F14CRAZY

Supercharging (this time, it's real)

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Philip,

When the L-67 Balancer was installed how did the belts appear to line up? Was the L-67 Balancer bottoming out on the crank shaft nub? My first thought is to have an adaptor cone machined, ID to suit the 3.8L crank shaft and the tapered portion to suit the taper profile of the L-67 Harmonic Balancer. A slot would have to be cut in the cone adaptor ans a deeper key made/ machined to mate the whole thing. Doable if the balancer is actually bottoming out. Any damage/ scoring on the nose of the crank?

A competant machinist could knock these parts off in a couple of hours given all the detail and parts to fit/ measure from. If it fits right the slotted taper piece locks onto the key as the Balancer bolt is tightened. It may never come off though!

The high idle will settle down, it's the ECM relearning the IAC/ TPS/ Block Learn process. Mine being a standard tranny I could feather away from a standing start. Any hills you can coast off of to fire up in neutral and dump her into gear. I'm suspecting you're going to have to drive her/ closed loop/ at highway speed to get her to learn all the new tricks.

Interesting fact is that the ECM builds long term memory, I've encountered this only once when first going to the 3800 NA setup. After that the ECM obviously retained that base data-A Smart Cart!

Good luck and you're welcome, I feel somewhat vindicated!

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Thank you Greg. The crankshaft end didn't have any damage. I'm going to bring the balancers to our machinist and see what he can do. He's really cool to chat with anyway.

I'll see about giving it a running start in neutrel, starting it, and putting it in drive. I forgot you kind of didn't have that problem

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Sorry for not answering all your questions...

The L67 balancer was indeed lining up and bottoming out on the crankshaft, so no real issues there.

I'm pretty close to an I-69 ramp. I suppose we could tow the car there and get a running start (it's kind of a steep ramp). About how long/far do we need to drive it?

Besides the balancer, I need to figure out my fuel line situation...I cut of the original threaded fittings on the Reatta fuel lines (that go to the fuel rail). I need lines that have compression fittings on one end and the quick-coupler setup on the L67 fuel rail. I rigged it up with rubber hose and clamps...I don't trust it anymore even without driving it, so I'm going to address that too before driving

I also do need to have my exhaust rewelded from when I cut it to test the cat, and may have the like new muffler from the Select 60 swapped in. My muffler is original and probably going to blow pretty soon. Then a front and rear alignment (recall that I replaced all struts).

And I need to do an oil change

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Driving time to get the IAC to settle down? My recollection, this was several years ago, it was a couple of outings and it worked its' way down to normal. Come to think of it, there were a couple of occasions in very cold weather where I had an elevated idle, but I think that got dealt with in programming.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> I need to figure out my fuel line situation... </div></div>

I did the same "quick and Dirty" hose and clamps routine and wasn't happy with the looks of it. I scavanged tube ends from a Junk Yard that would suit the Factory Quick Connects, had them brazed onto tube compression fittings and then got high pressure/ stainless wrapped hose (two different sizes as you know) and had those assemblies made up. An A/C guy and a hydraulics shop combined, I think they ended up costing less the $100. for the pair. In my case I had installed a fuel harness(plastic) foe a '91 Riv and had the corresponding connectors to mate up to. Wish I was a few thousand miles closer to Home and I could pop you a pic!

If you're thinking about exhaust work you should definitely consider a 2-1/2" system. That's most likely what was on the car the S/C came off. You've got to let her breathe.

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Just for S&G try putting it into service mode. AFAIR that commands a 1000 rpm idle. Then kick out once you get moving. Something is niggling about the IAC resetting when you get over 38 mph.

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<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Just for S&G try putting it into service mode. AFAIR that commands a 1000 rpm idle. Then kick out once you get moving. Something is niggling about the IAC resetting when you get over 38 mph. </div></div>

Uh, say what Padgett?

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Please allow me to translate for our elder statesman:

S&G.........sheetz and giggles

AFAIR.......as far as I recall

niggling....having to do with a nagging thought

cool.gif

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SUCCESS! cool.gif

The L67 harmonic balancer had a ridge in the bore, which was stopping it from going on. I took it to our machinist, and he checked both balancers against each other. He used calipers, some weird things, and micrometers and measured the top and bottom of the bore. They're within a thousanth of each other.

