Carburator Size, used on '29 Standard & Super-8 ?

[Guest imported_Speedster]

Did the '29 Standard-8 and Super-8 use different size carbs? The carb mounting bolt holes are 3 3/8" apart in the manifold I got with the 645 and they are 3" apart in the 626s manifold and all three '29 carbs I have. <img src="http://forums.aaca.org/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" /> Was the Super-8 carb larger at mounting flange or has someone modified this manifold for a different carb, that was larger ? (Which I Wouldn't doubt since someone had also souped it up with a special high-compression head) The 645 didn't have a carb with it, when I got it. <img src="http://forums.aaca.org/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" /> The '29 Parts manual shows two different part numbers for carbs but not if the mounting flange was different size.

Anyone have a '29 or '30 Super-8 manifold or carb that can be measured? Thanks

[Guest imported_Speedster]

Looks Like I've found another question that No one knows the answer to. <img src="http://forums.aaca.org/images/graemlins/shocked.gif" alt="" />

That's 2 in 2 months ! <img src="http://forums.aaca.org/images/graemlins/shocked.gif" alt="" />

Surely someone has a 385 Super-8 manifold they can measure ??? <img src="http://forums.aaca.org/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" />

If not, then you all need to increase your Packard collections. About 3 more would do it. One in the '20s, one '29 thru '34 and one in the late '30s. Then you will all become well rounded, knowledgeable Packard Owners. <img src="http://forums.aaca.org/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

[Guest imported_Speedster]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> then you all need to increase your Packard collections. About 3 more would do it. One in the '20s, one '29 thru '34 and one in the late '30s. Then you will all become well rounded, knowledgeable Packard Owners. <img src="http://forums.aaca.org/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> </div></div>

On Second thought, Maybe that's not such a Good Idea. <img src="http://forums.aaca.org/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" /> Then, you would all be buying the Parts, I Need. <img src="http://forums.aaca.org/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" /> <img src="http://forums.aaca.org/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

[Restorer32]

Did they use a Detroit Lubricator carb in '29?

[Tom M]

Restorer32,

That is the type I have on my '31.

Rick,

I can measure mine tonight and get back to you.

[Guest imported_Speedster]

Restorer32,

Yes, the Bronze ones. I know that both were visually similar, cause I have pictures of restored engines and carbs are similar design. I'm starting to think that there are 2 different size carbs, but not sure yet? I noticed that the ones on Super-8 engines, in pictures, were all painted Black. Maybe that was how they could visually tell the difference: Unpainted for Standard-8 and Painted black for Super-8 ?

[Guest imported_Speedster]

Tom,

Doesn't your car have the Standard-8 engine? What I need is a measurement of the Super-8 carb. And I think '31 used a different carb and manifold, but not sure?

[26pack]

If you go to the Packard Club website, www.packardclub.org, under "Reference", there is a special heating for carbs. It lists all of them from 1899 through 1958. Hope this helps.

[Restorer32]

According to my Radco Carb and Motor Tune Up Manual the '29 Packard 645 used a Johnson carb with the Detroit Lube not used until 1930. I know that by 1931 there were 2 sizes of Detroit Lube carbs, Standard and Super.

[Restorer32]

Looks like both the Johnson and Detroit Lube were used and, yes, there were 2 sizes of Detroit Lube Carbs. These carbs, especially the Super 8's, are very expensive, think $500-1000 or more for a solid unrestored Super 8 carb. Talk to Henry Yeska for more info.

[Guest imported_Speedster]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> yes, there were 2 sizes of Detroit Lube Carbs. These carbs, especially the Super 8's, are very expensive, think $500-1000 or more for a solid unrestored Super 8 carb. </div></div>

Ouch! I was Afraid you were going to say that. <img src="http://forums.aaca.org/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" /> I may have to modify one of these Standard-8 carbs, that I have, to fit. <img src="http://forums.aaca.org/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" /> Unless I can find someone that wants to trade, carbs?

[Guest imported_Speedster]

jd26Pack,

Thanks for the website link, I didn't think to look there. <img src="http://forums.aaca.org/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Good Information! <img src="http://forums.aaca.org/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

[Tom M]

Restore and Rick,

I don't have the Detroit Lube it is a Linkhart and all brass.

Rick,

Yes mine is the standard 8.

[carbking]

The following link will explain which carburetors were used on which cars by application:

http://www.thecarburetorshop.com/Kpackard.htm

This information was supplied to the Packard Club several years ago, but has been updated with new information since then.

The standard 8 and super 8 did use different size carburetors. The easiest way to tell the different is to look at the number of screws holding the bowl to the throttle body. All of the super 8 carburetors used 4 screws (2 on each side) while the standard 8 used only 2 screws (1 on each side). The "fly in the ointment" are some export carburetors which do not follow the domestic applications.

With all due respect to the poster giving an estimated cost; good luck on finding a solid core at those prices.

Due to the scarcity and price of these carburetor many enthusiasts replace them with replacement carburetors. The problem with using the replacement carburetors is fabricating the necessary linkage to replace the original throttle linkage (unique to Packard). If one is capable of fabricating the throttle linkage; then the standard 8 carb may be replaced with CERTAIN models of Carter BB-1, Stromberg SF-3, or Zenith 63AW12 while the super 8 unit may be replaced with CERTAIN models of the Stromberg SF-4 or Zenith 63AW14.

