Hot Rods, Street Rods and Modified

[sflregion]

I am the president of the South Florida Region AACA. An issue has come up within our Board and I want to get an outside opinion. The issue is whether or not we should allow Hot Rods or Street Rods, Modified Cars in general, on our show field. The first issue I believe we need to establish is to define these types of cars or more importantly what kind of cars make up our club. What do you in the rest of the AACA world use as guidlines as to who can and can't show on your show field. One of our shows annually is a Judged event using the National Guidelines (we don't have the problem here) the balance of our shows (this is where we get into trouble, who should be turned away)are judged strickly on appearance and presentation in several classes. Those classes are Best of Show, Best Pre-War (WWII), Best Post War, Best British (always a strong showing), Best Ford, GM, Mopar, Best Corvette, Best Mustang (both strong showings)and then usually 20 - 25 finalist. I have a strong opinion on what we should do, but what to here what others are thinking and doing. Thanks for the imput

Ira Shapiro

President AACA

[Dave@Moon]

I find it hard to believe that there are street rods roaming the boulevards of south Florida with no place to go. Pretty much any day or night of the week in anything like a major metropolitan area there are rod shows held almost hourly.

The question isn't <span style="font-style: italic">"Should we let them in?"</span>. (Please excuse me for interjecting myself like it sounds I belong in the decision seat.) The real question is <span style="font-style: italic">"Why would they want to?"</span>. That's not a facetious question, it's a real one with real answers. Find the answers to it, and see if they're compatible with the long term health of your local.

I'm betting they're not.

[R W Burgess]

Ira, I saw this post and knew...Uh Oh!, here we go again. This forum has been over this subject many times. BUT, no! that's not right. What we have talked about in the past is allowing street rods and hot rods on their National AACA field. What you are talking about is AACA Regional Meets which has its own guidelines to go by...of your choosing. The AACA does not tell you how to run your meets whether judged or not. My own region, the Northern Neck Region, went through this judging issue last year. After a lot of hurt feelings and some disappearing members, we are still judging our show. We do allow Street Rods/Hot Rods on our own field and we do judge them on mostly appearance only.

In my region, in my mind, I like judging, somewhat on the order of the AACA. Here is why. In my mind "now", I'd like to think everyone would want to judge or have a very special car JUDGED on the National level. Now, how would a local person know anything about the National Standards if we didn't try to educate them locally first? Myself and others caused a big uproar over this issue, but I'm STRONGLY in favor of this viewpoint. Let's just say, that's my way of giving back to the AACA.

Your region has a very special opportunity to have it both ways. And, that's important because, in my mind again, I believe the Rodders have a better association with young people and they are the people we are trying to reach. I don't think our results are very good yet, not that we don't have a lot of members working very hard to change that. I wish I had an answer for that problem, the youth of the AACA.

You have an interesting question Ira. Let's see what everyone else says about their experiences.

Wayne Burgess-Editor, Northern Neck Region, Virginia

[sflregion]

During the winter months in South Florida you can't turn around without finding a car show of some type. Why they wan tto come to our show is a good question. A possible answer is that our shows are free, each show has suffient sponsor base to cost us nothing and to support our club. Are they good for the long ternm health of the club, my knee jerk reaction is no. Do they hurt us, in the long term I would say no. In the short term it effects the "OLD TIMERS" the most.

[sflregion]

Sorry if I opened up an old wound, but as they say "Time wounds old heals". I'm new to the forum so I didn't know it's been covered. To respond to you, I'm a strong believer that by virtue of being a santioned region of the AACA then we must live by the National Rules. Each member or our region joined the Antique Automobile Club of America not the Street Rod Association. I additionally believe very strongly that we need to keep these old cars on the road and educate the public, not turn them into modern cars with antique bodies. You know a wolf in sheeps clothing.

[sflregion]

Our shows aren't held as fund raisers, we has suffient sponsers to run our club. My goal as President is to expose the community, both the old and the young, to collectable cars and to show how manufactures and designers both domestic and foreign have chosen to address the problem, getting from point A to point B. My 1968 MGB/GT is a very different take on the problem then a '68 Vette or Mustang or Lincolin or whatever.

