1960 Electra 225 Convertible R&R

[Smartin]

More paint..

Block is done:

Intake:

Valley Pan:

Core Support top bar:

[Guest 1964 225 Roadster]

For what it's worth to you, I am loving this string, and following it closely. I'm sure lots of other guys are, too. Keep it coming!

[Smartin]

I am having a total blast doing this. I've been wanting to do this to my car, but I drive it too much to take into this much detail.

There's a 62 Electra 225 vert coming in the garage next.

[Smartin]

Took the heads, manifolds, and distributor to the machinist today for some attention. I also ordered a fitting for the pressure power steering hose and ordered the valley pan gasket.

I got the valve covers painted this evening. Those took over 3 hours to strip and prep, so nothing else got done tonight. I wanted these to be perfect, since those are what is noticed first. Same goes with the wheel wells and all the highly visible black parts. No chipped paint or cracking under the fresh paint - just clean metal. To me, that's what makes the difference between a good job and a great job.

[Smartin]

Machinist found a burnt intake valve and a bad valve guide. Replacing 9 valves and doing a valve job.

Exhaust manifolds are there for some R&R and new stud installation.

They were able to press sthe pin out of the distributor so I can change the vac advance can, also.

Moving right along!!

[55PackardGuy]

I suppose that intake valve was sticking a bit due to binding in the valve guide, eh? Might maybe have been the cause of the "burning." Did you notice a miss or anything before you began the rebuild? Just kind of interested in your diagnosis, doctor.

[Smartin]

It was tough to tell, really.

I did notice a BIG hesitation when cold just off idle. It simmered down after the car warmed up, but it still had a hesitation. I found the heat riser valve stuck closed, and rhe vacuum advance does not work.

If I had seen this before I drove the car 50 miles home, I wouldn't think the car could even run. The initial timing was set at 20* advanced.

Now, for the hook:

When they pulled the heads apart, someone had been doing some "work" on the tips of the valves. Grind marks are on some of the valves as if someone was trying to get them to line up properly. I have a feeling, that the burnt intake valve was held open slightly when the rockers were installed. Either that, or the bad guide was holding the valve at an improper angle causing one side of it to leak and burn.

Choose a scenario

[55PackardGuy]

Chosen scenario: some really bad wrenchin' by a careless "mechanic" wannabe!

It's great you are getting that poor nailhead "straightened out." Such a phenomenally good engine and someone did such an unfortunate job of spoiling it. I think it's one of the most satisfying things about working on an old car: "righting what has been wronged." Sort of the "Lone Ranger" spirit that seems to live on in conscientious motorheads--such as true-blue Buick nuts out there like you!

[Smartin]

Progress!

I finally jumped in and got the actual surrounding of the engine painted yesterday. (more like around midnight last night)

All the black is done, and the master cylinder, power booster, brake lines, and transmission cooling lines are finished. The washer jug is back where it is supposed to be. The horns and a few other non-invasive items will be bolted back on tonight. These pictures don't do the car justice, it looks really nice. I'm very pleased with the progress so far.

[Guest 70 Electra]

Adam,

You're really sweetening-up the ol' gal. My 60 could benefit from this attention to detail! You mentioned getting everything down to bare metal, but how did you do the inner wheel houses? Didn't look like you removed them.

Also curious as to your "black of choice". The gloss level looks just right!

Keep us posted.....

[Smartin]

It took me about 6 hours to clean and sand the wheel houses to prep them for paint. I used a DA for the big spots, a wire wheel on a drill for the smaller areas, and then sanded by hand the rest of it.

I just used the chassis black from CARS. It's good stuff...and it took me about 3 cans to do this.

[Guest imported_MrEarl]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">It took me about 6 hours to clean and sand the wheel houses to prep them for paint </div></div>

So Adam, I gotta ask, Is this your day job as well as your night job?

[Smartin]

One of these days, it will be!

I was up until midnight the other night doing the wheelhouses. Now I get to wait on the heads & manifolds. The distributor is ready to be installed, too.

[Smartin]

Some progress while I wait for heads:

Distributor is repaired with a new vac advance and a cleaning. Valley pan is installed, along with the breather tube.

I think I'm hosed for work until I get these heads and exh manifold back from the machine shop.

[Smartin]

Got a few little things done this weekend. Most of the weekend was spent wiring a buddy's new house for phone, cable, and internet. We dropped almost 4000 feet of wire in that house

Heater core and firewall box are installed. I also tackled the mess of relays and voltage regulator on the drivers side.

I talked to the machine shop of Friday, and they said that the place they order their valves from had sent them one wrong valve...and it set them back almost a week. And now I'm set back a week....great! Still nothing to do!!

[Smartin]

I got the heads and exh manifolds back from the shop Tuesday. They installed all new exhaust valves and one new intake valve, did a valve job, knurled the guides, and installed two new guides. They removed the old studs from the exhaust manifolds and cleaned them up for me to lay some nice cast iron grey paint on them. I just haven't had a chance to get into the garage to even paint anything yet! I'm getting anxious....

