Century verses Camry

[55PackardGuy]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Fine with me... no car payment allows more money for the Buick.</div></div>

You said it all there, John. The best brand, year and model car is the 2006 Paidfor. Getting out from under a car payment makes any vehicle that runs, drives and is reasonably comfortable just about the nicest car you can own. Also, the huge premium paid for buying new has to be the biggest hurdle for car manufacturers to overcome. As soon as you drive it off the lot, there goes several thousand dollars you'll never get back--just for that new-car smell!

So, here's a question. If you were offered the use of a new car for as long as you wanted it, and had to pay only for gas, maintenance (nothing under warantee), insurance and license, what car would you choose? No trade-in or re-sale at end of use. Oh, and say this would be your ONLY car (or truck/SUV/whatever).

I think I would start shopping the mid-size 4wd (or awd) pickups. I need something that would tow a 1200 pound boat and trailer, carry four passengers, and have a 6' bed. It's hard to find something like that which also gets good gas mileage for the many short trips I make, so I would be looking for the best mileage possible. I think it would be hard to find something to replace my '96 Dakota, which does all of the above except the mileage. If I lived somewhere without so much snow and ice, I'd probably opt for 2wd with traction control (wet boat ramps!).

I'd be interested to see what people think would be the best compromise to meet the needs of economy, reliability, utility, comfort, and that certain undefinable appeal that makes you happy driving a vehicle--call it "style."

If my Dakota got 30 mpg I'd probably never sell it. But replacements are few and far between. Other than another Dakota, there's the Chevy Colorado or some form of Toyota or Nissan.

[Guest John Chapman]

Guy,

Toyota Tacoma 4x4 Double Cab TRD Sport Package... in red.

Cheers,

JMC

[Dave@Moon]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Guy,

Toyota Tacoma 4x4 Double Cab TRD Sport Package... in red.

Cheers,

JMC </div></div>

My 2003 Nissan would've also fit Guy's bill nicely. The 2005 redesign dropped the 6' bed, unfortunately (albeit with the adoption of a <span style="font-style: italic">vastly</span> better engine) and the Tacoma is now the only 4 door 6 footer on the market below full-size.

My Nissan was coaxed up to 21 mpg highway (18 city) with a K&N before I traded it in. It had a 3500 lb. tow rating (5000 lbs with an automatic), but it was really a dog with only 170 hp from a 3.3L V6.

[55PackardGuy]

LOL, how did you know my Dodge was red, John? Thanks to both for "naming names" in the pickup category. Now that my personal problem is as good as solved, except for my reluctance to buy "foreign"--however that translates into who owns Chrysler Corp. and where the Japanese models, and the Colorado for that matter, are built... how about weighing in on the vehicle of your choice out of all the new models? Remember, the car is "paid for" but you have to maintain it, insure it, put gas in it, and pay for all repairs out of pocket--plus residual value is not a factor. And it would be your only vehicle for, say, five years.

[Guest my3buicks]

Guy, I'm driving what I would drive even with all the criteria you listed. My Rendezvous CXL Plus gives me the luxury inside and the ride of a Luxuary car, the inside hauling capacity of a mini van, and the versatility and trailering capacity of a lightweight SUV - it does this all to boot with reasonable gas mileage average 20-21 - and what I consider handsome looks.

[Guest John Chapman]

Absolutely no question: Toyota Avalon Touring in silver.

Close second: Cadillac DTS - Performance Package in Titanium over Titanium leather.

JMC

[DizzyDale]

Dear Keith,First thing i wanna say is your 67 Buick Special has always been a 60s favorite of mine.Second thing is IMHO Rendevous should NEVER be mentioned in the same sentence with the words HANDSOME LOOKS.diz

[Dave@Moon]

The Toyota Tacoma is built in Fremont, CA and Tijuana, Mexico. Nearly all components are built in North America as well, the vast majority in the U.S.

The Nissan Frontier is made in plants in Smyrna and Decherd, TN. Again almost all components are U.S. sourced.

The Colorado/Canyon truck series is built in Shreveport, LA out of GM's usual (again mainly U.S.) suppliers' wears.

As far as a daily driver I can't imagine anyone (and I mean anyone) picking anything other than my Prius, assuming that a high-content mid-sze family car is sufficient to meet their needs. It has some drawbacks, particularly acceleration over 50 mph and an over-eager traction control system (probably needed due to the massive torque the car has relative to weight and horsepower). However as each day goes by and we know more about what buying and burning gasoline is doing to America and the world (to say nothing of our checking accounts), how anyone could be so self-absorbed as to equate that problem with something as trivial as a preference over style/color/brand loyalty/or personal politics is beyond me.

That the Prius is a very comfortable/quiet car with features most buy Park Avenues to get, <span style="font-style: italic">and</span> gets 45+ mpg reliably, <span style="font-style: italic">and</span> is just about the most reliable car on the road, <span style="font-style: italic">and</span> because of that holds resale value better than anything built, etc. etc. etc. ...is all just gravy found in the deal.

It might say Ford, BMW, or Saturn on the side, but eventually we'll <span style="font-style: italic">all</span> be drivng cars like the Prius (and trying to sell our past mistakes to some other sucker who can't add up his gas receipts!).

[Guest John Chapman]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">As far as a daily driver I can't imagine anyone (and I mean anyone) picking anything other than my Prius, assuming that a high-content mid-sze family car is sufficient to meet their needs.</div></div>

That's why Dave... The Prius doesn't meet everybody's needs. Therein comes the trade space for the 'only' car. If you need a car that will: Haul the parephenalia of the wife's 'home-based' business, the 86-year old mother-in-law and her support equipment, luggage for three adults, accomodate three frequent rider adults who are orthopedically compromised, negotiate frequent 300 mile round trips that include high speed freeway segments, a freeway climb over two 4100 MSL summits both ways and extensive low desert operation on farm roads, and provide a high level of passenger comfort, the Prius just falls short of the mark.

