietnam. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest imported_PackardV8 Posted March 28, 2006 Share Posted March 28, 2006 LRRP ??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest imported_PackardV8 Posted March 28, 2006 Share Posted March 28, 2006 Yeah, i like the oriental girls. But they do some strange things. One gave me a 1/2 used tube of tooth paste as a going away present one time. I guess it was all she had to give as quik gift. There are 3hree things one can never predict about an oriental woman: What's on their mind. Where they've had their hands. What they're putting in your soup. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr Morbius Posted March 28, 2006 Share Posted March 28, 2006 Oh my God , next I'll be wantin' a liver & limberger cheese sandwich ! <img src="http://forums.aaca.org/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" /> <img src="http://forums.aaca.org/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" /> <img src="http://forums.aaca.org/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" /> ..................... Steve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rattpac Posted March 28, 2006 Share Posted March 28, 2006 Wasn't that Delicacy called something like "Balute"? I still cough up some feathers <img src="http://forums.aaca.org/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="http://forums.aaca.org/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="http://forums.aaca.org/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr Morbius Posted March 28, 2006 Share Posted March 28, 2006 Oh I forgot to add - Onions !!! <img src="http://forums.aaca.org/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" /> <img src="http://forums.aaca.org/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" /> <img src="http://forums.aaca.org/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" /> ..............Steve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest imported_49packard Posted March 28, 2006 Share Posted March 28, 2006 Is this the food channel? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest imported_Speedster Posted March 28, 2006 Share Posted March 28, 2006 No, We're just telling 'War' Stories. <img src="http://forums.aaca.org/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> <img src="http://forums.aaca.org/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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