Anyway, my dad and I later noticed a ridge in the bore. After careful Dremel and sandpaper work, we put it on with the L67 CPS. It slid on and I found the key with no issues. She fired up! We pushed it outside so we could have it on the gravel when we put it in gear with the 2300 rpm or so idle (my dads idea). It actually didn't spin. Took it for a drive of maybe 12 miles and ran it up to 80 mph and everything in between. Ryan's S/C 1.0a program is doing really good, with only a tiny bit of hesitation. Sometimes, none at all. Probably more noticable because my exhaust still needs welding (gonna have it done tomorrow, drove with windows open and all). Loud as f!$k.

No leaks or other issues. Idle seems to be around 2k. I then went back home and tried Ryan's first program he sent me (didn't disconnect battery, do I need to?) and there's a bit more hesitation in that program. Recall that he adjusted some stuff I can't remember at the moment. The 1.1 program, with adjusted timing, wouldn't start the car.

Right now, performance is at least close to what a stock Reatta pulls. We've come a long way. Remind me to get some drinks for you guys grin.gif I've got a pair of Buick S/C emblems...any suggestions? I'm thinking one below the rear Reatta emblem.

It only took us 10 forum pages smile.gif

What ECM readings would you like, and at what mph/rpm?

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I like the idea of a "Q" ship and would not use any supercharger emblems.

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http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2006-1/1138028/SCFender.jpg

Tastefully understated!

About cycling to get the IAC to settle in to it's new reality. Padgett said exceeding 38 mph was, he thought, part of that process. I'm thinking it took several repetitions, Stop/ Start/ Drive (over 38 mph) You're on your way as I think you mentioned it was, when first started up, running at 3300> down to 2300> now down to 2000 rpm.

When you change the PROM are you unplugging the ECM harness (3 of) If you are then that would be the same as disconnecting the Battery. I would think you should, either unplug the ECM, or disconnect toe Battery to clear the memory, particularly where you're swapping PROMs.

Still confused about the Harmonic Balancer business, if the L-67 Pulley Set is not a tapered bore how in the world did you manage to get it on the Shaft such that you imprinted a new keyway in its' bore? You're saying the machinist measured it and it's a uniform bore? But it has an internal ridge that makes it a press fit?

Got me confoosed!

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Glad to hear you got it running. As far as the high idle is concerned, there is a "learning" proceedure the ECM goes thru at about 40mph or so where it bottoms out the IAC which resets the counts in the ECM. However, even if this wasn't performed you still shouldn't have an issue with this high of an idle. 2000 still sounds way too high.

What are the IAC counts doing?

Desired idle?

ECM going into closed loop ok?

O2 sensor voltage moving around like it should?

TPS voltage at idle?

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<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I like the idea of a "Q" ship and would not use any supercharger emblems. </div></div>

Could you clarify for us initially challenged Southerners?? confused.gif

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<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I like the idea of a "Q" ship and would not use any supercharger emblems. </div></div>

Could you clarify for us initially challenged Southerners?? confused.gif </div></div>

Origins in WW2 (World War ii) where a fast heavily armed boat was disguised with plywood and canvas to look like lumbering merchant vessel which would be an easy target for a U boat. The U boat would expose itself to take a shot, the Q ship would spring to life, spin around, scare the heck out of the U boat and sink the U boat.

Today it has been adopted to refer to a car that has been modified to go like a bat out of hell yet look like an ordinary sedate family man's boulevard cruiser. My old 89 Taurus SHO looked like a conservative family man's 4 door car but with the Yamaha 220hp engine with the standard transmission it boasted a 0 - 60 of 6.6 seconds making the nicest "angry" sounds AND after I did the cat back, cold air induction, throttle body and headers it was much faster and many fast "sports and high performance" cars got good views of its rear bumper. Yet when I would go blasting by a cop on the Interstate, his head would snap up, he would eye me in my conservative working man's family car and I would escape a ticket and he would go back to his donuts. Now if I drove a red sports car.

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Drove a bit more today. The L67 TPS was reading like 0.58, so I switched back to the LN3 TPS with idle set at 0.38. With a battery disconnect. It's doing A LOT better right now, with idle around 1000 rpm. Yay! I went to Geldhof in Charlotte to have my exhaust welded up for a mere $25.

I'll get those readings later. Anything else I should get, like BLM and stuff? Low to mid throttle performance is pretty much right on.

And yes, you can hear the S/C spinning grin.gif

I'll get a pic later, but I applied a S/C emblem on the rear on the opposite side of the Reatta emblem.

