PLEASE HELP!! Brake issues are a commin'!

[TheBlackMoon]

Well guys, 173K miles and she's finally doing it to me...

SERIOUS BRAKE ISSUES!

Here's the situation... she's been giving intermittent (more nuisance than anything else) Yellow ABS warning for about a year now (garaged for a year), ever since I put her back on the street. I REALLY wish I hadn't laid her up. She was fine before that!

Anyway, No codes tripped, wasn't the relays, sensors were cleaned but nothing changed, and to top it all off, the ABS worked just fine every single time.

Enter 2mnths ago. I'm driving down the street, I hit the brake to turn, RED BRAKE LIGHT comes on with ABS light, brake goes rock hard, I take left turn at 40mph (thank GOD for the Reatta's inherent stability), reflexively drop into neutral and mash the brake with all my might (which is considerable, believe me), which only causes a slow, gradual decrease in speed. My mind goes into "Track" mode, I kick off the ignition, do an emergency restart, and BOOM, as I ease on the brakes, the yellow ABS light comes on, but brakes work as normal! I pull over, pop hood, do a visual inspection, notice fluid levels a bit low (about an inch below max), refill with fluid, and drive up to Mechanic. End of story, right?

Wrong. Mech found absolutely nothing, not even a code set! WTF!!! Okay, so I drive her off, fully aware that this can happen again, but nothing; she brakes as normal, with the ABS light flashing almost every time the brakes pressed.

Enter 2wks ago. Start her up one morning, and since I'm a bit late to work, pull off after about a minute or so of warming up (it was about 45degs). Got to light and some fool slams brake at a green, so I slam brake and meet a rock hard pedal, Red BRAKE light and ABS light on, but when I put some real pressure on pedal, immediately resumes normal braking and stops in time. Get to same corner as before, no probs. Get to light 1/2 a block down, lightly apply brake and ROCK HARD pedal, Red Brake and Yellow ABS light on. I missed turn at light 'cause I have to go straight, drop into neutral and do an emergency restart again before normal braking will resume.

Now, whenever car's cold, same situation! I MUST warm her up before driving or it's HARD Brake Hell! No amount of pressure will engage brake fully. To give you an idea, I push over 400lbs on my left leg using a freeweight machine. I'm lucky I didn't bend the brake pedal's armature.

I've called Mech, but this wh*#& almost took me out twice, so it's her and I now! I'm ready to dig in and find the prob myself, even if I've got to rip the entire system out and rebuild it from scratch! This is really my fault, as I've neglected her this year, running behind everyone else and dealing with OPP instead of dedicating the time and energy I should have been dedicating to her. I haven't checked codes as yet, but my FSM, for whatever reason, is missing the entire "Brakes" section. I know it's online, but I had to resubscribe to Reatta.net (been out of it for awhile) to gain access and awaiting passwd and username.

[color:\\"blue\\"] So here are my questions...

Does this sound like the antics of the Accumulator, the EBCM, a faulting relay, or something else?

Would someone mind posting the way to get to the '90's brake codes and what they mean?

What type (CS-130 or CS-144) alternator does she have? I'm at work and she decided she wants to act a fool while it's raining again. Oooh the joy!

And lastly, because it's got it's own issues, does anyone have a good price (especially if you're local to MD/DC) for a Climate control computer. I'm not even getting into it's problems and the Crazy-Ray's/Junk Yards around here are trying to rake $25 for a part they won't guarantee long enough for you to plug it in and drive 2miles.

Also, just because it's time I get off of my tuoch and deal with her (perfect timing, right... It's getting cold again!), I cracked the daggone support for the driver's side crossmember cover (leather surround right behind driver's door), so I need the plastic support in Sandlewood/tan if anybody's parting out.

Thanks guys. You can post here or email me at [color:\\"red\\"]consultants_1@hotmail.com .

[bobwhite]

The brakes are complicated and require more than average care. I change my brake fluid and flush my brake system every year. I do the brake test every year. If you have never changed the accumulator, it probably needs one. It is easy to change. Ever since I started doing this maintenence, my brake problems have become rare. The brake information is at Brakes

[Barney Eaton]

Lots of things could be happening. Start by unplugging and replugging every connection on the brake system (on the firewall unit) ideally, spray them with contact cleaner when you pull them.

Check the relay on the firewall...possibly switch the two to see if the problem goes with the relay.

When you pull the connectors, look for moisture at the pressure switch connection. J. Finn has noted that this is a good indicator of a faulty pressure switch...brake fluid has leaked inside and probably screwing-up the electronics.

Do the brake test and see how much the fluid drops in the resevoir between pressurized and un-pressurized.

Just remember, you still have brakes....you do not have boost and it was not designed to operate in that mode. The car will stop but your foot cannot put enough pressure on the pedal to stop quickly.

good luck.

