F14CRAZY

Supercharging (this time, it's real)

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C O N G R A T U L A T I O N S ! ! ! ! F14!!!

If I had a son, I'd be proud for him to accomplish HALF the achievments you've displayed, young man!

Did I mention I have TWO SINGLE DAUGHTERS?????

post-38921-143137886933_thumb.jpg

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You two make a beautiful couple, Philip!!

Guess I'll have to tell my girls to keep looking for a son for me!

You'll be a hard act to follow, of course!!

I told the girls - Requirement #1 - he must like Reatta convertibles, (his own, not mine!!)

The rest is up to their own taste. But, I'll still have some input!

Based upon thier respective choices, there may a special "wedding gift" involved!

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Ha thank you.

As 2seater suggested, I replaced my oxygen sensor with a system reset...seems to be running the same.

I played around with it a little more, and if applied slowly, I can run up to 4200+ rpm (in neutrel). But still, any stab or reasonable application of the throttle will get it to choke/hesitate. Under normal loads, you really can't get any good acceleration. Hard to maintain speed going up gently sloped hills at 55 mph.

Gonna go on and do the fuel pump this week.

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I'm working on it laugh.gif

I nearly forgot about that. I will be investigating it tomorrow (with pix)

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Congratulations! Knew you were smart, just by what you have accomplished sort of "seat o' the pants". I think the TV cable connection you are looking for might just unbolt from the original LN3 throttle and could be transferred to the L67 t/b? The TPI throttle body I have looks to have the same linkage and connections as the LN3, including the little arm for the TV cable. It appears to be retained by a single nut and appears to be a discrete part that can be removed. The reason I say this is the '91 Buick would likely have the "E" transmission, but this t/b came from a Pontiac and they retained the mechanical transaxle for a couple of years beyond some Buicks. I would doubt GM used a dedicated throttle body for each of them.

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Thanks 2seater.

I'll investigate the cable further. What is it for exactly? I found the square hole in the LN3's "throttle body plate" but not in the L67's plate. With my glance, the linkage on the L67's throttle body doesn't provide for where the cable would connect to it, but I'll compare it with my LN3 throttle body and see if it can be swapped over.

And will post photos of the MAF, if there's anything interesting to see

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<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Today I bought my own fuel pressure gauge and a new Bosch oxygen sensor. Now, I can get my own readings whenever I please.

During the 1st two seconds with key on, engine off, I read 40 psi. Then, it drops to 38. Within 5 minutes, it drops to 30 psi.

Is this normal, or a sign of an injector stuck open? I'm still going to get a new pump (Ryan suggests one for a '89 Turbo Trans Am) and mess with that, but wanted to give you these readings and let you guys know that I have my own gauge and can check it whenever you think it should be.

After installing the new oxygen sensor, should I go ahead and start the car and report back new ECM readings? Thank you guys so much for all the help and advice on this project. A big, complex, expensive puzzle. And sometimes, you need to make your own peices. Or make some pieces fit. But we'll figure it out smile.gif </div></div>

I wouldn't go jumping in and replacing a fuel pump yet, check your readings first. Not that a higher output pump would be bad, but you may not need it.

Don't worry about the O2 sensor at this time, in fact you could unplug it for the testing phase. Clear the codes by unhooking the battery (or BLM reset function on a scan tool). This will prevent the ECM from performing fuel correction until you get everything else right. With the O2 unplugged, the ECM should show a reading ~450mV. This will set an SES, but won't be a problem for testing.

Try gapping your spark plugs to .025" and see if that helps. DIS is a somewhat weak ignition system and with the boost you've added can easily flame out, especially if you're running a bit lean.

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<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Yes, the L67 throttle linkages use the two cables. One's for the pedal and the other's the cruise control. However, the LN3 uses a 3rd cable that runs to the top of the transmission. It's a pretty short cable. I checked on our regular LN3 cars again and the black plate that's used do use this cable. I just need to figure out how to attached it to the linkages using the old plate. The L67 linkages don't have a provision for this cable. </div></div>

You definately want the TV cable. This controls transmission shifting and pressure. Avoid driving it much until it's connected and properly adjusted.

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I'll get new ECM readings today, with the oxygen sensor unplugged. And will check the fuel rail pressure. And investigate the MAF.

Might not get to it today, but will keep the plug gapping in mind.

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sc39.jpg

Above are the two MAF sensors. The L67 has the extra black plastic surrounding the wires. I installed the normal LN3 one, which is known to be good. Below are my ECM readings for today, engine near operating temperature, MAF connected, but as Trofeo suggested, oxygen sensor disconnected. RPMs at 1500-1650 RPM...

ED01: .56

ED06: 3.9-4

ED07: .45 (expected from what Trofeo said)

ED08: 28 degrees

ED10: 0 degrees

ED17: 315

ED18: 16-22

ED19: 128

ED20: 158

ED21: 8.5-9.1

ED23: 6 degrees

ED98: 1

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Now, at idle. 750-775 RPM...

ED01: .48 (TPS from L67, with non-oval holes is being used).

ED06: 4.1-4.3

ED07: all over the place tongue.gif as oxygen sensors are

ED08: 18 degrees

ED16: 0 degrees

ED17: 518

ED18: 0-9

ED19: 130-139

ED20: 170

ED21: 4.3-4.5

ED22: 54

ED23: 40 degrees

ED98:0

After changing the MAF, I did connect the battery and discharged the system to reset the ECM. I also took fuel pressure readings. At idle, we're doing 32 PSI.