[Shop Rat]

Our region is a small one by lots of standards. We finally opened up our shows several years ago to street rods and modified cars with separate trophies for those and others for the antiques. Then as time went on we went to cruise-ins because we did not have to purchase trophies at all. And the folks still came and had a good time. It was fund-raiser for our club.

My advice would be to make sure that your club is in charge of the rules, music that is played and what goes on. Back when we were having our biggest shows the largest street/hot rod group wanted to have a show next to ours. No problem, or so we thought. That ran over us. Blasted music so loud our folks could not hear our music or announcements. People riding on the hoods of cars and driving visiting show race cars through the crowds with no mufflers. If their people came to our entrance we politely told them how to find the show they were looking for. We found out that they were taking the antique car owners money without telling them they were in the wrong area and they had no classes for them. It was a disaster. People came to us and said they would not be back if it was held anywhere near that group. We finally changed locations because even though we were there first, there were more of them and it was held on our capital building grounds so we could not bar them from being there.

[bschemesc/rambler]

I know I'm new but I have been around cars all my life so I feel I have to say something here.

I have felt for years that if the Hot Rods are let it that it will only HELP THE HOBBY.

Lets say there is a class for (1930 to 1935 Fords) at a show.then there should be a class for (1930 to 1935 Hot Rod Fords). These two classes should be kept together on the show field but in different Rows!!! (Wait, don't go crazy on me) The good thing about this is that young & older people that have interest in the same kind of cars can be kept together. They could look at each others stuff and learn from one another. How cool would it be if a young Hot Rod guy knew of a decent 1934 setting somewhere and a older member might know of one that is in bad shape but would be great for the Hot Rodder!!! (The decent one could be saved and the bad one could be turned into a cool HotRod).Every one could start respecting what the other guy is doing and share some info as we all need parts (owning a rare AMC I know all about that). I feel this is the best way to keep them from cutting up good cars and getting them to understand how great the original cars are. You could do this with all the classes and it would keep them from being all in one place!!!! MAKE SURE THEY GIVE YOU THEIR LICENSE PLATE NUMBER WHEN THEY REGISTER !!! WILL KEEP THEM HONEST. I don't think any Hot Rodder coming to a AACA meet has raising Hell on his mind but I guess I could be wrong. I HATE THAT MUSIC ALSO, have to tell them that playing it loud is not welcome under any circumstance !!!!

I have more of a problem with clone cars not having their own class at local car shows (none aaca shows). It is no good when a clone car wins over a true rare original muscle car no matter what it's condition is !!!!

These are just my thoughts that make sense to me. I know you guys might not agree but this might be worth a try .

thanks,

Matt

FREEDOM=AMC

[R W Burgess]

Ira, none of the local meets in our area allow loud music. That's been taken care of years ago. Since you have two shows a year, have each show for each car type, then you won't have any problems. A lot of opinions here, take your pick. <img src="http://www.aaca.org/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> Wayne

[novaman]

The club I was invovled with in NY has classes for the street rod cars and trucks. The judging for the show was done by car owners. You entered a car in an antique car class, you voted for a 1st, 2nd, 3rd in a randomly assigned class. if you entered a street rod car say pre-war class you voted for a 1st, 2nd, 3rd from the post war street rod car class.

Here in NC, hot rods seem to be taboo with AACA members. But what I have found interesting is the number of AACA members that have or did own hot rods, for a club that feels so strongly against them.

Also here in NC, it seems that everyone entered in the show HAS to take home a trophy or they go home mad. Personally, if they get that upset over not getting an award they need to find another hobby. This is suppose to be fun and if they can let something like no getting an award get them that bent out of shape, something is wrong.

