Guest Posted October 3, 2000 Share Posted October 3, 2000 Am I the only one with a Reatta and a talent for snapping cam shafts???<P>------------------<BR> <A HREF="http://members.aol.com/gohighr/reatta.html" TARGET=_blank>http://members.aol.com/gohighr/reatta.html</A> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted October 4, 2000 Share Posted October 4, 2000 "snap", as in broken in pieces? How did that happen? As far as I know, this is a steel billet roller cam and should be pretty durable.<P>------------------<BR>Hal, btk@vbe.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheBlackMoon Posted October 4, 2000 Share Posted October 4, 2000 Brenda, please tell me you're joking...<P>How did you manage that? I'm told these are far and wide the most durable engines GM ever produced; even more so than the Infamous Chevy 350ci. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted October 5, 2000 Share Posted October 5, 2000 Brenda sure is pretty........but I don't think I'd let her drive my car!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheBlackMoon Posted October 5, 2000 Share Posted October 5, 2000 Dan, <BR>But you've gotta love a Beautiful woman who looks just as good in the passenger seat as under the hood! And just as useful in both!! <BR>Brenda does have a good ear for mechanics. That's a bit of a rarity in blondes (Just kidding Brenda LOL) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted October 5, 2000 Share Posted October 5, 2000 I was only joking(not about the pretty part). I was only commenting that Brenda seems to have some bad luck with her Reatta's. After looking at the crash photos, I'm just glad she is still with us. And yes.....I'm sure I'd let her drive my car.....I have never been able to say no to a beautiful woman.......that's always been one of my biggest problems.......Dan<P>------------------<BR> <A HREF="http://www.jersey.net/~tdc/Reatta1.jpg" TARGET=_blank>http://www.jersey.net/~tdc/Reatta1.jpg</A> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reatta Man Posted October 5, 2000 Share Posted October 5, 2000 Brenda,<P>Your camshaft problem may have been tied to another problem found in nearly all cars with a plastic or nylon-coated timing chain. I'll explain how they are related. <P>After many years of owning Buicks and many other GM cars, I've come to believe in replacing the timing chain and gears at about 100,000 miles as a routine maintenance item. This is because many of these chains are covered with a nylon-based plastic. As the car ages, and heat takes its' toll on the nylon develops hairline cracks, the chain develops slack, or becomes loose. If the nylon breaks apart, it can clog the oil filter or oil pump pick up screen, and if the pickup screen is damaged, can even make its way to the oil pump. <P>The nylon teeth were used to make the engines slightly quieter. GM seemed to think that a quieter engine was a better engine. Unfortunately, you don't know if you have the nylon teeth-covered timing gear until it breaks or you have the engine open for some other reason. <P>Now for the good part: how they are related. If the chain becomes loose, it could snap, like a whip, and place a sudden load on the camshaft. It will also let the engine get out of time by as much as 10-20 degrees. If the piston and valves are the non-clearance type (sometimes also referred to as a collision engine) the valve could actually be open when the piston comes to the top, or TDC (Top Dead Center). If they collide, they could then transfer that force to the connected components. THAT could be what is snapping your cam. <P>I strongly recommend the timing chain and gears be replaced with an all-steel QUALITY set made by a major manufacturer. This should be done anytime the front of the engine is open, such as when replacing that harmonic balancer on the crankshaft (another part prone to failure, I've learned the hard way).<P>Good luck and stay away from those guard rails!<P>Joe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted October 5, 2000 Share Posted October 5, 2000 I agree with Joe, this is a strong possibility. I had a similar problem (but the cam lived) on a mid 70's 350 Chevy. The nylon teeth broke apart, and crumbled, plugging up everything, including the #8 crank throw oil gallery. This quickly caused a rod knock due to lack of oil.<P>Obviously, it could have just as easily wiped the cam instead.<P>I am also a firm believer in replacing the timing set @ 100k. I've seen numerous cases of the 3.0/3.3/3.8L Buick breaking the chain and smashing the valvetrain. They are well known for it.