With easy application of the throttle, I've been able to get to 4200+ RPM. Never did think redlining without load was a good thing, but we've still got some room. At this speed, I'm reading 38 PSI. With a little jab at the throttle, it'll quickly jump up to around 40 and then come back down as the engine bogs out. The pressure slowly rises as throttle is applied (from idle and 32 PSI to near WOT, 38 PSI).

Is there anything I should do special in my testing and when gathering readings? I'm still not quite understanding my ECM data and how it comes together, but I'm learning.

Trofeo: I didn't get to it today, but would you still suggest that I change the plug gapping?

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With ED-20 at 170 the engine is trying to add max fuel. What is ED04 (coolant temp reading). If BLM is staying that high and the engine is bogging, it sounds like it is going waay rich but if you are getting crosscounts, the mixture is rite.

With no load, the engine should not bog. Is the tailpipe black and sooty ?

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The coolant temp was around 180 F, which is what my thermostat is, and Ryan programmed the fans to come on at the right times for it (and they're working).

I just went outside again to check on the smoke. I ran a finger on the inside of the outlet and I'd say that there isn't an abnormal amount of carbon or whatever it is. Never did it this kind of thing before, so I ran another finger in the tailpipe of the Select 60 and Claret (both known good running cars) and came out about the same. In my testing, I didn't stand behind the vehicle to check, but I didn't notice any black smoke.

Padgett: do you suppose you could explain the crosscounts again? I remember the BLM...below 128 is on the lean side, 128 is optimal, and over 128 is rich...um, right?

Thank you

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I wonder if you try a stock PROM if it will rev? don't run it long but just to see if the car will rev to check if it is the PROM causing the car to bog or it is a seperate issue. you could even use a 90 PROM to see or the 91 PROM would be good to because of the larger injectors the series one uses. I would try the prom out of the 91 and see if the car still bogs.

correct me if this is a bad idea, but I am wondering if the PROM is not allowing this car to run correctly and Ryan over did the fuel for the car.

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Well, I suppose that's possible with me running rich. Won't do anything quite yet, but I have a '90 Lesabre memcal (which ran my Reatta in stock form perfectly fine, but instrumentation was impaired) and a '91 Reatta memcal (currently in ECM).

I have the Lesabre memcal cuz last year we had some work done on my car...they replaced the ECM with the lesabre's but the dumbasses didn't bother to glance at the instrument panel and ECC. As Padgett suggested, I swapped my old memcal into the "new" ECM and everything went back to normal.

I have the '91 ECM because before this, we were going to have Ryan do a series II L67 swap and the ECM was going to be needed.

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I got a reply from Ryan...

<span style="font-weight: bold">Philip, if your fuel pressure is dropping off with higher RPM's or more boost present, the fuel system is not adequate for the job. Can I assume you are using the stock L67 fuel rail and pressure regulator along with the injectors?

Don't try to use the LN3 MAF sensor in this engine. I reprogrammed your chip to work with the L67 MAF sensor, which is calibrated differently.

Don't set the plug gap at 0.025". That is far too small. A plug gap setting of 0.050" is what I would use.

What were the O2 sensor readings just before it started missing? How about when it was missing?

Could you provide me with the actual names for the data points listed "EDxx"?

-ryan</span>

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Got yet another reply from him. I resent my readings, for he requested that I lable the EDxx codes

<span style="font-weight: bold">It looks like the INT and BLM counts are high, which means the ECM is trying to add fuel for a lean condition.</span>

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Wow, there are so many good questions in this thread. Lets see if I can help out...

For the boost gauge hookup, you don't need to tap and drill anything on the lower intake manifold, at least not with this intake. That black vacuum block that sticks out of the top-front of the SC does "see" boost. The fuel pressure regulator and boost bypass solenoid should already be connected to this block. You can connect a boost gauge here.

As far as the MAF's are concerned, the LN3 and L67 units are definitely calibrated differently. I have reprogrammed Philip's chip to work with the L67 MAF sensor.

Plug gap on stock L67 engines is 0.060" using platinum plugs. If one were using copper plugs, I suggest a gap of 0.050" as a starting point.

Fuel pumps and pressure. I don't have the base fuel pressure specs for the Series 1 L67 right off hand, but I do know without the vac line plugged into the regulator and the engine running the pressure should be about 40-45psi. With boost pressure, the fuel pressure should rise 1psi for every 1psi of boost. If it is not, or the fuel pressure actually drops under boost, then the stock fuel system is not keeping up with the fuel demands of the engine. Which brings me to my next point.

Stock, naturally aspirated fuel pumps are designed to supply an adequate amount of fuel for the engines they are designed to work with; usually up to 45psi. However, at higher pressures these same pumps cannot supply the required fuel flow volume boosted engines demand which is why I suggested Philip install a pump designed for "boost duty".

-ryan

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So...should I get a pressure reading with the regulator vacuum line disconnected?

Keep in mind, that with RPM, it's indeed rising (idle:32 psi, 4000+ rpm: 38)

I don't know the stock LN3 gapping at the moment, though my plugs are fairly new and were gapped when I put them in. Should I change them to the 0.060''?

Ryan: would you like to use the board or email for communication?

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<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Ryan: would you like to use the board or email for communication? </div></div>

Hey, if the two of you don't mind, please do use the board. Although some of this is above my gray head, it is great gear-head stuff! Better than any of those reality TV shows! We're rootin' for ya. ROCK ON smile.gif>

cool.gif

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before I forget, before you get on that car get that tranny Detent cable connected! my dad's van crapped out a tranny because that cable frayed and streched.

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