80 hours into the project so far. I'm glad I had to remove the heads...who knows how much power I was losing with all the exhaust valves and an intake valve problem! Although, I made the decision to remove the heads when I discovered that the heat riser valve might have been stuck shut on the passenger side exhaust manifold. The only way for me to repair/remove it was to remove the manifold itself. I thought for sure I was going to break a bolt or two. Little did I know, I was going to break the whole manifold apart trying to get it off!

That's all for now..

[Smartin]

Hit the proverbial "wall:"

Need to know what way the thermostat goes in!

I don't want to install it upside down...

[Smartin]

Got a couple parts back on this weekend

Still stumped on the thermostat position question, though..

[Guest sixpack2639]

Adam, thermostats always go in with the spring side twords the block.

THIS SIDE UP.

THIS SIDE DOWN.

[Smartin]

Thanks for the clarification. I thought it was supposed to be like that, but I wanted to be sure.

[Philippe Racicot]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Got a couple parts back on this weekend

Still stumped on the thermostat position question, though.. </div></div>

Nice work Adam,

This is something I should do to all my cars, they all look bad under their hoods. The only detailing I have done so far was applying wrong color spray paint over the rust, dirt, oil, hoses and wiring on my 65 Wildcat!

Can somebody tell me where to get a kit to rebuild the original fuel pump for my 65 401? I bought one at my local Buick dealership but it's sealed. The old one was still pumping fuel but it was also pumping oil under the hood (which I haven't cleaned yet...)!

About the thermostat, the one I have in my 65 doesn't look like the other thermostats I have seen. I'll try to explain how it looks: The top part doesn't have a "pin" extending above it and the thermostat door doesn't "slide" on it. If I remember well, it opens in a similar way to a 60's car vent window: the door has hinges in it's center section and when it opens one side of the door goes up and the other side goes down... I'm wondering if it's the original. I recently have done a tune up on it and the points and the condenser were old Delco points with a separate Delco condenser, they probably dated from the seventies. The plug wiring is also made by Delco and has rubber parts that entirely covers the spark plug holes in the heads. Is wiring like this still available?

[Smartin]

Phil,

The same type of thermostat you are describing was in this car...in fact, I still have it in a box in the garage.

..doing some putzing before I try to turn the key for the first time..

I have to change the oil and charge the battery before I let it rip.

I have some cleaning up to do after I get it all together, but it's lookin' pretty good now.

For some reason, no one has 7/64 vacuum line.

[Guest imported_MrEarl]

Lookin good Adam!!

[Smartin]

SHE RUNS!!!!

I smoked myself out of the garage when all the paint started cooking, but it was worth it

Minor fuel leak at the filter, but that was my fault for not tightening the nut

It sounds really strong. I will change the oil one more time, and set the carb and timing. She should be good to go for a spin here soon. Too bad it's raining

[Guest my3buicks]

THREE CHEERS!!!!!!

[Guest imported_Thriller]

[Guest 1964 225 Roadster]

Ain't nuthin finer, than when you light one off for the first time. YessirreeBob!

[Smartin]

Looks to be leak-tight. I topped off all the fluids after doing another oil and filter change. I just LOVE killing a case of oil in one night....on the same car.

Next on the list: Finish the air cleaner, find out why the speedometer does not work, paint the underside of the trunk lid, polish stainless, tranny lube, and TEST DRIVE.

[Guest my3buicks]

What's after that list? A Senior in Rochester perhaps?

[Smartin]

I hope so!!

It received a senior award in 1994 when it was first done with a "cosmetic" restoration. Basically, all the stuff you could see was repainted. I'm going to see if I can attach the senior badge to the grille, but it may prove to be difficult with the shape of the grille itself. I'll have to fab a bracket.

But yes, Rochester is its first BCA stop

[Guest sixpack2639]

Congratulations Adam, she's looking great!

[Smartin]

I took it for a drive this afternoon.

When I first started it, the car would not want to stay running. I looked at the choke and it was not engaging, so I flipped the choke plate shut and let it warm up that way. It stayed running with the plate shut. When it was warmed up, I flipped the plate back open. Talk about manual choke! That's obviously a problem I need to look into, along with the stumble off idle when I touch the gas. Since EVERYTHING else is new and replaced, I am assuming it is the carb/accel pump since that is the only part I did not inspect before I reinstalled it. Looks like I need to get it rebuilt. I may just have someone do it...not sure yet. That's not real high on the priority list right now though.

[55PackardGuy]

Adam,

You might want to go after that choke linkage yourself. I think it's unlikely, unless something is missing, that anything is actually in need of replacement or rebuilding. The linkage might just be out of alignment, sticking, or need adjustment. The accelerator pump is of course a different story. I found it fairly easy to tinker with the choke and fast idle when I had the '65 Electra. Nothing computer-controlled here!