Will my MPG calculations still be about correct? I'm still reading around 25 cool.gif

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<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> Will my MPG calculations still be about correct? I'm still reading around 25 </div></div>

Nope,

The MPG calculation being based on ? is going to be off/ high by about 10% as I recall from mine. Don't know if uses a factor from the Fuel Injector Pulse width, or vaccuum, anyway it should prove to be altered to the high side. In other words it's going to regisrer better economy that the car actually yields.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> And yes, you can hear the S/C spinning </div></div>

Hopefully not too loudly otherwise you've got a bearing/ gearbox drive issue. Remembered to put in the S/C Lube did we!

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Aye.

Yup, did properly refill the oil in the S/C. It's not loud, but it sounds cool.

Time to finish the Car-Puter! cool.gif

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Got to drive it quite a bit today. Idle is below 1k rpm cool.gif. It's doing pretty good. You can accelerate from a light at a firm pace without much throttle. Heck, on the freeway, you don't need much at all. Only issue I noticed though is at like 55-60 mph, I can't get it to lockup, uh, cuz I'm hardly stepping on the gas. Not a problem to worry about at this time though grin.gif.

Don't think it's related, but it seems I have a transmission fluid leak somewhere. My dad and I jacked up the car and couldn't locate it, looked both off and engine running (even in drive). It's on the bottom on the passenger side. Oil's getting on the cat and burning and a little of a mess on the bottom of the floor. Not a major leak. I checked the fluid level and it's still in the middle of the crossed area. Will keep monitoring it. It's not a bad leak, mind you. It only burns and makes smoke once in a while. In the time we were searching for it, it didn't drip at all. Smoke will come from behind the engine and from the cowl area with the hood closed.

I am planning on making a clean write up with all the info put together pretty soon

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Know you are feeling out the new engine and probably taking it easy on it but have you tried out the new s/c yet? If so, how's it feel compared to non-s/c. What's the kick factor?

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<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> Re: Supercharging (this time, it's real) [Re: F14CRAZY]

#362164 - 02/22/06 06:22 PM Edit Reply Quote

Got the motor today. Gonna head back outside and commence work!

</div></div>

Well, 2 months,

basically two months to the day and what have we collectively learned from Philips' experience?

In that same Feb. 22 Posting I noticed there's a picture of the U/S of the Blower, have a look at the Gasket! Unbolting that blower off the manifold basically cost you, say 7 weeks. Was there any other reason to split the Blower off?

What else?

Balancer, still puzzled on that one.

I think with the S/C Power band you're going to want to fiddle with lock-up points, they're associated with, as I recall % of TPS. Padgett had modified my PROM way early on to lower the lock-up/ shift points before I ever got into the serious Mod-Mode. Sportier Drive, even stock. Padgett-PROM 7004 something like that.

Timeframes-The two stages of modifications I performed, I guess I can say were relatively well planned. The initial conversion to 5-Spd. with Series I NA engine was 8 days. Several months of preparation involved but from the day I pulled the old 3.8L til the day I was out for a test drive was 8 days. 2 Days later I got on the big road and drove her 2300 miles. Basically blew a couple of days sorting out Clutch Linkage geometry since parts I had supposedly gotten off a Getrag equipped Car proved not to be. Bought what was supposed to the Clutch Pedal from a 5-Spd Lumina and it weren't! Padgett came up with info from V-8 Archie to give me the precise Master Clutch Cylinder minimum travel.

Second installment to add the S/C was about 8 days and I had to pull the motor as well that time because I was getting the Getrag 5-Spd. rebuilt thru GM. Probably no longer available but then you had to deliver your core (GM Core value $3000 US)to the dealer. Pronto Shipping and about 5 to six days later you had a Reman. in your hands.

Be most interesting to see how you sum up the Project.

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I didn't think about it, but I do think I could have put the S/C and manifold on as one piece. Don't know if it would be difficult to bolt it down though. I'll take a look.

The balancer went on after we ground off the goofy little ridge.

Took a lot longer than I figured, but oh well. I'm back on the streets.

I'll discuss the shifting with Ryan

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"Only issue I noticed though is at like 55-60 mph, I can't get it to lockup"

Should. TPS just needs to be over 3.9% unless Ryan fiddled. If idle is .38 then TPS over .59 and 50 mph (47 ?) should lock. Of course coolant must be over 146F also.

Good to be in the fiddling time.

Padgett

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Ryan: want some ECM readings? BLM and stuff? Maybe this thing is best done when I come down to you eventually. Will let you know soon.

Changed oil/filter today. And did work on the Car-Puter. It's pretty much functional.

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Yes, I would like to know some INT and BLM counts, as well as O2 voltage at WOT (if you are opening the throttle that far). As far as the TCC is concerned, I didn't touch it yet so if changes need to be made there we can do that on the next chip.

-ryan

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