How can the Misc chat forum be good for AACA

[KRK Sr.]

"There exists a Misc. Chat forum. It is hidden from general forum users. Only members with 400+ posts can see the contents of Misc Chat. This Misc Chat forum is open to chat about any topic - not just automobiles." quote from Peter G.

Question; If the un-paid moderators of the forums have to read every post in all forums, is it fair to them to have to spend hours reading this non-automotive "chatter"? If you need four hundred post to get in this forum, is a "good old boys" forum in the best interest of the mission of AACA? If this is the only way we get these forum members to post on this site, do we need them? Are any of them members of AACA? If less than 2% of the registered posters post in the Misc Forum and complain as soon as any thing is deleted, are they holding the AACA hostage with their own need for this forum? Let them find a forum that wants and needs this trash.

The AACA Board Meeting is in a few weeks. My vote is to eliminate the Misc. Chat forum. Let's keep this an automotive forum. Let the board know we don't need it. My vote is good riddance! Karl

[1937hd45]

The only good thing that came out of that basement hideout was the money for the Library Roof and the Paint for the Headquarters Lobby. I left there months ago Pure Left Wing BS Rant Room, lots of venom, lots of unhappy people. Looks like the Forum is making some changes for the better with the new section up top, and there are lots of new first time posters. If you're taking a poll I'd vote to close the basement. If you are new to the Forum you didn't miss a thing.

[nearchoclatetown]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> My vote is good riddance! Karl </div></div>Amen Karl!

[Guest]

Actually,

In my real garage, normal people talk every thing under the sun. Last weekend is was retirement cuts, and health insurance. It's all about friendship.

I like chat chattin with the left coast, and don't mind getting a diffrent opinion. We are all members, and we can ask, talk, preach, or laugh at any dumb idea, like now.

I don't think the two cents of internet fees is going to break the AACA budget.

So, if you want to stand in the corner by yourself go ahead, we'll all be in the pool in the basement.

[DizzyDale]

Dear Karl,When "The Good Ole Boys" get together in Philly next month you can bet the talk will be all over the board,cars and jacks included.This Auto club is comprised of people from all over with many DIVERSE ideas and opinions who like to share with others.I vote for the BASEMENT keepin on keepin on.diz

[Guest Skyking]

Isn't anyone ever happy here??????? I post some pictures of a new Challenger, maybe in the works for Chrysler, and there is still someone to complain because it's not OLD!!!!! Maybe more of us should exit this forum and forget about joining the AACA.

[novaman]

The "basement" just raised according to my figures $2,000 for the remodeling at headquarters. Some others may have made contributions but the fundraiser started in the "basement".

[nearchoclatetown]

Skyking, I have absolutely no problem with your Challenger thread. I'm not sure why you responded to me about it. What I do have a problem with is all the threads in R&R that have nothing to say about anything. I've never watched Seinfeld either. Their both a waste of space to me.

[DizzyDale]

Dear Novaman,GREAT point.....If not for the CRUMB BUMS in the basement THAT pool Tommy 1927 mentioned in his post COULD be the BASEMENT if the roof wasn't re-done.The jack collection would also be rusting.diz

[Shop Rat]

Diz,

I agree, I vote that the basement stays. Not all of what is down there is bad. Much of it is good, entertaining, thought provoking and is like sitting around in someone's garage or around a campfire and just chatting with friends.

The problem is some folks don't want to follow the rules about what can be posted and how far they can go. Many people have no problem at all doing that and will never have a post deleted.

The AACA and it's sponsors provide this to us at no extra charge. It shouldn't be that hard to follow the rules.

[Guest Skyking]

Nearchoclatetown, I'm sorry that I clicked on your name instead of the poster, but lately everyone seems to be on edge. If I see something that isn't of interest to me, I just pass it by, mostly all the political stuff. There's nothing anyone here can ever say that will change the direction this countrys going in, although they might think they are. With that being said, I do enjoy visiting the basement to see different opinions of people.

