Tom Laferriere Posted March 18, 2006 Posted March 18, 2006 Hi all,What started my fascination with classic cars, specifically old Speedsters, was the movie Chitty Chitty Bang Bang. The finding of an old car, taking it home, working on it in the garage, and then rolling it out to show everyone...priceless! At 39 years old, I keep watching the opening race scenes which appears to use all Authentic cars. Comments?Anyway, I have taken some screen shots of the newest DVD and posted several pictures ON MY SITE Please review them. What was Chitty??Have fun.
1937hd45 Posted March 18, 2006 Posted March 18, 2006 I remember George Button bought both Chittys after the movie came out for $35,000. We thought that was a lot of money at the time. I wonder if the "Race Car" and the driveable Chitty were the same vehicle with just a body swap? I know the flying version was a prop. Thanks for posting the movie shots. It was nice to see the ones with the kids playing in the old wrecked racer. I don't think any of the other racers are "real", just well built props. The little yellow runabout looks to be a real antique.
Guest aussie610 Posted March 18, 2006 Posted March 18, 2006 From memory I think it was an F100, sorry to disapoint,
Tom Laferriere Posted March 18, 2006 Author Posted March 18, 2006 <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">From memory I think it was an F100, sorry to disapoint, </div></div>Yes, I believe Chitty is Ford powered, but I am referring to the the car I have posted above. It seems very authentic. Chain drive and all the details?
1937hd45 Posted March 18, 2006 Posted March 18, 2006 NO, "The Leslie Special" from the Great Race was based on a Ford pickup, I think Chitty was scratch built, it had a V6 for power. There are a lot of guys building clones, there must be a website out there.
Guest De Soto Frank Posted March 20, 2006 Posted March 20, 2006 I believe there was on thread on this here at AACA within the last year?From what I recall, the movie car was largely scratch-built, based on "authentic" vehicles of the period as far as design inspiration, but used mostly Ford components for the running gear... I think the engine was a Ford V-6?The wheels were special cast-aluminum, to mimic wooden artillery wheels of the period, but close examination of the front hubs reveals that they are unusually large for a vehicle of the time... they were made that way for the movie car so that they could "hide" front brakes inside them !While there's a lot of whimsy in the Chitty movie cars, their coachwork is a bit more "period-correct" than the Leslie Special (IMHO)... certainly that polished aluminum bonnet and beautiful boat body are enough to make one drool !I think I was about six years old the first time I saw Chitty-Chitty Bang-Bang, and it really grabbed me... some of the musical numbers wear a bit long, but all the gadgets, sets, and cinematography are breathtaking. And the various characters such as Lionel Jeffries, Gert Frobe, and Benny Hill make it interesting for an adult film buff to watch, even today...It was not until the thread appeared here that I discovered that C-C B-B was NOT a Disney movie... I had always assumed it was, since it had Dick van Dyke in it, it was a musical, looked absolutely magical, etc...And nowadays we have "car movies" like "Gone in 60 Seconds" and "The Fast and the Furious"...
Guest roadtrip Posted March 20, 2006 Posted March 20, 2006 Great picts on the web.... I have some 11a Franklins. One of them has very little of a body and I think I might make it into a racer/speedster on my restored chassis so any picts will help me out on what I want it to look like!!
1937hd45 Posted March 20, 2006 Posted March 20, 2006 Roadtrip, Did you see the 1910? Franklin race car at Hershey 2-3 years ago? Totally unrestored, gerat looking car, and it ran well.
Guest De Soto Frank Posted March 20, 2006 Posted March 20, 2006 Tom,I took a second look at your pics and the ensuing posts... the scorched racer that van Dyke is being towed home in (courtesy of a horse), I believe is a movie prop.Take a good look at the rear wheels... notice how extraordinarily thick the rim section is between the spokes and the tires... I think these are the custom cast aluminum wheels I previously spoke of...As for the chain-drive, side-mounted shifter and hand-brake, and such, all these could have been fairly easily scrounged-up by the movie props people in the mid-1960s... same goes for the drip oiler perched at the top center of the cowl...The boys were probably scouring the auto-jumbles there in Europe... I think the movie cars were built in England ?Also, I think that a true c. 1908 racer would exhibit an exposed pitman arm and drag link for the steering... I think the basic hood, cowl, chassis, are exactly the same as the "transmogrified" Chitty... I would like to know just how they "distressed" the coachwork... the sheetmetal in "scorched Chitty" almost looks like a weathered galvanized bucket...If pretty-Chitty still sported "chain drive", I would opine that they were "dummies", just idling off the rear wheels ?At any rate, I think that the team that designed and built the racer and the finished Chitty knew their craft and did their homework well...