[padgett]

First understand that you are dealing with two seperate systems - the boost system which is purely hydromechanical and the ABS system which is computer controlled. Boost system problems (which this sounds like) will not set any codes.

Second understand that any boost system failure will turn the red light on AND ALSO turn off the ABS (Yellow light on). The only was to get just the red light on is through the (parallel electrically) parking brake switch.

What you are describing is probably a combination of two things:

1) a bad accumulator

2) "something" (usually the relay but can be the wiring, pressure switch, or motor) is not running the pump when the pressure gets low.

However you are supposed to have at least a couple of powered stops even after the red light first come on which leads me to think you need a new accumulator also.

ps be carefull about filling - you have to depressurize the system and empty the accumulator first else it is likely to overflow during the night.

BTW there are two forms of "rock hard pedal". The more common one is as you describe, pushing with both feet does some slowing but not much. In the other and very rare case, the pedal pushes back at you.

pps when you lose boost, you also lose the rear brakes so pumping the e-brake pedal will help as well so two feet on the regular brake and on on the e-Brake.

[Jim]

Derrick,

From my experience you are going to need to replace the whole system on the firewall. The computer and wheels sensors are only for the ABS function. If you are driving and the red light is out that tells me the relay, pressure switch and accumulator are good but you have corrosion in the master cylinder and valve body. Another reason the above items I believe are good is because in normal stopping you have the normal power assist but under an emergency stop the internals of the hydraulic system are failing.

This is why it is so important for anyone with an '88-90 Reatta to change the brake fluid ever couple of years. Brake fluid naturally attracts moisture and holds it causing corrosion.

I have all the parts you need and can be reached at jfinn@cpinternet.com

[TheBlackMoon]

Thanks Barney, Bob,

I'm sorry, should've mentioned that I've already removed and cleaned all connections to the brake assembly (at the firewall) to no avail. Prob with my initial attempt (spare of the moment thing) at pumping brake with engine off was that brakes were again, rock hard and could not be compressed with engine off. Inintially, I didn't notice any drop in the fluid level, which basically told me I was doing it wrong and I needed to check the site again. Now it's cold and raining, so that's prob what I deserve!

Relays on the firewall? I didn't even think to look at them! Crap!

Someone else mentioned a pressure switch, but when I took it to a (supposed) brake specialist, he took one look at the system, said a curse word or two (took it to mean he must be familiar with the Teves system) and spend another 15 minutes scratching his head after digging around 'cause he couldn't find the pressure switch! Which one is it?

Bob, I used to be "on top" of these things, flushing every year and checking lines, sensors, gears and such for leaks, but when I let her sit for a year, I kept making excuses as to why I didn't have time to nitpick and tune "every single aspect" of her after getting her back on the road. I guess you can say that I took on a "If it ain't broke, don't fix it" type attitude for a bit. My STUPIDITY! But don't worry, I'm RUSHING the re-introduction of the '85 Corrolla to the road as a primary so I don't get myself KILLED, and I'm giving 6x the braking distance I normally give. Let'em cut in front of me... It's the right lane for us... for now! I'll prob wound up garaging and fixing EVERYTHING MECHANICALLY wrong on the Reatta before the Winter's out (really only a few things). She's been way too good a car to give up on her now.

[TheBlackMoon]

Thanks Padgett, Jim.

Jim, indeed the lights ARE off during normal driving and the yelloe light comes on (normally) for only a second during normal braking. In a "Panic" brake, normally the red light comes on for inly a second or two, and it is only during that time the pedal is rock hard.

I'll call / email you for a price on a replacement system. Even if it turns out to be something less drastic, depending on the "final analysis", I might feel better just replacing the unit as a whole in the end.

Guys, what type of Alternator is in the Reatta? A CS-130 or a CS-144? I'm rebuilding that *$*$% before the night's out!

[Guest Brolliar]

Derrick, have you solved you Reatta brake problem and if solved what changes did you make to the system? I ask here rather than by email because I think other Reatta owners would be interested.

[manikmekanik]

Check your parking brake closely. There is a recall related to the switch. When the parking brake switch is activated, the red lamp comes on, and the ABS system is disabled. Pull up on the parking brake pedal, wiggle it to see if the red light comes on when pedal is retracted. If so, this could be PART of your problem, I've seen others who've tied=up the pedal to prevent erroneous activation of the switch. The hard pedal should NOT be caused by this, so other problems are looming, but there IS a recall related to the parking brake switch, so be sure to identify whether yours has this problem along the way.

[TheBlackMoon]

God only knows I thought I posted the end result of my Brake problem here, but I can't find it anywhere... Well, basically... New Accumulator ball (from Germany, nonetheless). Cost about $200 if I remember correctly, with installation, but it fixed the problem. Now I go through brake pads almost as fast as gas, LOL!! (Uh, that's a joke guys...).