[bschemesc/rambler]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

Also here in NC, it seems that everyone entered in the show HAS to take home a trophy or they go home mad. Personally, if they get that upset over not getting an award they need to find another hobby. This is suppose to be fun and if they can let something like no getting an award get them that bent out of shape, something is wrong. </div></div>

Right on !!!!!!!!!!!!!! If you own your dream car the biggest award should be driving it. I always wonder , do people really dream about winning a award at a car show ???

thanks,

matt

[rocketraider]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Also here in NC, it seems that everyone entered in the show HAS to take home a trophy or they go home mad. Personally, if they get that upset over not getting an award they need to find another hobby. This is suppose to be fun and if they can let something like no getting an award get them that bent out of shape, something is wrong. </div></div>

Thought I was the only one who noticed that. I have actually seen people try to get hold of the scoresheets and alter them to get the first place trophy. In one local show I used to support with presence, planning and money, some of the judges got in on that mess and made sure the cars they wanted to win firsts, won them. I showed my arse over that once I found it out, and I no longer support that show. Shame too, because it was a good cause- local high school athletic booster club. Told 'em- they should have known better than to alter scores in the classes I had judged, because it is my habit to keep a copy of each car's total points.

A story comes to mind- we had a guy from Kernersville with a 1987 442 that had always taken best of class in every local show it entered. Then along comes the 1995 Olds National Meet and the car got a low first place (>900 points) and did not win the best of class. The whole family pitched a fit at the awards banquet, never stopping to consider that a low first place National win trumped any local Best of Show award that car could possibly have received. All they saw was that they didn't get best of class. We haven't seen them since, and I'm told thru the grapevine that they sold the car soon after that show, because it was no longer a winner in their eyes and therefore not worth owning.

Gawd, can't people go stupid over trivial stuff?

[bschemesc/rambler]

Do you know of any shows that are for all the Hurst cars or are they just for Olds. It would be great to see all the makes of cars that Hurst helped in one place .

thanks,

matt

FREEDOM=AMC

[Shop Rat]

We had a woman at one of our shows years ago that kept calling the member of our club that was the meet chairman of our "local" fundraiser show. She would not let up. "My car has always won first prize", she kept telling him.

So he drug out one of his old bowling trophies, put a beat up left-over car topper on it and had a new plaque cut for it that proclaimed it was "The Best D**n Car In The World" and mailed it to her. He never heard from her again.

[sflregion]

We present 4 show a year. Jan -April and we bring in our own music. We work with a DJ that plays 50's-70's music. Everything is within our control. The issue is how to define what makes up a hot/street rod and who do we want to be?

[Twitch]

NHRA has a class for everything and anyone going to a sanctioned event can run under the bracket handicap system. In most major car shows, non-AACA, there have always been classes for everything. A 1939 Ford that is totally original, a 1939 Ford that is restored and a 1939 Ford modified all should have their own class. They can't equally compete in the same judging class.

My 1950 Packard is all original save for the front seating area. If it was in competition against a full custom 50 Packard it would be like apples and oranges.

If you have a Best Corvette class it could split into Best Corvette Original/Restored and Best Corvette Modified. That concept works fine for NHRA and other racing organizations.

One of my problematic perceptions is the fact that any and all 25 year old cars are "classics." I have a problem with imagining a 1980 Granada or Mustang being under the same umbrella as a 1955 Ford Victoria or 1964 Mustang clumped together as "classic." Let's face it any car club is going to suffer if they don't have a stable membership. If there aren't enough "original" cars and owners to bolster the financial end of things something needs to be done.

Certainly every class in any club must abide by the rules. So what if an unrestored 1948 DeSoto is in the same club as a restored 1964 Impala SS convertable and a 1949 Mercury lowered and chopped?

I like and appreciate all types of auto genres from all eras- 100% original, hot rod, formula one, Indy cars, gran turismo, land speed record cars, imports, prototype and so on. I just don't classify them as the same and any entity judging them can't either.

The pubic by and large is the same way. If they go to an auto show event they like to look at a diversity of automobilia. If the local Henry J club has a show with their 21 cars the attendance is quite small compared to if many Herny Js were encompassed into a larger show with 450 cars of all types. There should be a balanced limit to the catagory entries so no one type overpowers and takes over.

Better to allow a mild custom 50 Merc into the fray than a 1980 Dodge Colt.