<P>Also, Buick V6's seem to be extremely finicky on crankshaft clearances. Have seen many with rod knocks.<P>Speaking of rods, I also have 3 parts engines here (all 3.8's) that have actually BROKEN a rod. (I didn't do it, 2 came from other people, the third is in a car I bought)<P>The 3rd one, I actually drove home (gently, about 20 minutes) rapping away. I was shocked to find out it was actually broken right apart when I opened it!<P>Keep in mind I've seen quite a few of these over the years (used to work in an automotive machine shop) so I tend to know about the failures of them......<P>On the whole, though, a fantastic engine with lots of potential!!<P>I'll shut up now.<P>Derek<P><P>------------------<BR>1968 "Canadian" Pontiac Beaumont<BR>1988 Buick LeSabre T-Type<BR> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted October 5, 2000 Share Posted October 5, 2000 HI Boyz!<P>First I must thank you for the compliments 8-) (I am assuming you have looked at my photos then - though that blonde comment does make me wonder a bit)<P>Second, I must say that although it is true that I do drive my cars hard, I do take care of them. That probably comes from my days working as a mechanic & body techie.<P>Third down to business .....<BR>Being as this is not the 1st Reatta cam-shaft I have snapped, I did some asking after the first time & again this time.<P>The first time (at 108K miles), there was a clean break (yes this was in the red reatta that crashed due brake problems), so that I was able to drive the car at least 20 miles on 4 cylinders instead of 6. When this happened, I was slowing down from 90mph to on the highway.<P>This time (at 176K miles), there seems to be multiple breaks & a blown head gasket to top it off. This time I was accelerating to get on the highway & probably wasn't doing more than ~40mph when it broke and was only able to coast ~9 miles down the highway.<P>Either way, neither time was I doing anything unusual or beyond the limits of the car.<P>As for timing gears & chain. These have NOT been factors in either instance. For both vehicles, I had Buick dealerships verify (via the VIN number) whether the car had the plastic coated gears or not (the first after the snap, the second long before [visual verification on this one while the engine was apart having the crank sensor replaced ~130K miles]). NEITHER car had the plastic coated gears. Earlier model Reattas may have had the plastic coated gears, but it would appear that the 1990s did not.<P>BTW - if you're all curious - this putst he tally of major mechanical failures in vehicles I've been driving up to:<P>4 engines<BR>1 dropped transmission<BR>possibly 1 blown transmission<BR>1 snapped drive axle<BR>& 1 major brake system mal-function<P>.... not bad for a gal, huh? <chuckle><P>~B<BR> <A HREF="http://members.aol.com/uniqueangle/U-A-P.html" TARGET=_blank>http://members.aol.com/uniqueangle/U-A-P.html</A> <P>------------------<BR> <A HREF="http://members.aol.com/gohighr/reatta.html" TARGET=_blank>http://members.aol.com/gohighr/reatta.html</A> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted October 5, 2000 Share Posted October 5, 2000 I did look at the photo's.....I am in Love!!!I was aware you were not a blonde. As I posted earlier....I would let you drive the Reatta......but sorry.....not the bike. Glad you are anxious to get a bike......may i suggest a nice BMW....Dan<P>------------------<BR> <A HREF="http://www.jersey.net/~tdc/Reatta1.jpg" TARGET=_blank>http://www.jersey.net/~tdc/Reatta1.jpg</A> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
harry yarnell Posted October 5, 2000 Share Posted October 5, 2000 The 3.8 is a stout little engine, however I don't think they have the dreaded nylon cam gear, all I've seen are cast iron, They're also a tensioner for the chain in the timing case. Granted chains stretch, but the low rpm's these guys turn, the chains and gears should last alot longer than they used to.<BR>I too have seen the horror of what those loose nylon teeth can do to other engines, noteably the Buick 3.0 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted October 6, 2000 Share Posted October 6, 2000 The 3800's should all have steel cam drives, the plastic was done away with when the engine was updated, probably due to the addition of the balance shaft, requiring a thinner sprocket. Also, the oiling system is better on the 3800. The oil pump is driven from the crankshaft. Not only does it turn twice as fast, the path from the sump to the oil pump is shorter plus the load from the oil pump is taken by the crank and not the cam. I haven't found one yet that had less than about 45-50 psi of oil pressure at hot idle.