Guest De Soto Frank Posted March 20, 2006 Posted March 20, 2006 And from Wikipedia, via Google:[Chitty Chitty Bang Bang]the car of the film, was not a pre-1930s car at all. Four Chitty Chitty Bang Bangs were purpose-built in 1967 for the film, and these, due to using Ford Zodiac Essex 3.0L V6s, would easily keep up with the fastest vehicles of the day. Different Chittys did different duties (i.e. One was setup for floating out at sea), and Chitty did actually fly (being slung underneath a helicopter in certain scenes). And, about the "real" Chitty...http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chitty_Chitty_Bang_Bang_%28car%29
Amphicar BUYER Posted March 20, 2006 Posted March 20, 2006 From another site aboout where one currently resides in the UK:Production Designer Ken Adam stood firm in his belief that if the film was to be about a car, it had to be about just that and not a mock up. Along with Rowland Emmett ,who had been assigned the task of creating a series of mad inventions to appear in the film, and the Ford racing team headed by Alan Mann, Adam set about creating CHITTY CHITTY BANG BANG. The final product weighed approximately 2 tons, was 17 feet long, and built on a custom made ladder frame chassis. NO detail was spared in her creation. Many traditional forms of car-building were re-employed, and modern technology stepped in to create a vehicle which was both accurate enough to fool veteran car experts when under the microscope of 70mm cinema cameras and hard-wearing enough to withstand everything from driving in sand to driving on cobbled streets and down stair-cases. The wheels were moulded in alloy to replicate the timber wheels which would have been true to the period. The boat deck was of red and white cedar and built by boat-builders in Windsor, and the array of brass fittings were obtained from Edwardian wrecks. What couldn't be obtained was faithfully and accurately re-created. The alloy dashboard plate was from a British World War I fighter plane. All of this was built around a modern Ford V6 engine with Automatic transmission. Chitty rolled out of the workshop in June 1967 and was registered with the number plate GEN 11 given to her by Ian Fleming in his novel. (In the novel, the number plate GEN11 had significance in that if you read the number ones as " i's ", it spelled out the latin word "genii" meaning magical person or being.) Because of the high level of detail on the vehicle and the rough treatment it was about to encounter during film-making, a second "near-identical" vehicle was constructed as a stand-in for the more dangerous scenes and was also used for the "in studio" shots. Another "no-brass / no-engine" dummy version was built to be dunked in sea-water, and another slightly different car was also built for trailer work and to be used as a stand in. Both of these are now on display in England. Another light weight fibreglass shell was mounted on two "disguised" speedboats for sequences "at sea" and was actually seaworthy.
Guest aussie610 Posted March 20, 2006 Posted March 20, 2006 Hay john, looks like you have found the ultimate amphicar.....
Terry Bond Posted March 20, 2006 Posted March 20, 2006 Here is the info on the "real" Chitty - from www.britishmm.co.uk Count Louis Zborowski, the millionaire racing driver son of a Polish Count and an American mother, designed and built three aero-engined cars with assistance from his engineer Captain Clive Gallop. These cars were all known as "Chitty Bang Bang".Chitty I was a chain-driven Mercedes chassis fitted with a 23-litre six-cylinder Maybach aero engine. In 1921, on its first outing, it won two races. At this Easter meeting at Brooklands Zborowski won the 100 mph Brooklands Short Handicap a speed of 100.75 mph (161 kph). At later meetings the car was recorded at almost 120 mph (192 kph) on the straight.By summer 1921 Chitty II was being constructed. This had a shorter wheelbase with a 18,882 cc 230 hp Benz BZ IV aero engine also based on a Mercedes chassis. Both Chitty I and II were run in the same races at Brooklands but this was Chitty II's only racing outing. It was later used as a road car and Zborowski and friends even drove it in the Sahara desert in January 1922.Chitty I was last raced by the Count at the September 1922 race meeting at Brooklands as during practice he left the banking and crashed after shedding a tyre. Although rebuilt, Zborowski never raced the car again.In 1924 Count Zborowski was invited to drive for Mercedes. It was while competing in a Mercedes 2-litre car at the Italian Grand Prix in Monza that the Count was killed after crashing into a tree.At the time of his death, a fourth, much larger car was being built. This car was known as the Higham Special (later to be renamed "Babs") and was the car in which Parry Thomas died at Pendine Sand during his final land speed record attempt in 1927.Chitty I was bought by the Conan Doyle brothers (sons of Sir Aurthur, writer of the "Sherlock Holmes" books) who ran it at a speed trial at Brooklands in the 1930's. The car was on display for some time but was eventually cut up for parts.Chitty II, the only surviving car, was bought by Bill Hollis of Temple Ewell near Dover, Kent from a motor dealer for £300 and a Hillman Aero Minx. Hollis ran a fleet of motor coaches from his Orange Motors business in Dover and Chitty II was kept at his market Square premises. He used it regularly until the outbreak of war. During the war the car was moved to a barn on Hollis' farm at nearby Sutton but was later stored outside under a tarpaulin.An American collector bought Chitty II in the 1960's for £16,500 and it eventually went on display at the Western Reserve Historical Society museum in Cleveland Ohio. Lord Montague of Beaulieu arranged for it to be loaned to The National Motor Museum in Hampshire and had Chitty II shipped to the UK in 1992. It was displayed alongside one of the 1968 Ford powered film cars that had been built by Alan Mann of Surrey.The author Ian Fleming was inspired by the Count and his cars to write the children's novel "Chitty Chitty Bang Bang" which was made into a successful film by MGM in 1968.Terry
Tom Laferriere Posted March 20, 2006 Author Posted March 20, 2006 <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Roadtrip, Did you see the 1910? Franklin race car at Hershey 2-3 years ago? Totally unrestored, gerat looking car, and it ran well. </div></div>See attached
Guest De Soto Frank Posted March 20, 2006 Posted March 20, 2006 23 Litres !That's over 1,400 cubic inches... "Bang-Bang", indeed ! That car must have been deafening !