[R W Burgess]

Ira, I went back to your original post where you said we need to find "out what "cars" make up our club?" I don't believe you should narrow down your members car selection as someone will get mad before it is over with.

The comment.. "to define what makes up a hot/street rod" is another question that will never be answered as every rod is made different by its owner "on purpose".

I think your club needs to remember that any club is not as much about cars as it is about "people having fun". Without that idea in mind, every club would not last long. Wayne

[Ron Green]

Having run a successful local car show for years it has ended after the 10 year mark. Trophies (nice) for a fair amount of classes run $900 to $1,200. Mostly funded through local businesses as the entrants will #itch if you charge over a $8 entrance fee, but they prefer free. Of course my wife and I would log well over 200 hours a year setting this show up as no other people volunteered any help.

As discussed many like to have trophies. People with modified cars (blower) would argue they belong in the stock class. People didn't like the judging system (entrant vote), one complained that the 3" golf pencils I handed out for judging were inferior (Cross pen & pencil set?), one family wanted to swim in the trout pond, my friend Bruce Larson would bring a different funny car each year at no charge however I was asked why don't we fly in a NASCAR guy like Dale Jr? People that would win a trophy wondered why I didn't mail it to them since they left early. If it was hot they berated me to end the show early so they could leave. The hamburgers should be 20 cents cheaper. Clueless!

They did one show after I quit with the car counts dropping over 80%. Haven't had a show since however they continue to beg me to start it back up. The money the show raised went to a annual Christmas party for children. Without those trophies more money to the party but no vehicles on the show field. God bless those who run the shows and deal with all the problems.

My latest is "do not judge". My garage is full of trophies that take up valuable parts space. See you in Roanoke, Hershey or the Founders tour.

[ex98thdrill]

I'd let them in. It'll give you more exposure, if your charging admission, it'll bring more people in, and maybe it'll encourage a street rod owner to restore a car to original specs. Besides, it's your show, your region, and I'd say that your region should do as they choose.

I am however not a big fan of the "rice rockets" and wouldn't be too happy to see them at all, but there again, if it brings more people in, you may want to consider it. I would stipulate in the rules that a noise restriction would be enforced, and violators would be removed from the show (loud stereos, smoking tires, excessive revving of engines, etc.)

[sflregion]

Wayne, thank you for your insight. I agree that to define what is a Hot/Street Rod is imposible for the reasons you stated. You also bring out a very good point about remembering that were in this hobby to have fun. That is what should define our club. This year our club is celibrating its 50th Anniversary of which the past 40 years has been as a Regional of the AACA. Our longevity has been sustained my members participating and enjoying our events. This enjoyment and fun is what has defined who we are. We should continue with this formule as long as its working. "If its not broke, don't fix it"

[Twitch]

Aged rice rockets indeed! That's all we need. On my neighborhood walks to help control my wacky blood pressure I see all the "hobby" cars in a 6 square block area and one of the guys that is always cycling older cars through his fix up process has obviously obtained a 70-something Datsun B210. It is in very good but original condition and I thought of this thread immediately with the idea of " what if this guy wanted to enter a show?"

I'd rather go to a show and see hot rods, by whatever definition they are, than a bunch of 25 year old Datsuns 510s, Honda Cvics, and Toyota Coronas.

[jaxops]

It's been said, and I have said it too...AACA needs to recognize that not everyone wants to have a 30s or 40s car. Frankly, meets with a wide array of cars, trucks, professional and military vehicles, hot rods, and low riders, is extremely interesting and fun. I was always welcomed at the Tidewater TransAm Meet in Norfolk because I brought my 70 Electra. It rounded out the field, and they liked the diversity. Note that BCA is having a smiliar discussion again about turning young people off with prejudice towards more modern or custom vehicles.

[ex98thdrill]

AACA is about preserving the automobile. Those rice rockets aren't preserved vehicles, they butchered 4 cylinders running around sounding like a person with a chronic gas problem with an abnoxious stereo to boot. I can't stand the looks of them, I can stand the sound of them running, and to have the base on those stereos rattling your fillings loose isn't too appealing either.