Jon.

[Guest imported_Speedster]

Jon,

Thank you very much for the Info and web-link. <img src="http://forums.aaca.org/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

I wonder how hard it would be to make a stacked-plate-Adapter, (2 plates with tube welded between them) and use one of my Standard-8 carbs, on the Super-8 manifold? Since I'll have to modify the linkage anyway, it may be better to try an adapter, instead of trying to buy another type carb and make it fit? Since I'm Not going to be trying to brake any speed records with this car, I think the smaller carb should be sufficient. An adapter would be better than modifying the carb or manifold. I could use the adapter until I found a real Super-8 carb, that is affordable. <img src="http://forums.aaca.org/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Do you know if all Detroit Super-8 Carbs are supposted to painted black? If not, what's the deal with the black ones?

[carbking]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> Jon,

Thank you very much for the Info and web-link. <img src="http://forums.aaca.org/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

I wonder how hard it would be to make a stacked-plate-Adapter, (2 plates with tube welded between them) and use one of my Standard-8 carbs, on the Super-8 manifold? Since I'll have to modify the linkage anyway, it may be better to try an adapter, instead of trying to buy another type carb and make it fit? Since I'm Not going to be trying to brake any speed records with this car, I think the smaller carb should be sufficient. An adapter would be better than modifying the carb or manifold. I could use the adapter until I found a real Super-8 carb, that is affordable. <img src="http://forums.aaca.org/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Do you know if all Detroit Super-8 Carbs are supposted to painted black? If not, what's the deal with the black ones? </div></div>

Rick - don't do it!!! There is a vast difference in engine size (319 CID vs 385 CID). You run the risk of burning up the super 8 engine by trying to use the standard 8 carb.

As far as the painted carburetors, I lost an argument on this one <img src="http://forums.aaca.org/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" /> with a good friend, as he supplied a Packard print showing the Detroit model 51 carbs were originally painted with wrinkle-finish black paint. The external fitting (throttle arm, screws, etc.) were originally nickel plated (but AACA has been accepting chrome, with is more durable).

If you really want to use the standard 8 carb on the super 8, fabricate a new manifold and use TWO, not ust one! That would be about right.

Jon.

[Guest imported_Speedster]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> he supplied a Packard print showing the Detroit model 51 carbs were originally painted with wrinkle-finish black paint. </div></div>

So, It's acceptable to have both Standard and Super-8 carbs painted Black ?

I have 4 (including the 1 on my 626) Detroit Standard-8 carbs and I don't think any of them were ever painted ???

[Guest imported_Speedster]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">If you really want to use the standard 8 carb on the super 8, fabricate a new manifold and use TWO, not ust one! That would be about right.</div></div>

That would be COOL! <img src="http://forums.aaca.org/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" /> I could have it Idle on one and then have the other open up at about 1500rpm. That would WOW the neighbors. <img src="http://forums.aaca.org/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

But I don't understand how one smaller carb could damage the engine? As long as the fuel-air ratio is correct for the one carb, it would be like not opening the throttle all the way, on a larger carb, wouldn't it? It's when the fuel-air ratio is not correct, mainly if mixture is too lean? I can see how there is a possibility of a too Rich a mixture (since there's not much control of the main jet) but not too lean. And I think the large air-inlet could be opened more (reduce spring tension) to compensate for a rich condition?

[carbking]

Rick - the key is in the velocity of air going through the carburetor. Generally, a smaller carburetor will run much RICHER if placed on a much larger engine, up to the point where the carburetor is too small to provide the airflow, and then it goes lean. With the Detroit being an "automatic" carburetor where the metering is controlled by a tensioned spring, it is much more difficult to recalibrate the carburetor for a different engine. Can it be done? Yes. Do you have an engine dynomometer and a spring winding machine?

The print supplied was a standard 8 carb; if they painted it, then chances are good they also painted the super 8.

Jon.

[Guest imported_Speedster]

Like you say, they are not easy carbs to adjust for all rpm ranges, but I do have experience adjusting that type carb, since I've tryed and adjusted 3 of my carbs on the 626. (I was testing, to see which carb worked the best and if there was any difference in them) The 2 springs are adjusted with nuts on the threaded air-valve shaft, and since there is a wide range of adjustment possible, I think I could get it optimized for the larger displacement engine. It would be a fun experiment to try, even if I couldn't. <img src="http://forums.aaca.org/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> It wouldn't take more that a few hours to fab up the adapter to try. If it doesn't work, then I'll save up my pennies for a larger carb. But it's going to be a long time before I'm ready to hang a carb on it, so maybe I'll get lucky and find the 'real thing' before then. <img src="http://forums.aaca.org/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> <img src="http://forums.aaca.org/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> Oh, and My Dynomometer is the same type they used in '29, my Eyes and Ears. <img src="http://forums.aaca.org/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> <img src="http://forums.aaca.org/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

[carbking]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> If it doesn't work, then I'll save up my pennies for a larger carb. But it's going to be a long time before I'm ready to hang a carb on it, so maybe I'll get lucky and find the 'real thing' before then. <img src="http://forums.aaca.org/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> <img src="http://forums.aaca.org/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> Oh, and My Dynomometer is the same type they used in '29, my Eyes and Ears. <img src="http://forums.aaca.org/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> <img src="http://forums.aaca.org/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> </div></div>

The "real things" are available, just pricey.

Jon.