Guest Albert Posted March 21, 2006 Posted March 21, 2006 Take a look for Blitzen benz for that 1400ci motor, and it was a hand crank!.. here is another pic of the racer..
Guest De Soto Frank Posted March 22, 2006 Posted March 22, 2006 Thanks for the pic, Albert...Was there more than one "Blitzen Benz" ? I seem to remember (from hazy youth) that there was a Blitzen Benz that campaigned around 1911; it was white, and had a four-cylinder engine of around 1,400 cid...? Count Zborowski's car used a Benz/Maybach "aero engine", which would've been either an airplane or zeppelin engine...The car you posted clearly pictures a six-cylinder... (what, only TWO valves per cylinder??? )... I love those yoked push-rods !Where was this Benz captured on film ?
1937hd45 Posted March 22, 2006 Posted March 22, 2006 Frank, I believe there were as many as FOUR "Blitzen-Benz" race cars. Babs the car that Thomas was killed in had the transmission from one of them. I had an original photo of a line up of circa 1923 race cars in Pottsville, Pa. one car had the original radiator from a "Blitzen Benz", this was noted on the back of the photo.
1937hd45 Posted March 22, 2006 Posted March 22, 2006 <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Thanks for the pic, Albert...Was there more than one "Blitzen Benz" ? I seem to remember (from hazy youth) that there was a Blitzen Benz that campaigned around 1911; it was white, and had a four-cylinder engine of around 1,400 cid...? Count Zborowski's car used a Benz/Maybach "aero engine", which would've been either an airplane or zeppelin engine...The car you posted clearly pictures a six-cylinder... (what, only TWO valves per cylinder??? )... I love those yoked push-rods !Where was this Benz captured on film ? </div></div>Frank, Alberts photos are of the FRANKLIN thats at Hershey two years ago, not a "Blitzen-Benz".
Guest De Soto Frank Posted March 22, 2006 Posted March 22, 2006 Doh... Thanks... That rear shot of the racer made me wonder how the hood tilted forward w/o interfering with the radiator... Guess it's a moot point with a FRANKLIN! ( I'm not going to be too embarrrased that I didn't realize I wasn't looking at Benz valve gear... there aren't many pre-war (WW-1)Benzes or Franklins at the shows I get to... although I did notice a wooden cross-member at the rear of the racer, which made me think- gosh, a wooden frame - just like Franklin!)Pottsville, eh ? Nowadays the home of "antique" beer: D.G. Yuengling & Sons...oldest brewery in America, founded in 1829... mighty fine product...
Guest De Soto Frank Posted March 22, 2006 Posted March 22, 2006 Okay,I google Blitzen Benz, and found the following...The original BB was a four-banger, 21 litres (1,280 cid).http://www.benzworld.org/news/news.asp?id=255
Tom Laferriere Posted March 23, 2006 Author Posted March 23, 2006 See attached pic of the young Count
Guest De Soto Frank Posted March 23, 2006 Posted March 23, 2006 I wonder if that's "Babs" ? Look at the size of the front sprockets on the chain drive... methinks this locomotive went pretty fast!Love the searchlight !One of the rear-shots of original Chitty , taken at a garage, shows Count Louis at the wheel, looking back over his left shoulder, and some wag had stuck a stove-pipe elbow and coolie cap into the straight exhaust !By all accounts, Count Louis enjoyed life !