There's only one word to sum up a rice rocket .....annoying

[Ron Green]

The reason I belong to the AACA is because I like being able to go to a national meet and see the pure stock how they were built / engineered vehicles, as that is my preference. If I want to see heavy modified or hotrods I will go to that type of meet as I do own one. If I want to see a little of both I go to a local show.

There are fewer and fewer stock shows with most having more modified or hotrods. In my opinion it would be a shame to loose the few remaining stock shows. Another 10 years there probably won't be but a handful of 55-7 Chevys that haven't been butchered.

[ex98thdrill]

....very true. It's almost like those guys driving around in them old Pontiacs with their factory razors.

I couldn't resist Ron

[Ron Green]

Not to mention the factory Thermaster refrigerator or Thermaster hot/cold jug with stainless cups. At least when I arrive I am shaved and refreshed. Who says factory stock can't be cool without having to use the torch!

[Dave@Moon]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

I'd rather go to a show and see hot rods, by whatever definition they are, than a bunch of 25 year old Datsuns 510s, Honda Cvics, and Toyota Coronas. </div></div>

I'll be at that show with you, but you can bet someone in AACA can't wait to open the door to that crap and alienate more AACA members with true old cars. </div></div>

Five years ago when this forum started it would've been unthinkable to denigrate an AACA eligible car on the AACA website, regardless of type. Now it's barely noticed. I remember being chastised mightily early on for suggesting that interest in restoration and collecting will drop off as 80's cars become eligible and the current pool of cars dries up.

But at least I didn't make personal value judgements about those who'd follow in our footsteps.

[Shop Rat]

Dave,

I couldn't agree more. I think as a matter respect for the people who will carry this hobby on after we are all gone, we need to welcome anyone and any "from the factory" vehicle that someone wants to preserve.

There are clubs for people that only like one brand or even one style of car. But the AACA is open to all brands and styles as long as they remain true to how they came from whatever factory they came out of.

Some people here in the Charleston area love to rag on the Toyotas. But they never stop to think that the Toyota plant that was built here puts food on the table, provides benefits and scholarships to local families that would not have them if not for Toyota. This is a wonderful opportunity for them to provide a better life than what they could otherwise.

[Shop Rat]

They don't have to like those cars. Just as you do not have to like their cars. But we can treat each other with common respect. Most people that collect and restore cars have at least, or want, one of the cars we grew up with. Or the car we desperately wanted but could not afford until we got older and had some expendable cash to let go of.

If we all liked the same thing, there would not be enough to go around.

The cars that we have are not any better or any worse than what someone else has. But it is what we like. And no, we don't have what you call "rice burners/rockets".

[ex98thdrill]

Very true Susan,

I'm not against the foreign built cars, but I am against the modifications made to these foreign built cars. Those cars are annoying to look at, they're annoying to hear, but I'm sure back in the day, my grandparents / great grandparents probably had the same feelings towards what guys were doing to the '32 Fords.

As a tribute to our youth, at least they have picked out cars that get good gas mileage. When I was a teenager driving a car in school, you didn't want a car with a four cylinder that was good on gas?? NO!! we had to have the car with a V-8, a set of dual exhaust, a set of mag wheels, and a nice paint job where the gas guage would drop at almost the same rate as the speedometer went up.

Although I am an owner of 70's and 80's built cars, I will say this..... The Datsun, Honda, Toyota, etc. actually built better cars that what we had in the US at the time. That doesn't mean I'd own one, but when it came to quality, they had us beat back then. As these cars reach 25 years old, we should welcome them like we do everything else. Wether we like them or not, they are a part of automotive history that have earned their place in the club just like everything else. Maybe the 510 Datsun or the Corolla may be considered s$%tboxes, you still had the 280 Z's, Celeca's, MR2's, etc. that had earned their own reputation for being innovative, sporty and good looking cars. Today's foreign built cars are almost as much or more domestic than the american name brand cars are.