<P>------------------<BR>Hal, btk@vbe.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reatta Man Posted October 6, 2000 Share Posted October 6, 2000 Brenda, et al, <P>Nice pics! I enjoyed the scenery. Reminds me of some of the fun photography I've managed to squeeze in during my years as a combat camera officer in the Air Force. Also liked the shot of you in B&W. There is a talent for shooting in silvertone that is rare today. But that is another story....<P>Back to your Reatta -- I'm somewhat stumped as to what could be causing the catastrophic failures you've experienced. This is the kind of mysteries that I would imagine engineers dream of trying to solve.<P>Unless you were experiencing some odd set of circumstances that would require a visual inspection of the car right after the failure, I can't imagine what would cause a cam to break. Wear out, yes, especially if an oil pump was weak, clogged with sludge or failed.....but break? I've not even heard of that happening very often in racing engines set up to run 8,000 RPM for hours at a time. <P>The only think I could think of is some sort of major blunt force, either from an earlier accident causing a hairline crack to develop, or broken motor mounts that allowed road impacts from potholes to pass vibrations directly to the engine. <P>As odd as that seems, I had a water pump and exhaust manifold failure definitely tied to a rear end collision. This was due to the vibration of the impact being passed through the frame and driveline of the car like a giant tuning fork. My insurance company REALLY didn't want to pay for either repair, but when the shop owner proved it to be accident-related to them, they admitted it and coughed up the money to pay for the repair. <P>Unless GM or their supplier is now having some of their cams made by 12 year olds in a Bangladesh sweat shop for 15 cents an hour wages, I can't imagine a run of bad camshafts causing this. <P>What does everyone else think? Any 'war stories' that could explain her cam failures? Any pocket-protector-wearing Reatta-loving engineer types out there that could explain this?<P>Joe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted October 6, 2000 Share Posted October 6, 2000 Hi Joe -<BR>Nice thought about accident but ... it had been 3 years since the white reatta was hit & that wasn't all that hard. TO the best of my knowledge, the red one (first broken cam-shaft) was never hit.<BR>Motor mounts good & oil pumps working perfectly in both ...<BR>~B<P>------------------<BR> <A HREF="http://members.aol.com/gohighr/reatta.html" TARGET=_blank>http://members.aol.com/gohighr/reatta.html</A> <p>[This message has been edited by Reatta2go (edited 10-06-2000).] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted October 6, 2000 Share Posted October 6, 2000 I am sure that I know what caused your numerous engine failures, and that is you are the unluckiest Reatta fan on the face of the earth. <P>------------------<BR>Long live the internal combustion engine! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted October 7, 2000 Share Posted October 7, 2000 I would have to think that something else was wrong, internally, with the engine. Before I spent a small fortune in camshafts I thing I would pull the engine and take it to a competent machine shop for inspection. In a "normal" engine this simply should not happen. A prayer to the camshaft Gods couldn't hurt either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted October 9, 2000 Share Posted October 9, 2000 Why spend extra $$$ taking it to an engine shop? I'm just putting another engine into it, then it's back on the road again 8-) Maybe this one'll last a bit longer before it breaks too <grin>.<BR>~Brenda<P>------------------<BR> <A HREF="http://members.aol.com/gohighr/reatta.html" TARGET=_blank>http://members.aol.com/gohighr/reatta.html</A> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gearhead Posted October 9, 2000 Share Posted October 9, 2000 Brenda, you have said in previous posts that you like to go fast. It would seem to me that if you re-engine your Reatta, you might want to get some more git-up-n-go. <P>There have been other posts about putting a supercharged 3.8 from a Pontiac Bonneville in it. Don't know why a Riviera engine wouldn't work as well. I would really like to see some more details of how this works.