[Guest Mark G]

I for one will never post that many posts , And the basement chat is not that important but the information I gleen from this site is. I'm a member of AACA in good standing for many years, I sell at Hershey and some other car shows, But the need for a chat that you have to have a large amount of post to be able to read is kind of silly, the folks that need a chat to help restore a car are the ones that should be allowed to chat at any time. I have done a few web sites where I offer a free non download chat I also have MSN and ICQ and a few others so if someone is looking for Model T or TT or British Bus help I can chat with them no matter where they are, there is no set limit to time spent posting in the forum before they can chat and ask questions.

Sometimes these conversations get lead astray and end up a social club but when a car question is asked they get thier answers.

As for raising money for the Museum roof , that is a good thing but why not have a fund raiser just for that? And leave the chats for those that need help not hidden in the "basement" where ever that is.

Like I said before I like Chats I like sharing information with others, and it should be open to anyone that wants to chat, not just those "know it all" folks that are there now.

[R W Burgess]

Mark, The 400 posts requirement in Misc Chat can actually be overridden with an e-mail to "WebMeister" Peter G, with his approval of course. The idea is to keep newcomers who only want to start trouble from posting improper material in Misc. Chat. The moderators keep an eye on all facets of the forum and lately things have been very quiet. <img src="http://forums.aaca.org/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" /> Maybe Santa Claus is still on everyone's mind. <img src="http://forums.aaca.org/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

As far as the dismantling of Misc Chat, I don't expect that to happen anytime soon. As least we now know where all the "trash" talkers are. <img src="http://forums.aaca.org/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

It's easier on all of us.

Wayne

[Dave@Moon]

There was a time when the forum in general was populated by a different crew of people. The internet was smaller then, and a forum could be more open because it would attract posts from a smaller pool of people who (largely by virtue of enterprising to peruse this then new "net" in the first place) tended to be more independent of thought and disposition. As a result there was also a great deal more tolerance of other's independence as well. At that time general discussions were to be found in every sub-forum here.

Later the net and this site got bigger. Occasional unfortunate individuals of questionable wisdom and sobriety made the registering of usernames mandatory. Soon afterward the site got so big as to require a separate room "in the basement" for general discussions.

Still many of the original regulars maintained a presence that made it worthwhile to participate "in the basement". Much real information of the day was still being exchanged and people would respect the viewpoint of others.

Now every monkey's uncle can be found here. It became necessary to institute the 400 post limit to eliminate those who were only interested in provoking people in <span style="font-style: italic">Rants 'n' Raves</span> (the original title of <span style="font-style: italic">Misc Chat</span>). All of the threads there disappear after 90 days as well, although I think tossing out the provocateurs eliminated the reason for that.

While that was successful, it took too long to accomplish and the basement became an arena for provocation instead of discussion. Some of us tried to keep the flame alive, but people who see a <span style="font-style: italic">"Pure Left Wing BS Rant Room</span>" or a "<span style="font-style: italic">Pure Right Wing BS Rant Room</span>" instead of digesting the material that was found there allowed it to fester. The reasonable/tolerant/thoughtful "conservatives" and "Liberals" are gone, all having left in disgust thus making their fears a self-fulfilling prophesy.

It's now a tag team game of naysaying, with no one bothering to really read and analyse anyone's posts but their own.

I'm sure I've posted more there than anyone over the years. I really don't care what you do with it.

[Dave@Moon]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> I'm sure I've posted more there than anyone over the years. </div></div>

It occurs to me I should explain why this is true. We are a community, and participation at any level within a community should be rewarding. Discussing the issues of the day with my friends at local car club meetings has always been rewarding, and often is a better activity than that day's club business.

<span style="font-style: italic">Misc Chat</span> used to be very rewarding.

[D Binger]

Why don't the powers to be make everyone use their real name and require what town and state they are from? I am sure that a lot of that stuff might slow down.

Dan

[R W Burgess]

Dan, I don't know the answer to that. That question has come up before. At the very least I'd like to see an e-mail requirement as many people miss the private message we have to send out every so often.

I think for the most part, Misc Chat has become benign. I hope it stays that way.

Wayne

[Rick Hoover]

Dan, Don't you think that would be too easy of a solution in helping keep this forum more civil and car related? Afterall, that was proposed more than 5 years ago on here when all the Anonymous posters were ruining the AACA General section and all we got were some noses turned up back then. No, there must be a more indirect way of doing it. Let's just complain about it for another 5 years, get another half a dozen moderators to help control things and then see what happens.

Personally, I don't care if the Misc chat comes or goes. As Bob said, the only good thing we seen was the money raised.

To tell you the truth, for the last couple years, I question what good this entire forum is doing for the AACA.

Rick

[Matt Harwood]

I was one of the more vocal basement dwellers until recently, when I just got too fed up with everyone playing for their "team" and not fostering intelligent discussion any more. It always turned into a "with us or against us" fight where everybody loses. So I bailed and don't plan to go back for a while, if ever.

That said, I don't think <span style="font-weight: bold">Misc. Chat</span> should be dissolved. It isn't hurting anyone, we're all adults who can handle ourselves, and recent changes have made a few steps towards keeping the untamed element under control. There's no harm in keeping it there--if you don't like it, don't read it. Demanding it be eliminated sounds a lot like the same folks who want to control what adults see on TV or hear on the radio. Nobody's forcing anybody to read or participate in it, and the 400 post rule ensures that no "newcomers" stumble in and get the "wrong" idea about the AACA. If you don't like it, stay out. Easy, yes? No need to force your beliefs on everyone else.

And yes, that<span style="font-style: italic"> is</span> my real name up in the user information box. It's been that way from the beginning.

[Peter Gariepy]

Dan Binger

Rick Hoover,

"...make everyone use their real name and require what town and state they are from..."

If i could implement such a feature I'd do it. Show me a similar site that does exactly that and I'll see if I can duplicate it.

Peter

[Guest my3buicks]

that is a tough one Peter, I would love to see the name of all posters. People become MUCH more brave and rude when they can hide without being known. It takes much more brass to give your opinion as yourself than an unknown.

[1937hd45]

I was looking for 1937 Harley Davidson 45 cubic inch parts when I joined. I think others picked a name that relates to their field of interest, just like a car show, you look around for the vehicles you like and owners with like interests.

[Guest Mark G]

Hi again, am I to understand what your calling a "chat" is just another secret board? or forum like this one? or is it a LIVE chat where folks talk to each other on line? that's what a Chat is to me. check out this chat site

http://pub20.bravenet.com/chat/show.php/1656280923 this takes a few seconds to load .

What we do is set a time , weekly usually and meet in the chat room for a few hours and chat about bus problems , or in the Model T club ,T Problems etc.

Anyone can use this any time they want this is on the British Bus Club's web site http://www.britishbusclub.org

[novaman]

I personally would not be for someone's actual name, city, and state being used. As you can tell by looking to your left, where I'm from. The problem I see is if someone decided to monitor this site and we had say our post about the dfer's lunch in Philly. If I used my actual name there, I'm the only one of "my name" in town. Check the calendar, I'd be gone most likley from thursday thru sunday afternoon. Great opperunity for someone with sticky fingers.

I introduce myself with my username and actual name, when I get to meet other DFers so they know who novaman is.

[novaman]

Oh, plus it would be hard to do since i or anyone else can type anything I or they want to, into a space on a form.

The required email address would be a good start. I particapate in on forum where you sign up, the moderator then emails you, you reply then your in the forum and can post. At least your email address was verified that it is right.

[Guest]

try Google-ing "novaman", all your AACA posts come up.

Your real name will soon come up with credit card numbers.

[ted sweet]

seems if you dont like it, don't read the Misc forum.

[ted sweet]

how come i cant find this forum?

[R W Burgess]

Ted, the Misc Chat is the last forum in the group. You have to be logged in the see it. I checked your sign in name and you should be able to reqad the "chat" section.