[Twitch]

I was talking about the non-modified plain Jane imports not the "Fast & Furious" tricked out cars. A 240Z type and other more distinctive imports are fine. But like the B210 I saw is scary. The totally average clone cars just aren't classics in any sense of the word. But the point of what should/could be allowed as addressed as something to generate attendence and revenue, hot rods will bring out more people than cloneish econo-transport commuter cars 25 years+. Toyotas are great cars. I just don't believe that an 1980 Corona or a 1973 Datsun B210 are worthy of classic status and certainly wouldn't bring more folks out than street rods or whatever they are called. When I saw that B210 it dawned on me that this "thing" is a classic in the legal sense of the word. '

At Long Beach Swap Meet recently they had the usual cars for sale besides the boths. There were probably 100+ cars, stockers and modified in "project car" status or completely restored condition. People perusing the vehicles looked at and appreciated both types equally. No one went "Eeuuww!" at stock 1939s while they went "Awesome!" at modifieds. The absence, in the heart of a great car culture community, of old, plain import stock vehicles was resounding.

All people will look at old American cars stock or modified with interest while all would not lust over 1965 Datsuns and such. They have their own specialized following where the old American stuff is loved by all.

On the other hand I'd rather look at nice examples of pre-1960 European cars than like-new "classic" Mavericks, Pintos, K-cars or Vegas.

The theme of this thread originally was about what should be allowed into a show to bolster attendance. If you have rules enforce them. Allow hot rods in, limit their numbers and make sure they follow the rules. Most "modified" cars are not very far from stock anyway and people will identify with them along with original cars.

[Shop Rat]

I am with you on some of the after-market problems with them. Loud radios that would make a stone deaf person able to hear by the sheer volumn alone. Bill and I laugh at some of the cars. It is literally a piece of junk but there is a $4,000 radio system in it. And if they ever wrecked all the radio equipment would kill them if it ever broke loose and started flying around in the car with them.

And the ones that they put the adjustable air foils on the back. Like they are EVER going to be going fast enough to need that.

I guess that is their way of "souping up" their cars today. Mostly it's flash to attract girls. But wasn't it always that way?

[Dave@Moon]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> No one went "Eeuuww!" at stock 1939s while they went "Awesome!" at modifieds. </div></div>

Back to the original subject, this quote sticks in my craw somewhat. It misrepresents the problem. No one would expect <span style="font-style: italic">any</span> street rodder to turn their nose up at authentic cars any more than one would expect a baker to turn his nose up at bags of flour.

Of course not all rodders see restored and HPOF "stock" cars in that way, not even large minority do.

But enough do.

[R W Burgess]

I'll stick this post to Ira, in that he started the thread. I see mention of B210's and other "riceburners" as not being worth the trouble to look at. The thing we need to remember is that in the future when you speak of restorers, we need to remember that not everyone can afford to purchase the "almost all original" "350Z" or whatever to restore. Just like today, the AACA allows even "lowly" four door antigue cars and we also recognize the time and expense put in the restoration whether we actually like the car of not. We must not lose our original vision of "all stock antique cars allowed"! This hobby is for fun, correct? Fun for the restorer, fun for the spectator!

Reminds me of what I heard on the Sentimental Tour this past year. The gentleman said, "If we don't do anything else this year(2005), we're going to have FUN!" I'm sure our new AACA President, Dave Zimmerman doesn't mine me letting you know that HE will certainly have fun this year as he made that statement. <img src="http://www.aaca.org/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> Wayne

[Paul Dobbin]

Ira,

When local groups put on shows, the general public comes to see "old cars".

So we should welcome any car originally built within the paramiters of our

shows, i.e.: pre WWII, 50 years and older, 25 years and older or 20 years,

you set the limit.

Then: offer the participants the choice of being in a judged class with judging criteria being "as they left the factory" OR driver participation or

SHOW ONLY class. Judged for one fee, everybody else at 1/2 price.

This goes a long way to get new people involved and improve the show for the public. Maybe we could shed the "old fart antiquer" image that is created everytime we tell somebody they are wrong to like something other than what

we like.

Not all old car people care so much about trophies and "original", that dosen't mean they don't care about old cars.