<P>I would think that the mechanical side of this job would be pretty straightforward. Not easy, but a doable job. I really wonder how to do the electronics and how to tie that into the CRT. It might be worth your while to look into that and see if that is worth doing.<P>Then, when you are good at that -- try a Cadillac Northstar in your next job. I would bet that package would really haul the mail.<P>Whatcha think?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted October 9, 2000 Share Posted October 9, 2000 <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Reatta2go:<BR><B>Why spend extra $$$ taking it to an engine shop? I'm just putting another engine into it, then it's back on the road again 8-) Maybe this one'll last a bit longer before it breaks too <grin>.<BR>~Brenda<P></B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Gee, I don't know. Maybe so it won't break again. Sorry I even tried.<P> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted October 10, 2000 Share Posted October 10, 2000 Believe it or not, I did look into putting in the supercharged engine, but decided against it (same as with the 5-speed). I believe there are some differences in how the exhaust would hook up, not to mention all the computer system hassles. Needless to say, I don't do the engine swap myslef, but have the dealership do it (engine must be pulled from underneath & is a 13.5 hour job for someone that has the right equipment & knowhow).<P>As for the 'going fast' issue ... I've had cruise set at 108 on the Reatta and it did just fine ... won't say where I was at the time (and I don't do so on a regular basis).<P>------------------<BR> <A HREF="http://members.aol.com/gohighr/reatta.html" TARGET=_blank>http://members.aol.com/gohighr/reatta.html</A> <p>[This message has been edited by Reatta2go (edited 10-10-2000).] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted October 11, 2000 Share Posted October 11, 2000 Just curious, but what engine has to be pulled from below? I changed mine last month and it came out the top, without even removing the hood. It did take the better part of a weekend but I was doing this alone and was slower than having a helper.<P>------------------<BR>Hal, btk@vbe.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reatta Man Posted October 11, 2000 Share Posted October 11, 2000 Brenda,<P>I was somewhat surprised to hear you are going to your Buick dealer for the engine swap. I strongly recommend you check out a good shop that uses ASAE-certified mechanics. <P>Does the dealer offer some sort of great warranty on their work that ends up saving you money later, such as a lifetime warranty on repairs? Unless you have a particular reason for using them, you can save a lot of money using an independent shop. <P>Most dealers will work their charges based upon $50-75 per hour, while some independents will do the same work for much less. <P>If you are not sure of how to find a good one, check with your insurance company to see who they use for mechanical (non-body shop) repairs after an accident. <P>For an engine swap, you could save from $500-1100. That would be a nice nest egg to pay for those little court invitations that state troopers like to issue to those of us with a heavy right foot, or for your next engine repair. <P>Joe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted October 11, 2000 Share Posted October 11, 2000 Hi Hal -<BR>To correctly pull the engine on the Reatta, it should come out the bottom of the car. Else, you're risking damaging that fancy braking system & other stuff. Book time shows 13.5 hours.<P>Hi Joe -<BR>As for why I go to the dearler - I've dealt with enough hack-shops over the years on cars that were much easier to repair than the Reatta is (for owrk I was not able to do myself for one reason or another). Yes, they're cheaper, but not by much (esp if soemthing goes wrong). At least at by going with the dealer I'm covering my little be-hind. If they screw up, they're more able to cover their damages than a smaller shop. Also, they've got quite a reputation to uphold, so they push for a better job done (first time 'round). Difference between Phoenix dealers & here - Phx rates were $75/hour & here it's a mere $55/hour - but still worth it either way to have things done right the first time with no unnecessary mis-haps.<P>------------------<BR> <A HREF="http://members.aol.com/gohighr/reatta.html" TARGET=_blank>http://members.aol.com/gohighr/reatta.html</A> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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