Wayne

[jaxops]

I think the Misc Chat is kind of confusing, and takes away from the AACA Board. I had always used the AACA General Forum for just that, general chit-chat about the hobby. I also realize that I quip in with some useless funnies from time to time, but that is the fun of it.

[Guest Hal Davis (MODEL A HAL)]

Mark G,

I just noticed no one ever answered your question. The Misc Chat section (formerly Rants and Raves) is just another bulletin board just like this one. It is not live chat. Unless you thrive on silly jokes and hardcore political discussion, you have not missed much.

[Twitch]

The place of which you speak at times had light hearted fun and games but invariably threads were taken over by people with political agendas and perverted the subjects into bully pulpits to extoll the dogma of their jackbooted leaders. Some people posted stuff that was nothing but bait to argue and then name calling invariably began.

In the real world people do talk about all subjects but they don't degenerate into name calling if others don't aggree to the rhetoric of their favorite political party. They might get a spanner across the teeth.

But on the internet there is a weird anonymity that emboldens some people to be vicious simply because they can. There are SO many sites whose prime theme is political arguements I can't see why people are compelled to be nasty here on the premier antique auto website.

You simply can't visit the area and participate in a benign topic like car jokes without the distinct probability that someone is going to begin morphing it into a tirade about the election of over a year ago or beligerent dialogue about global warming and who done it.

There just got to be too many weiners jumping around the grill for my taste. and they weren't Oscar Mayer so I rarely go there any more.

[novaman]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> I had always used the AACA General Forum for just that, general chit-chat about the hobby. I also realize that I quip in with some useless funnies from time to time, but that is the fun of it. </div></div>

Back several years ago, before the "rant & Rave" section (Misc. Chat) section started. a large group of us did just that and some of the "topics" were not exactly auto related other than kidding among automotive buddy, just like if you were at a show. For an example, we picked on Howard a lot about his Krispy Kreme doughnuts. We started getting a lot of "newbies" on the forum and they started fussing that they didn't like reading threads that were about cars. Personally, if the thread was named KK or Krisy Kreme, it should have been obviuos it wasn't about cars. The rant & rave section became the place for this kind of thread.

There are a good number of the "older/orginal" DFers that don't really particapate in the DF anymore. They might be watching but in giving any input. Which personally we all lose out on in the long run as some of these members are very knowgeable.

In a way I don't blame them. When I joined the DF it was really fun to get on here and talk about cars and do some kidding just like most of us do at a show with our buddies. The "newbies" got us partically band from the general fourm, making us go to the R&R section. Then it seems like every six months to a year, someone tries doing away with the R&R/misc chat. If you beat your dog long enough, he'll shy away. The older members probably feel like that dog by now.

(Pardon the spelling, I'm at work and can't override the pop-up blocker to use spellcheck.)

[Dave@Moon]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> The place of which you speak at times had light hearted fun and games but invariably threads were taken over by people with political agendas and perverted the subjects into bully pulpits to extoll the dogma of their <span style="font-weight: bold">jackbooted leaders</span>. Some people posted stuff that was nothing but bait to argue and then <span style="font-weight: bold">name calling</span> invariably began.</div></div>

I wonder why.

<span style="font-style: italic">Misc Chat</span> used to be very rewarding.

[KRK Sr.]

I see there has been 32 posts on this subject since Saturday. Some are for keeping the Forum, some want it to leave. These posts all had to be read by our moderators, some with one line, some with paragraphs of comment. Now move to the "basement" and think about the political trash that these same volunteers have had to endure reading over the past years, and tell me that's good for AACA. I gave up on the basement last fall. I would go look from time to time, then come away with the feeling the AACA was being misused. It is a shame to think that donations of monies to the AACA comes with a prize, the rants and raves forum.

Keep the Misc. Forum if you must, but don't look for any replys down there from me. Karl

[novaman]

Karl, I gave up on the basement just before Hershey last fall when things got unfortunately out of hand. After finding out what was done (the 400 posts needed) I decided to give it a look again and have found the tones have clammed greatly. Some of the posts, you can still tell where someone stands politically but there is the name-calling and insults.