I think I just made a reasonable case for purchasing an Excursion.

Cheers,

JMC

[frazer]

People buy Toyotas, Nissans and Honda because of their reliability, longevity and resale value: not because of style, advertising, etc. An appliance maybe, but one that can be counted on. The dwindling market share of GM is testiment to the frustration of consumers dissatisfied with their former purchases. The above Japanese brands will last well above 200K without becoming a money pit. as as former empolyee of a GM dealership our heavy line ( major repair ) department was constantly backed up Northstar oil leaks. To repair, the entire engine had to be dissambled except pistons and crank at about 20 hours labor plus parts. this happens to just about every Northstar usually by about 60K.

This year Toyota is expected to sell more cars worldwide than GM for the first time. Imagine how well they would do if all their cars were as pretty.

Mark

[Guest Skyking]

We're not comparing Northstar, we're comparing Centurys......I can probably get 200,000 miles out of a bicycle, that doesn't mean I'll ride one.......Toyotas don't ride good at all and are very noisy. I'd never buy one........

[JohnD1956]

Stupid Cadillac's. But that does not justify buying a foreign car. People are just blindsided by advertising. There is no such thing as a problem free car today. Still, Foreign cars ride harshly, have uncomfortable seats, feel cheap and sound anemic. Untill, that is, you get to the more expensive models. Meanwhile if someone shops the big three they can get a car that matches the top foreign models in all these areas in a much lower ranked vehicle.

When I bought my 93 Regal my brother ( who is a mechanic who refused to work on anything without round headlights ) said: You'll hate that front wheel drive. It doesn't last. they ride like crap after 30 K. But I can report he was wrong. With 157K I'd take that Regal anywhere. What did wear out was the padding in the drivers seat. Even so the car still rides very nicely. And it is far more comfortable than any Honda or Toyota I have ever been in.

I say Go BUICK!!!

JD

[Guest Shaffer]

Tom, do you recall what year this Camry was? I am guessing a 2002 or newer model?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I used to travel for business about 30-35 weeks a year so was always driving rental cars. Typically I had a Chev Malibu, Impala, Buick Century or Lesabre, Ford Taurus and so on. On one trip I was greeted at the rental car place with a Camry. I thought this would give me a chance to see what everyone thought was so great about this car. I have never been so underwhelmed in my life. Hard, thin, uncomfortable seats, harsh and noisy ride. I've never seen such a non-descript instrument panel in my life. Long flat, looked like it could have been a 2 X 8 piece of lumber with cheap plastic trim. My first thought was that if Ford, GM or Chrysler had built this car, they would have been subjected to universal ridicule from the automotive media. One of my least favorite cars was the Malibu, which in my mind deserved much of the criticism it received, but the Camry was not any better. I used to rejoice when I found I was getting one of the Buick's. </div></div>

[Guest Shaffer]

Yeah John, I feel that the last really good Camry was in 1996. Actually, the 1992-96 are the best I think. Even the 83-86 and 87-91 Camrys were super cars. As mentioned, I had a 93' LE V6 (same as your 95) and I regret selling it. My aunt still has a 93' Camry LE 4dr, but hers is a 4-cylinder. It sees a lot of abuse daily, but goes strong. Around 240K on it now I think.

Going back to reliability, someone posted this on a Mercedes site I am a member of.

http://www.mercedesshop.com/shopforum/attachment.php?attachmentid=32018&d=1141763334

Toyota ranked at the top. Buick was the most reliable American car and is definitely, one of the most reliable cars on the road.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Shaffer,

Your observations about the Camry content are right on the money. Following Camry generation three, TC-3 (1992-1996), the TC-4 and subsequent TC-5 genereations were 'decontented' to keep the price point down and to make room in the Toyota line for the Avalon (intro in mid-1995).

What was done to decontent the Camry didn't affect reliability, but did take away a number of refinements present in the TC-3. Notable were the triple door seals replaced with single seals, interior material quality was reduced, there were reductions in body isolation/sound control material, seat quality was reduced, and there were other noticable corners cut in production costs.

We have a 1995 LEV6 with 190K on it and it still goes strong. Replaced the struts all around this year with KYBs and new tires and firmed up the ride to like new. This has been a wonderfully serivicable car and my wife loves it. Fine with me... no car payment allows more money for the Buick.

Cheers,

JMC </div></div>

[Dave@Moon]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> Toyota ranked at the top. Buick was the most reliable American car and is definitely, one of the most reliable cars on the road. </div></div>

Unfortunately that graphic is of five-year old models, none of which are still in production and (as I said in a previous post on the Rendezvous thread) all of which were exceptionally reliable. On the next page from that graphic in the <span style="font-style: italic">CR</span> issue is a ranking of "Average Predicted Reliability" based on the models currently in production and their relative track records. Owing in part to the very poor performance of the Terraza, Buick's relative ranking is projected to decline.

On that graphic Buick ranked 20th out of 36 brands, behind Jeep, Dodge, Pontiac, Ford, Chrysler, and (best American, 8th overall) Mercury.

This is probably the first time that GM faired obviously worse than the previous year in this survey in about 2 decades. Something is clearly wrong.

[OldCarPosters]

Frazer ... I thought you might enjoy this Cadillac poster (Attached). I have sold many of these posters to Caddy dealers for display in their showrooms. Kind of a "Buy American" reminder for auto buyers trying to choose between Cadillac and Lexus. You might enjoy the early Buick posters, too.

http://www.vivipix.com/