A very serious matter!

[Guest wally888]

How can we solve this problem?<BR> There are about 15,000, 88,89, and 90 model Reattas on the road. My guess is only about 2,000 of these owners visit this forum and the Brakes Section of <A HREF="http://66.8.158.202/~reatta/index.html" TARGET=_blank>http://66.8.158.202/~reatta/index.html</A> (all the answers are not there, yet!)<BR> Perhaps a thousand of these cars need a new accumulator, many may need other components, have intermittent wheel lock, have 10+ year old brake fluid.........<BR> Buick and GM have offered no assistance.<BR> Suggestions???<BR>BTW-Would appreciate prices of any brake components you have purchased on the net or at a discount-email to me Please.

[Guest]

I HAVE TWO '88s THE RED ONE HAS NEVER HAD A BRAKE PROBLEM AND I BLED THE SYSTEM 2 YEARS AGO. THE SILVER STARTED TO HAVE THE ABS LITE COME ON INTERMITTANTLY SINCE THE FRONT BRAKES PADS HAVE BEEN REPLACED. I THINK THAT THE SENSORS HAVE COLLECTED METAL SHAVINGS FROM THE PADS.

[Guest]

Wally,<BR>I provided you with extensive information for symptoms and their associated part - you might want to think about adding some of that to the brakes page.<BR>... just a thought.<BR>~Brenda<P>------------------<BR> <A HREF="http://members.aol.com/gohighr/reatta.html" TARGET=_blank>http://members.aol.com/gohighr/reatta.html</A>

[Guest allbuick]

My wife and I drive an 89 with 256k miles, a 90 convertible with 156k and a 90 coupe with 134k. Only the 89 has had an ABS problem over the past few years. When the light flashed, the system was checked and repaired. Your suggestion that perhaps every Reatta on the road is a rolling disaster waiting to creep up on an unsuspecting driver concerns me. In talking to Buick owners that have had ABS problems with their cars, most all have admitted that the warning light might have flashed a few times but they chose not to address it. While the Teves ABS system on the late 80's GM cars isn't nearly as dependable as the rest of the car, the warning system of a potential problem seems to do its job. It is usually the operators tendancy to put off having it checked that constitutes the danger. <BR> I suppose a class action lawsuit to recall all of the Reattas and allow them to be traded in on a new GM car so all of the Reattas could be scrapped would be a sure way to fix this problem and get these cars off of the road.<BR> I'll pass thanks. I enjoy my Reattas and will continue to do so and understand that the brakes are sensitive and require special service

[Guest wally888]

Perhaps, either before or after you read this thread, you should read the post I made at, "Total brake failure symptom and repairs" or below, where I have pasted.<BR> I am certain, any one other than a race car driver or highly trained driver, will panic when encountering a loss of hydraulic<BR>assistance in a Reatta.<BR>--------------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>As we have begun to focus on the hard pedal<BR>and locking wheel problems, the problems seem to broaden.<BR>During a conversation w/ gearhead, discussing an intermittent wheel lock( one front wheel, during normal braking, seems to grab)he suggested that instead of one wheel grabbing, actually the other wheel brake, may<BR>not be functioning.( in some way fluid under pressure, intended for the non-working brake, was being diverted back to the reservoir!) If this be the case, instead of having a grabbing(locked) wheel, we have a non-working wheel? Several have mentioned this problem. What do you think?<BR>To review what we think we know about Hard Pedal and Total Brake Failure.<BR>1 Hard Pedal is normal when there is no hydraulic pressure, provided by the pump, stored in volume by the accumulator.<BR>2 When you leave the key off, pump your brake pedal until pressure is depleted, the pedal gets hard.(key to on, both lights on, till pressure builds)<BR>3 When the pumps fails and you use up the stored accumulator fluid, under pressure, the pedal gets hard.(both lights on)<BR>4 When, during an emergency, you apply the brakes fully, engage Anti-lock, the pedal rises and gets hard.( no lights on unless other problems, bad accumulator, weak or intermittent pump, bad pressure sensor, bad relay)<BR>But, as in the case of Dan's recent wreck,<BR>none of the above seems to have happened!<BR>He experienced Hard Pedal, no lights and , if you have experienced it, you know, no brakes.<BR>After the wreck his pump ran normally, seemed to charge the accumulator, shut off and there were no lights!<BR>What happened?<BR>We know the system has a Main Valve(appears to be integral to the hydraulic unit) and this valve, operated, I think, only by the EBCM and is normally closed.<BR>When Anti-lock is engaged( emergency stopping), the EBCM sends current to the Main Valve causing it to open. An open Main Valve allows fluid, under pressure, to be routed to the back side of the Master Cylinder( the side that under normal braking,sends pressurized fluid to the brakes).This back pressure, (fluid under pressure)neutralizes, maybe overcomes, pressure from the system and your foot, causes the pedal to rise and become hard.<BR>I would like to blame Dan's wreck on the Main Valve but if it in some way failed( I suspect it is held closed by a spring) or, in other words, Opened, where did it get the current to open it?( perhaps a bad internal seal leaking intermittently, thats a stretch!)<BR>Perhaps if we had all the fluid diagrams in the Training Manual, we could resolve exactly what happens in every case.Or the means and time, etc., to gather components from failures and diagnose them.<BR>This is where Buick has let us down, abandoned us! Ain't there a Samual Adams out there someplace?<BR>

[Guest]

Just my $.02: The sensors are not 100% reliable. My car was maintained exclusively at Buick dealers from the time I got it (1992 for an off-lease 1990 coupe). I had no clue that my sensors were not working since the TEST button lit up every idiot light on the dash, just like it always did. But the lack of one crucial sensor meant that my pump ran non-stop until it died, and a cascade effect, blah blah blah, leading to an estimated $3000 repair bill. That's when I ditched the car.<P>Basically, I had no warning and no brakes. That is a failure mode that I have never experienced in any vehicle. I suppose it could happen in my old jalopy if someone cut the brake lines, but then I'd probably notice a puddle on the ground, and a soft pedal or one that just whent to the floor.<P>I don't think GM's engineers thought of how a single point failure (in a $5 sensor) could lead to such a catastrophe. But it is a complex system and one that they hadn't been making or using for very long at the time. Heck, the space shuttle blew up because of an O-ring.<P>Well, whatever. I no longer own my car. I feel like GM and Teves did not do the right thing. I also don't want anyone to experience the problems I did. I would be happy and satisfied if GM and/or Teves would come up with a recommended maintenance procedure covering these systems. Just tell us how frequently to check what components in what manner. I don't really think a recall is ever going to happen, but if that's the only way to get them to do right by Reatta owners, then I'm ready to push for that until the head of Federal DOT tells me to shut up.<P>I hope this makes sense to others. I do not want to see these cars off the road. I also don't necessarily want to embarass GM and Teves. I just want owners to know what to do when to avoid losing their brakes.<P>If someone else has the answers, I haven't seen it. But if they do, they could do a wonderful service to ALL Reatta owners by just giving us the necessary advice that would enable everyone who drives one of these cars to do so with confidence that their brakes will be there when needed.<P>