Restorer32 Posted March 23, 2006 Posted March 23, 2006 Ahh yes...Chitty Chitty Bang Bang. This was my Son's (now 22) favorite movie as a tyke and I know I watched it with him at least 500 times. Now he works for me in the resto shop and is busy building an ALF Speedster for a customer. Think there is a connection?
1937hd45 Posted March 23, 2006 Posted March 23, 2006 <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I wonder if that's "Babs" ? </div></div>Frank, That is the scond Chitty now painted white and green and is/was part of the Crawford Collection in Ohio. "Babs" was dug up and restored @20 years ago and is somewere in England I believe, and has a rear from a "Blitzen-Benz". Funny how three AACA Forum threads are all related to the same cars.
Tom Laferriere Posted March 23, 2006 Author Posted March 23, 2006 <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I wonder if that's "Babs" ? Look at the size of the front sprockets on the chain drive... methinks this locomotive went pretty fast!Love the searchlight</div></div> This car is for sale modeled after the Counts carTom
1937hd45 Posted March 23, 2006 Posted March 23, 2006 <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> This car is for sale modeled after the Counts carTom </div></div>You beat me Tom, I was going to post the same thing. that is THE BEST American LaFrance speedster I've ever seen! Is the hobby ready for a new term to discribe these Beasts? What do they call the Aero powered cars that are being built up in England?
Tom Laferriere Posted March 23, 2006 Author Posted March 23, 2006 <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Is the hobby ready for a new term to discribe these Beasts? What do they call the Aero powered cars that are being built up in England? </div></div> Look at this! Now thats big!Tom
Guest De Soto Frank Posted March 23, 2006 Posted March 23, 2006 I saw the My Classic Car anthology DVD with all the Jay Leno visits, including the HisSo "Aero-racer" and the Blastolene monster...Leno looks he's having WAY too much fun...
Guest roadtrip Posted August 17, 2006 Posted August 17, 2006 Just wondering if the Blue #7 car in the race at the beginnig of the show was in fact a Franklin or just have a Franklin looking hood?
Guest stude8 Posted August 18, 2006 Posted August 18, 2006 A few years ago at the Harry A. Miller meet in Milwaukee, WI a man from Michigan by the name of Eby who is prominent in Mercer circles had a very informative photo display that included commentary about the Blitzen Benz's. In conversation he mentioned that we may soon know of a replication in the UK from some sleuth who had aquired what is purported to be the remains of one of the long lost Blitzen cars. Nothing more than frame rails and a gear box as the story went but certainly pieces of the Holy Grail just the same. He had some estate letters from a son to his mother who was in Germany test driving the monster as it was being built! Something about 21 liter power that stirs a mans soul. By the way thank you Terry Bond for the accurate post mortem account, I was going to try to locate some earlier story of the Count posted on Prewarcar.com but it is late here and I am too tired tonight. Stude8
Rich Niezabitowski Posted August 18, 2006 Posted August 18, 2006 Just a couplr of comments:The man who died in BABS is often referred to as "Parry Thomas". Actually, his name was "John Parry-Thomas". Babs was indeed dug up in 1969 by an English professor named Owen Wyn Owen. It is now on display amongst the Dunes at Pendine Beach where it originally crashed.
1937hd45 Posted August 18, 2006 Posted August 18, 2006 One of the "Blitzen Benz" race cars was broken up in the Phidelphia area in the late teens. The radiator was used on a local race car at that time. The rear in the Thomas LSR car "Babs" is from one of the "Blitzen Benz" cars, may have been from the one in Philadelphia.
24T42 Posted August 19, 2006 Posted August 19, 2006 If you go to Star Cars on the Junior AACA site, I have some information on Chitty Chitty Bang Bang (some has already been related here). Star Cars on Junior AACA
Guest stude8 Posted August 19, 2006 Posted August 19, 2006 I know this is getting further away from Chitty Chitty but for the record the following links will give a good synopsis of the Blitzen-Benz story. Stude8http://www.autoemirates.com/Classic/0731-Blitzen-Benz.asphttp://www.prewarcar.com/read_article.asp?ID=718http://www.prewarcar.com/read_article.asp?ID=1033
1937hd45 Posted August 19, 2006 Posted August 19, 2006 stude8, Thanks for that last link on the exWaterman Benz. A sister car to that one was is the Tompson collection in Ohio for years, the exLarry Beals car. That was sold 5-6 years ago and is now back in Germany. It finished 4th in the first ever Indy 500 when Spencer Wisehart of Phildelphia owned it. I always like these race car links they always turn up a new bit of information.
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