Example: 32 years ago I joined the local club and was the youngest guy there,

I still am!!! (well, almost) My dual exhausts on my 34 Ford Flathead and deluxe paint on a standard car with wide whitewalls didn't make me a street rodder, but lots of old farts told me "it didn't come that way from the factory and I wouldn't win any national trophies with it". I knew that but, I liked the sound and the deluxe color and wide whitewalls AND I didn't need any trophies!

Later on it was welcome on several Glidden Tours a couple Great Races and nobody

objected to the dual, paint or tires. It was an fun car that lasted us 26 years

of antique automobile fun. (even won some trophies in local shows).

SO LET THEM ALL IN, they choose the class.

[Twitch]

Paul- that's what I'm talking about. I could care less about judging or trophies on any car I own. That's absolutely NOT why I like or own old cars, because I might win something.

I think I was misunderstood on the point of 30 year old compact economy sedans- the general public will not feel a value is gained if they pay money and see old Datsun and K-car econo sedans. Rather, from a marketing standpoint, street rods WILL draw PAYING atendees. MAYBE in another 25 years a then 50 year old Dodge Aires K car or Datsun B210 will be rare enough, or interesting enough to large numbers of people, I don't know.

Would anyone be real excited about attending a show today and seeing the usual mix of cars with an added horde of 1955 Hillman Minx, Himber Snipes, Toyoto Toyo-Pets, VWs, Opels, Henry Js and King Midgets?

People have been modifying cars as long as there have been cars, too. Hot rodders do not see 100% origonal as fodder for slicing and dicing. Go to a hot rod website forum and ask like I did and you'll find that nearly 100% of the guys there would never think of ripping of a restored stocker. This is some urban myth that rodders are destroying rare old cars or a TV show script with the goofballs of Monster Garage. The rodder's answer why would they want to start with, say, 1932 technology when modern repro technology exists?

Rodders either bought an already modified cars or the real rodders buy a modern hobby chassis and us today's tech and parts to complete it. If they use a rusted body that's been decaying in a field for 70 years,instead of 'glass repro, is that worse than allowing it to turn to dust?

I'm talking about what type of vehicle will positively draw people to shows. Except for tiny niches where K-cars or 1950s Opels are reveired the public wants to see something interesting. Not allowing hot rods into a show because they may take over due to lax rule adherance reflects on those enforcing the rules not the breaker of the rules. If a scad of VW guys entered a show they'd be just as likely to be abusers of rules within the laws of probability. What type of vehicles mix would your neighbors and their kids or grandkids like to see? Think about it.

[A by the sea]

Bear with me hear.

Consider most states require any cars that are modified beyond a certain point as being not the original car.

So any car that is titled with a year of manufacture title but is substantially modified may not be legally titled. In NJ they must get a new car title and submit to a safety inspection.

Most insurance companies will not cover vehicles that are not being legally driven. A car that is not correctly titled is not correctly registered. If the insurance company has a way out you know they are going to take it.

So that 1930 whatever with a mustang front end, and a jag rear and a 454 that is titled as a 1930 whatever is not legal in most states.

Where do the liabilities lay??

Any police here to comment??

In NJ I know it technically is a matter of pointing it out to a police officer and they have to do their job. I was curious and I asked. No I will not do it, but I was curious.

How much longer till the states realize they are missing out on a lot of easy money requiring hot rods to be properly titled?

[R W Burgess]

California is already doing this as they just jumped on Boyd Cottington's Company. Wayne

[Twitch]

I think the legality thing is that it's considered a "kit car" like the Cobras and many 1930s-era Ford kits that were produced.

[ted sweet]

As an AACA and Good Guys member I feel some of the attitudes toward any car that isn't 100% stock and wasn't built before 1940 is pushing away AACA members. I have been beat up over the fact my 68 300 Vert has radial tires, halogan headlights and and aftermarket temp gauage and no loner show itor my 73 Dart or 74 Cuda at any event that judges on AACA standards. I drive these car 3000 miles per year per car.. I also own what would be considered here a modified car, a 70 dodge challenger R/T, it has a aftermarket carb, headers and aftermarket gauges and seats.I also drive this car. Nothing that I can't put back in an afternnon.