Right now there are several threads with jokes. Most are clean; a couple are boarder line but nothing you most likely wouldn't hear while hanging out with buddies over a beer or two. Another thread has been helping someone out that has a relative needing advise, on how to get rid of the bad taste that chemo has left the person with. Another is on Chinese cars. Another is about that Corvette being found after all these years. The <span style="font-weight: bold">big political debate of the week is currently named:</span> [color:\\"red\\"] "I want the general forum removed!" Seems it has been deemed "It's too darn helpful, and everyone gets along!" (And no, I'm not the one that started it.)

[Shop Rat]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> Another thread has been helping someone out that has a relative needing advise, on how to get rid of the bad taste that chemo has left the person with. </div></div>

For those that don't, or can't yet, go to the basement it is my mom that novaman is talking about. My brother has asked me to compile information for him and his wife, while they are in Fla. with my parents for the winter, to help my mom gain her weight back and be able to eat a better diet that tastes good to her.

People have been so kind to put posts, send PMs and e-mails to me to tell what worked for them or a friend or relative. Some of these folks have only recently lost someone to cancer and so I know my asking is not what they want to think about. But they have anyway. My whole family is grateful for the help.

[DizzyDale]

Dear Karl,Donating monies to the AACA does not entitle anyone to anything. It DOES allow cellar dwellars who are VERY PASSIONATE about EVERYTHING from old cars to the condition of the librarys roof to sleep better knowing they did the right thing. diz

[stock_steve]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> The place of which you speak at times had light hearted fun and games but invariably threads were taken over by people with political agendas and perverted the subjects into bully pulpits to extoll the dogma of their <span style="font-weight: bold">jackbooted leaders</span>. Some people posted stuff that was nothing but bait to argue and then <span style="font-weight: bold">name calling</span> invariably began.</div></div>

I wonder why.

<span style="font-style: italic">Misc Chat</span> used to be very rewarding. </div></div>

Perceptive use of the <span style="font-weight: bold">bold</span> command there, IMHO.

[Dave@Moon]

Thanks Steve. Unfortunately you get a lot of practice pointing things out like that in the basement.

-----

It occurs to me that to this point no one has directly adressed Kirk's question (<span style="font-style: italic">"How can the Misc chat forum be good for AACA?"</span>) directly in an objective manner on this thread as yet. I tried to do that the last time this discussion became serious, and I'll try to reiterate that argument here.

<span style="font-style: italic">Misc Chat</span> serves the same function as the after-meeting bull session you can find at any club outing, local or national. People enjoy discussing diverse subjects, and are <span style="font-weight: bold">very</span> capable of doing so in a dignified and respectful manner. Participating in this activity builds and adds to the bond a community like ours has.

Without the added strength of the bonds built over the years in <span style="font-style: italic">Rants 'n' Raves/Misc. Chat</span>, the response to the library drive by Howard would've been <span style="font-style: italic">far less</span> that it was. That is <span style="font-style: italic">not</span> to say that any sins are forgiven by the fundraising activity, but that the fundraising activity is evidence of a deeper committment to the AACA built by people who've learned to enjoy each others company (even if it is only on a "virtual" level).

However, that argument fell on deaf ears last time due to the offensive nature of those who know not dignity or respect. People who'd have most to gain from this level of interaction here stayed away in droves. Those who remained lived under a dark cloud of suspicion that made them vulnerable to <span style="font-style: italic">serious</span> (often intentional) misinterpretation and false offense, and eventually that was enough to drive the remaining few off. There's little down there now but people who see each other in terms of <span style="font-style: italic">their</span> "jackbooted" comrades and <span style="font-style: italic">their enemies'</span> "jackbooted" comrades.

Five years ago those people were being ignored. Now they're the stars.

So how can the <span style="font-style: italic">Misc Chat</span> forum be good for AACA? [color:\\"red\\"]ONLY IF THE AACA SHOWS UP!