This reminds me of a dreaded flaw in the Buick accelerator linkage of this era. The problem definitely applied in '65, and a '60 nailhead may have the same ailment. If the motor mount on the driver's side breaks or gets loose, the engine will torque over under load and pull the throttle wide open. It's a horrible feeling when this happens when you're driving, which is the usual scenario. Sucks the pedal right down under your foot, and usually the only thing you can do to stop the car is turn off the key!

This can happen even with BRAND NEW motor mounts, as it did to me. A new motor mount was sheared right off within a few hundred miles of an engine swap. Typically, these cars were supposed to be fitted with a chain or cable "hold down" on the driver's side front of the engine. I think this was a safety re-call item and I believe it could be considered "correct." Even if a judge were to quibble, I think you could make a good case for it--maybe even have a copy of the recall with you if you can get one. Either way, it's better to get the car and yourself to the show in one piece.

The first warning that the engine is on a runaway is usually that you hear the fan hitting the shroud. An ugly sound and not good for the fan or the shroud!

[Smartin]

Guy, I found the problem with the choke today, but I am still having problems with the hesitation at first throttle.

I just picked up a rebuild kit and will be tearing into it tomorrow.

[Smartin]

I give up on this hesitation/bog problem. Time to let the pros dig into the carb this time.

I pulled the accel pump out of it, and it obviously needed to be changed. But "apparently", the carb was rebuilt a week before Hank bought the car (this Spring). Possibly worn throttle shaft bushings is my guess now. I ran the car this evening after the pump change, and NO difference. And there is a real big bog when the secondaries open up. At first, I thought I was dealing with aa qjet with this bog problem

Anyway, I'm throwin' in the towel with this carb. And now the generator is making noise.

[Philippe Racicot]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

This reminds me of a dreaded flaw in the Buick accelerator linkage of this era. The problem definitely applied in '65, and a '60 nailhead may have the same ailment. If the motor mount on the driver's side breaks or gets loose, the engine will torque over under load and pull the throttle wide open. It's a horrible feeling when this happens when you're driving, which is the usual scenario. Sucks the pedal right down under your foot, and usually the only thing you can do to stop the car is turn off the key!

</div></div>

There was a recall for the motor mount problem, to avoid this situation in case of a motor mount failure, they installed a cable around the suspension shaft which bolted to the engine head. The air cleaner itself, if not installed properly, could make the accelerator stick.

On my 65, the choke also had problems which were caused by exhaust going in the choke cover (because of the bad tube in the exhaust manifold). This made carbon buildup that blocked the piston inside the choke cover. The carburator is a Carter AFB but I think that Rochesters from the same period had a similar choke system.

[55PackardGuy]

Sorry about the detour in your thread here Adam, but I think this is pretty worthwhile information to get out to anyone driving nailhead-powered Buicks. Dont' forget to restrain your Wildcat 445!

Philippe,

Yes, the recall I mentioned specified a fix similar to the one shown in your picture. An interesting but not very elegant "solution." GM was apparently pretty concerned about this, as I got a recall notice even after my '65 was 10 years old!

I wanted to emphasize how easy it is to lose the front motor mount on the driver's side, since I experienced it with a brand new mount. Apparently, the stock mounts just aren't strong enought to take the upward force produced by the torque of these motors. Rather than the accelerator actually "sticking," the movement of the engine pulls the throttle open by flexing the shaft, and creates a "feedback loop" as the more the engine races, the wider the throttle goes, the more the engine races, etc. until it reaches WOT--very quickly! This is probably one reason that the accelerator shaft setups disappeared in later models and cables came into use.

When the accelerator shaft binds against the underside of of an improperly installed air cleaner it will cause the sticking problem you pointed out. That needs to be watched during r&r, and also when considering an aftermarket air cleaner.

[Guest 1964 225 Roadster]

The "cable loop around the motor mount" solution was applied to a very wide range of 'problem cars.'

My Mom's new 1969 Impala had a 350 4BBL, and was recalled at about 2 years old for the same installation. Point being - very different animal from a nailhead. I think it was a simple loop, which passed through an existing hole in the top of the mount and around the frame, though, no attachment to the head.

I believe the problem was finally engineered out of existence in the erly '70s by the simple method of molding steel "hooks" (opposing "J" shaped) inside the motor mount that would grab each other, even if there was no rubber present at all. So simple, so obvious, what took so long you have to wonder.

[Guest imported_Thriller]

Does anyone know what year range this applied to Buicks? I don't recall seeing any such beast on my '66...of course, since it is apart right now, I wouldn't be able to know for sure anyway.

Thanks.

[Smartin]

Carburetor is back from the rebuilder. I didn't know carbs had a "clutch." Where is the clutch on the 4bbl AFB?

Also worthy of note, the 60 has developed QUITE a power steering leak. I think the seal gave way at the steering shaft. Looks like I get to pull the box off! yaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay.