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Packard "Firsts"


55PackardGuy

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55Packardguy: Here is a something I found by a Packard historian about the introduction of the steering wheel by Packard on the 1901 Model C.

At the New York Auto Show in November 1900, the 1901 Model C was an instant attention getter. It's novel steering wheel not only stood out but evoked discussions pro and con about it practicality. At this time, the steering wheels WERE NOT NEW, HAVING BEEN USED ON MOST HEAVY TRUCKS AND SOME EUROPEAN CARS, and might also add that I have stated in the past used on some makes of automobiles produced in the USA, long before Packard started using the steering wheel. This aurthor as you can see makes no claims as to Packard being the first automobile to use a steering wheel.

If you are interested I can provide the source of my information and the aurthor. Speeking of sources I would be very intersted in seeing what sources PI used to compile the list that they made. Since you have been in contact with both clubs about the sources that they might have use, what kind of answer have you gotten from them.

John F. Shireman

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John,

Thanks for those informative posts... whether or not you "refute" or "redeem" an entry on the list is fine with me. But I'm glad you're including some of each.

I believe yours was the only objection to the aluminum crankcase, so I agree it should probably go back on the list if no one else protests. Thanks for looking into that and finally locating a date!

The steering wheel debate has long since passed as far as I'm concerned. It's like trying to figure out who invented the wheel! However, as noted in your source, it wasn't a common feature of cars, and was novel enough to cause a "stir" on the car show circuit. Another Packard feature that was uncommon was the foot pedal accelerator, but once again it's probably an example of "early adoption" and popularizing it, not "inventing" it.

What I did half-jokingly mention before--but I think might be bonafide--is that Packard's early steering wheel HAD a unique feature. I'd like to see if anyone can come up with a refutation of this one... it was mentioned in Kimes, page 40, regarding refinements to the 1901 Model C:

"The major change was the steering wheel, <span style="font-style: italic">which tilted forward for ease of entrance and egress</span> on the first group of twelve Model C's produced." (emphasis added)

Aha! The first tilt steering wheel?

Also mentioned in this same quote was one other mechanical change in the Model C, and a probable Packard innovation:

"...the cylinder...was revised from a square casting with flat copper sides for cooling to the new--<span style="font-style: italic">and soon to be patented--</span>round copper cooling jacket."

Sounds like a "first" to me: The round copper cooling jacket.

The "H" pattern shifter mentioned in Kimes seems to refer to the earlier introduction date, referencing as it does material in the Packard news release for the 1900 Model B, but the most telling quote (page 39) empahsizes that "the 'H' gear slot [was] patented by Packard," so it's a definite bonafide Packard innovation. You may have found another innovation in that "sliding gear 3-speed transmission" in the Model L in 1904.

As for the use of that pesky 4th lever position in the 1900 Model B, here's a desciption of the setup from Kimes, page 38, quoting from the Packard news release:

"The two forward speeds, the reverse and the brake are controlled by a single lever in the right hand of the driver." (It also mentions that there is in addition to the hand brake a "powerful foot brake.")

SO... it appears that 4th position was originally the hand brake!

Thanks for asking about that, I'd have never thought to look.

This statement kind of puzzles me:

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">55Packardguy: When people like you want to let the rest of the world know how good Packard actually was, and the true accomplishments they they acheived, you had better be darn good at unearthing materials that can back those claims. Especially when someone comes along with refernce material that can refute those claims, like the alot of the ones originally posted by PI , pertaining to the Packards First list.</div></div>I'm puzzled because it still sounds like you think I'm some sort of booster regarding the original PAC (not PI) list that I started this thread with. Please go back and read the original post--I specifically made NO endorsement of the list. The reason I posted it was <span style="font-style: italic">specifically</span> to have it discussed and critiqued by our own "Packard experts" on the forum, as I suspected a lot of the items were debatable.

The additions I've suggested since then are, generally, things I've backed up with materials I've "unearthed." I certainly didn't make them up out of the blue sky. Some things I conjectured on, but specifically put them out there as speculative. As for the later-posted PI list, I think I will check with those guys about where they came up with their variation. They were very nice about allowing portions of their copyrighted tribute to Alvan Macauley to be posted here. I already asked PAC about having the gentlemen who were credited with that list give us some background, but they apparently chose not to follow up. (I don't think they're just being difficult, and they certainly don't owe me anything.) But I'd LOVE to get some people who know the source material from those lists to contribute here, or perhaps to verify our speculations that the lists are based on some "traditional" (and a bit stretched) factoids put together by the Packard PR department.

Also, I've got a couple more conjectures to make for Packard innovations. Hint: they're mentioned in my original post. Can't imagine how I've neglected them all this time!

Thanks everyone for your continued input on the "Packard Firsts" topic. No, it won't always be "nice weather" but at least it's an interesting climate!

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55Packardguy: With all the research that I do, I already had the answer to H slot question,when I asked you.

James Ward Packard in 1900 through extensive road testing came up wiht a special radius link which prevented loss of steering control, when the cars wheels became elevated after hitting a bump or object in the road.

James Ward Packard applies for his first automotive patent on January 16, 1900 which the patent is for the radius link. February 12, 1900 Packard recieves its first automotive patent.

What was the year and exact date that Packard recieved a patent for the spark advance.

John F. Shireman

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55Packardguy: Here is the answer to the question I asked you about the spark advance, and when the patent was issued to Packard. The date that the patent was issued to Pakcard February 12th 1901.

This is some speculation on my part about the H slot gear slot and when and and if a patent was issued like you have stated. The date that they might have recieved the patent for might have been very close to the date they got the patent for the spark advance.

John F. Shireman

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I remember hearing something about that "radius link" and its uniqueness, yet I've never seen it on a list of Packard "firsts." Curious.

One thing about patents is I suspect they're not international but U.S. patents, and hence there's possibly a need to note "first in U.S." or "U.S. patent."

This is encouraging stuff.

So, we could possibly add:

Steering radius link, patented 1900

Round copper cylinder cooling jacket, 1901

(Patent date to come?)

Tilt steering wheel, 1901 (if we can get away with it) <img src="http://forums.aaca.org/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Fast-forwarding to Packard's latest years, I wonder why these couldn't be included:

Wrap-around front direction signal lenses, 1955

Side-marker lamps, 1955

Both of these were on 2-door senior models that year. The centrally located side marker lamps also brightened when the door was opened, so they doubled as courtesy lights.

I don't have any documentation on these as being a "first" for Packard, but I can't recall having seen any U.S. cars, at least, with wraparound front signals until late 50's/early 60's, when I think Buick had them. It could also be posted for comments on the AACA General "Firsts" thread.

I did replace the Aluminum Crankcase entry on the latest version of the list posted here.

Any other thoughts?

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  • 2 weeks later...

55Packardguy: It seems that interest in the Packards First List has been fading lately.

As you know I do alot of research when it comes to things related to automotive history. I have come

up with an intersting finding, that involves one of the items on the Packard First List. What if I told you that Packard may not have been the first car to use the electric push-button method for gear selection. That this method may have been used 20 years before Packard used it.

John F. Shireman

MEMBER OF THE 5M

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Guest Randy Berger

Yes, but like 57 Mercs it is mechanical, not electrical. Note the absence of PARK. I don't remember if my 55 plymouth has PARk on the slot handle or not?? Was Chrysler like Olds and didn't have park till 57 or later??

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<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Yes, but like 57 Mercs it is mechanical, not electrical. Note the absence of PARK. I don't remember if my 55 plymouth has PARk on the slot handle or not?? Was Chrysler like Olds and didn't have park till 57 or later?? </div></div>

Hi Randy,

IIRC, the Edsel had a full electric pushbutton arraignment in the steering wheel hub in 1958? (two years post Packard).

I also recall seeing a prewar Delahaye with an electro-mechanical ?preselect? transmission feature. Gear shifting was accomplished via a small lever rather than buttons tho.

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Guest Randy Berger

John, the Edsel pushbutton is an Autolite unit identical to the Packard version. Someone once told me (Mr Pushbutton?) that Autolite did all new tooling for it but it was still the same design. They only had a five-finger contact segment while Packard was six. They also had an hydraulically actuated switch to shut off PNR but it failed quickly and everyone just bypasses it.

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55Packardguy: I am disapointed in your lack of responce about the pushbutton question I posed to you. Since I am now again getting bored with this thread, I will post my findings at a later date.

This is because I have found in my library some interviews conducted with Dick Teague about his time spent at Packard. That information will be posted and shared in another Packard venue.

John F. Shireman

Member of

THE LEAGUE OF EXTRAODINARY GENTLEMEN

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  • 3 weeks later...

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">... the Edsel pushbutton is an Autolite unit identical to the Packard version. Someone once told me (Mr Pushbutton?) that Autolite did all new tooling for it but it was still the same design.</div></div>

Randy,

According to Kimes, Autolite went and TRASHED the tooling after Packard went out of business, making it, which Studebaker found out when they tried to make a run of parts to service parts units in the field.

It's kind of ambiguous, though, whether the tooling was still around in '57, because it states that Studebaker didn't try to make more parts until the early Sixties.

But it may be that Autolite had to re-create the tooling for the Edsel unit because Packard's tooling was already gone.

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<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I will post my findings at a later date.</div></div> Whenever you get around to it is fine. I don't think there are any deadlines here. Quite a bit of discussion on the pushbutton thing, so feel free to add or subtract. It's nice that people check in when they've got a chance, and all of us have lots of venues to choose from. To each his (or her) own.

<span style="font-weight: bold">BUT</span>, I <span style="font-style: italic">did</span> kind of expect some "yays or nays" about the side marker lights.

What say you all?

And yet another possibility: Power door lock switches that control all four electric locks from the front seat on 4-door models, as a safety feature. Kimes mentions that this feature was introduced on the '56 models, and to quote: "...it wasn't given much publicity, however, and a lot of other companies 'invented' it later." (pg 606).

So, was Packard the first to offer 4-door lock controls?

P.S. John S.

Re your comment on fading interest earlier. Not that it's a contest or anything, but The "Packard Firsts" thread was in the high 9000's of hits last time I checked in a few weeks ago. Now it's pushing 11K. Your post on push-button transmissions received 5 replies before mine. <span style="font-style: italic">Somebody</span> must be interested. But, once again, it's not a contest... it's just nice to know that some folks are enjoying the Packard talk. A lot are just reading, and it would be nice to hear from them, but that's their choice.

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<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><span style="font-weight: bold">BUT</span>, I <span style="font-style: italic">did</span> kind of expect some "yays or nays" about the side marker lights.

What say you all?

And yet another possibility: Power door lock switches that control all four electric locks from the front seat on 4-door models, as a safety feature. Kimes mentions that this feature was introduced on the '56 models, and to quote: "...it wasn't given much publicity, however, and a lot of other companies 'invented' it later." (pg 606).

So, was Packard the first to offer 4-door lock controls?

P.S. John S.

Re your comment on fading interest earlier. Not that it's a contest or anything, but The "Packard Firsts" thread was in the high 9000's of hits last time I checked in a few weeks ago. Now it's pushing 11K. Your post on push-button transmissions received 5 replies before mine. <span style="font-style: italic">Somebody</span> must be interested. But, once again, it's not a contest... it's just nice to know that some folks are enjoying the Packard talk. A lot are just reading, and it would be nice to hear from them, but that's their choice. </div></div>

Hello Guy,

I think the side marker/courtesy lights are a first at least for US production cars, tho some European countries may have mandated some sort of side marker lights earlier. As I recall, German cars used a side ?parking? light in the early 1960?s if not earlier.

Re this thread losing interest, the little flame at the left-hand border is still burning, so I guess people are still viewing. Do you know if PI or PAC have received an updated ?Packard Firsts? list?

Cheers,

John

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55Packardguy: I guess that I should have been specific in my reply to you as far as lack of interet.

Should have worded it lack of interest in anyone making any contributions to the list. I have paided little attention to the list lately, as I don't spend all my time reading one book on the history of Packard as some do.

It probably is a good thing that people come into this forum to read a true acount of Packard's automotive first. This is certainly better than other lists published, that are out there for people to read.

Maybe with you publishing the original list in here was a good thing, that way it gave Packard lovers like myslef and some others that are VERY GOOD HISTORIANS, who just don't limit thier research to just Packards, gave us a chance to weed out the false claims from the list. I might also state to be able to make aditions to the list.

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  • 1 month later...

This is not really a Packard first but I thought it interesting. I was on long plane flight yesterday and one of the DVD's I packed to watch on the plane was "Enzo Ferrari 1898-1988" by Duke Video.

It is basically a biography which included some archive interviews (in Italian with English treanslation).

In one of the interviews Ferrari was asked what inspired him early--he said he saw a Indianapolis race car (1919 I think--may have the year wrong) and that had twelve cyclinders. He said from that moment on he wanted to build 12 cyclinder race cars. He saqid the car was a Packard!

So I guess you can claim that Packard was Ferrari's first inspiration!

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Neat Ferrari/Packard story, Bill. I dunno if qualified automotive historians will give it a 100% bonafide pass, though. We'll see.

I also read a story somewhere that Enzo's passion for the V12 was not the looks so much as what it SOUNDED like. It was apparently very important to him that his cars had just the right distinctive snarl to go with the rest of their mystique--and nothing did it like twleve cylinders. Heck, he didn't even care if it was a "V", so long as it sang the right tune!

CONGRATS Turbo. I believe you are correct, sir. Although I looked it up quite a while ago and don't want to dig out the book. Any seconds to the motion for Touch Button Ultramatic? Are there any hyphens involved?

Packard8,

Thanks for the hopeful outlook on the side-marker lights (and don't forget wraparound front signal lenses). This might be another '55 Packard First, (maybe two) but I guess it's best to be cautious until more parties are heard from.

ALSO, anyone find out any more on the door lock control?

The flame does keep burning next to this thread, thanks to all the readers and contributors, but I notice the stars are going out again. I think there's at least one multiple-avatar funster out there who likes to sandbag it. But to each his own, although it looks kinda funny--it must be the only thread on AACA with over 11K views and a paltry two stars. That would seem to indicate that lots of people are just droppin by for disappointment's sake. No worries, though.

<img src="http://forums.aaca.org/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

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  • 5 months later...

Packard8,

Are you out there? Long time since I visited here. Just wore out on the tussles, I guess.

Last time I checked, 6 months ago, this thread had 11K "Views." Now it has almost 13K, but no additional replies.

Did I say something discouraging? Or is it just fun to read rather than reply to? Hope everyone is doing OK! smile.gif

Take care,

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here's a thought. What about "ram induction" and "wedge shaped" combustion chambers. Yes, "technically" the Packard V-12 was a flat-head ( introduced for the 1932 model year, and called the "Twin Six" for marketing purposes, but having NO connection to the much earlier and more primitive "REAL" Twin Six of 1914-1923) but, having both ram induction and wedge shaped combustion chambers, may have been a "first"..?

The Stromberg EE-3 carb had, to my knowledge, the biggest bores of any production carbuerator until the four barrel carbs of the early 1950's. Packard V-12's were not only BIG engines in terms of displacement, but could "breath" very deeply because of the "balanced induction" system that I do not recall seeing on ANYTHING pre-war. Both the "ram-induction" and the gentle large exhuast system, at least to my untrained eye, are MUCH larger and more efficient than ANYTHING I have seen in production pre-war (pre Chrysler "Hemi" motors) cars, with the exception of course, of the "J" series Duesenburgs.

What's the significance of the wedge shape conbustion chamber ? PLENTY! Unlike an ordinary flat-head, the Packard V-12 cyl. head was NOT at right angle to the bore. The piston was wedge shaped, to further increase combustion chamber turbulence, and "squish" the mixture for max. effiency (given the fuels, which dictated relatively low compression, the added complexity and noise of over-head valves didn't make sense to Packard engineers of that day).

Were these design features "firsts". I think so. Hopefully, someone with more engineering knowledge as to how the technology of the auto engine evolved, can help us out.

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  • 1 month later...

Hey John and all. Long summer, not much fun really. I miss the give-and-take of this forum, but just don't seem to have the energy to get into the fray. Lots of interesting new threads. Nice to see this one is still generating some "views." Never thought it would grow like it did way back when it started. I think that it might even have a little historical value, bringing together some Packard highlights to read that might otherwise have been missed by Packard-lovers. Also, maybe some "history in the making" as we question some of the accepted Packard lore and find some new possible "firsts."

Packard Enthusiast,

You may well have something there with the "wedge," but I'm not sure who would be able to come up with the verification. I do believe that Packard continued with the wedge head concept in the V8 of '55 and '56. At least the engineering drawings sure look like a wedge-shaped combustion chamber. I believe the piston was flat, though.

Any V12 afficianados out there care to comment?

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  • 3 weeks later...

JT,

I tried looking at the U-Tube Chrysler Pushbutton Automatic commercial but it had been deleted due to "misuse of content" or something.

A little OT here, but I searched on Packard and found this nice film from the 2005 Packard Meet. Not sure of the location for the shots, but it's a Packard-spotters dream.

I believe there are 48 different cars, some tricky cuts right at the end make it a little hard to say.

Anybody care to take a shot at naming all the years and models in order of appearance??

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  • 1 year later...

Packard "Firsts" list update 12-25-08

Merry Christmas to All. I just happened to be checking the number of views or "hits" this thread has had, and the number of replies. (Sort of showing off to my brother-in-law about the thread.) I discovered that it is up to 30,000 views, which put it at the top number for the Packard forum. It was second in replies, but hasn't had a reply since October '07. It's still active, but not commented on. Is somebody waiting to see a results? Perhaps then there can be more refutations, or maybe we've just done such a thorough job with the latest Packard "Firsts" list that most on this thread can see are justified. The post was also replicated under the "Packard Firsts? title for review on the General forum.

One caveat remains; Some of these firsts may be first in U.S. automobiles, although many foreign makes were considered when compiling it. there might be some obscure ones out there that have some prior claim on thes innovations. Sometimes this has been noted as "First in U.S." to clarify, such as the hydraulic shocks listing. Items that were U.S. patents for Packard are noted when known. ALL THE ITEMS WERE USED ON REGULAR PRODUCTION CARS, not just patented. Many of them are in use in some form on today's cars.

As you may know, the seed of this project was started with a list from the PAC forum, which was re-printed with permission in the original post, as a point from which to start discussion (nobody believed all the claims in that list could pass scrutiny of the knowledgeable people at AACA, and particularly the Packard Forum. I made a healthy disclaimer to assure others that I was not advocating or disparaging the list, just presenting it (and I still took a lot of heat for what others considered was my championing of the list as it stood.)

I think the following really is a better list. I have more confidence in it than the original version posted. Many items have been culled, but many have been added. There is some attrition that has resulted in a shorter, but I think, tighter list. THANK YOU to all who contributed by either showing evidence of false claims or adding items that were backed up with facts and ultimately accepted by the active contributors who researched possible alternatives.

In the words of John Shireman, a frequent contributor and critic:

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">It probably is a good thing that people come into this forum to read a true acount of Packard's automotive first. This is certainly better than other lists published, that are out there for people to read.

Maybe . . . publishing the original list in here was a good thing, that way it gave Packard lovers like myslef and some others that are VERY GOOD HISTORIANS, who just don't limit their research to just Packards, gave us a chance to weed out the false claims from the list. I might also state to be able to make additions to the list.</div></div>

I don't pretend to be a great historian about automobiles or anything else. But I do have a lot of passion for seeking out published facts (or at least things presented as facts) on automobiles--particularly Packards.

There were many contributors and watchdogs working through this list, and some of the most knowledgeable Packard people you'd find anywhere.

If you want to get all their contributions... READ THE THREAD!

Here is the list that stands today. The Packard Automobile Club and Packards International are cordially invited to look it over and compare it with their lists and make suggestions, or even adopt the list for publication or use.

Please dedicate it to: "Those Packard Nuts and Geniuses over at AACA."

<span style="font-weight: bold"><span style="text-decoration: underline">PACKARD FIRSTS</span></span>

1. Automatic spark advance (1899) Patented February 12, 1901

2. Steering radius link, Patented February 12, 1900 (Packard's First Automotive Patent)

3. "H" pattern selective gear shift (1900)

4. Round copper cylinder cooling jacket (1901)

5. Tilt steering wheel (1901)

6. Aluminum crankcase (1904)

7. Hypoid differential (1925)

8. Hydraulic shock absorbers on U.S. vehicle (1926)

9. Backup lights (1927)

10. Self cleaning full flow oil filter (1934)

11. Pressurized cooling system (1938)

12. Air conditioning (1939)

13. Padded dash (1939)

14. Electric power windows (1940)

15. Direct drive (locking) torque converter (1949)

16. Electric power antenna (1951)

17. Power steering linkage mounted to frame (1953)

18. Standard tubeless tires (1954)

19. Fully interconnected 4-wheel torsion bar suspension (1955)

20. Electric load leveler (1955)

21. Wrap-around front direction signal lenses (1955)

22. Central Side-marker lamps (1955)

23. Limited slip differential (1956)

24. Pushbutton electric selector for automatic transmission (1956)

25. Reversible seat cushions (1956)

26. Aluminum automatic transmission case (1956)

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Guest imported_1965V12P

55Packardguy

Mr. Shireman has not made any posts in this forum or any other AACA forums for over two years. He seems to make all his contributions and postings at Packardinfo.com.

PS: The last list you posted is still highly FLAWED

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Thank you for your thoughts. If you read through the thread, you will note that there are many active Packard admirers who have contributed to this list as it stands. It is not a personal list of mine but was a joint effort. As for the quote, it was originally posted under another avatar on the AACA forum, but at some point, the avatar was removed and all posts now appear under an "Anonymous" heading. I thought it was a thoughtful comment and put it in the introduction to this list. The source cited is accurate. This thread was started in 2005.

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  • 1 year later...
I was on long plane flight yesterday and one of the DVD's I packed to watch on the plane was Enzo Ferrari 1898-1988 by Duke Video.

In one of the interviews Ferrari was asked what inspired him early--he said he saw an Indianapolis race car (1919 I think--may have the year wrong) that had twelve cyclinders. He said from that moment on he wanted to build 12 cyclinder race cars. He said the car was a Packard!

So I guess you can claim that Packard was Ferrari's first inspiration!

Packards have been inspiring auto makers since there were automobiles-- and many of their innovations are still in use today... with little change.

It's been a few years now, but there still seems to be interest in this thread. It stays at the top of the most-viewed regular Packard AACA threads for many years.

It would be fun to get some new ideas and discoveries of Packard "Firsts", or information verifying those that were previously culled from the list for lack of definitive evidence (although many are still often cited as bona fide elsewhere).

Merry Christmas and may Santa bring you some "Packard Firsts" of your own this year. :)

Edited by 55PackardGuy (see edit history)
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  • 4 weeks later...

It's always been this way... more people want to take things off than put them on. I think it'd be a good idea to post where this started, and see how many were taken off from the "original" list, which contains pretty much all the traditional things that were attributed as developments of the Packard Motor Car Company.

Be careful PAC members, note that this came from your website!

1. "H" pattern selective gear shift (1899)

2. Steering wheel (1901)

3. Automatic spark advance (1899)

4. Rumble seat (1908)

5. Hand brake left of driver (1915)

6. First twelve cylinder engine in U.S. (1915)

7. Aluminum piston automobile engine (1915)

8. Hypoid differential (1925)

9. Hydraulic shock absorbers (1926)

10. Backup lights (1927)

11. Pressurized cooling system (1933)

12. Oil temperature regulator (1833)

13. Full flow oil filter (1933)

14. Central automatic chassis lubricator (1933)

15. Standard automatic radiator shutters (1933)

16. ?Ride control? for shock absorbers (1933)

17. Self cleaning full flow oil filter (1934)

18. Power hydraulic brakes (1936)

19. Aluminum crankcase

20. Air conditioning (1939)

21. Sealed beam headlights (1939)

22. Padded dash (1939)

23. Pleated upholstery (1939)

24. Power windows (1940)

25. All steel station wagon (1948)

26. Reverse rear window (1953)

27. Torsion bar suspension (1955)

28. Electric load leveler (1955)

29. Thermostatically controlled water circulation

30. Accelerator pedal joined with hand throttle

31. First patent on interchangeable wheels

32. Ribbed jacket water-cooled cylinders

33. First patent on radiator with top and bottom reservoirs with tubes

34. First U.S. application of "trunnion block"

35. Glove compartment in instrument panel

36. Folding interior sun visors

37. Pump aided vacuum windshield wipers

38. Lateral stabilizer

39. Under fender cooling tunnels

40. Electric overdrive

41. Standard front and rear bumpers

42. Limited slip differential

43. Fiberglass body

44. Only automobile with complete torsion bar suspension

45. First diesel aircraft

From: "A short story about the beginning of the Packard saga with the Warren era written by Roger T. White, descendant of G. L. Weiss, Co-Founder" found at Packard Automobile Classics, Inc. - The Packard Club

*Presented here with permsission. Includes minor edits for length of entries. To view the original list and the article in which it appeared, see the PAC web site.

The last one isn't exactly automotive, but it's interesting.

I would tentatively add wraparound front direction signals and side marker lights (55 and 56 seniors).

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Rickenbacker had a padded dash in 1925, so delete #13 above, and many cars and carriages had central side marker lights long before 1955, so delete 22 as well.

Dave,

I believe Rickenbacker's application was a race car. These "firsts" generally stick to first successful application in a production model car.

There admittedly was a lot of contentiousness around the item, but if you do a thread search, I believe a strong case was made for Packard's introduction of this as a readily available feature.

BTW, do you have any examples of those "many" cars with side marker lights? (We're not talking "carriages" here.)

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Well, Dave, I'm just about ready to delete that PAC list I posted, because, as always seems to be the case, someone thinks I personally came up with that original list. I did not. That list is from the PAC website.

Repeat, the PAC website.

(and posted here with permission, I might add)

This thread was started in order to critique and change that list to be more realistic. I believe you'll notice that the REVISED list posted above says nothing about pleated upholstery

Also, in spite of the many records that Packard set in aviation and marine applications (you forgot marine) this list is about Packard AUTOMOBILES. How could you expect to broaden it to include all Packard records, when it's unmanageable enough to just concentrate on automotive innovations.

I believe the following link includes most of the aeronautic records you were talking about--if not more--plus marine records:

Packard Motor Car Information - Packard PT Boat Engine [Packard Forums - General]

Oh, and by the way, here is Packard International's list of "Packard Firsts" (Also posted by permission).

This should really get you going:

Below are but a few of the Packard Motor Car Firsts that occurred on Mr. Macauely’s “watch”. (The ones I could remember at the writing of this presentation. Later you will see the aviation records.)

All quotes from:

"Alvan Macauley

The Right Man-The Right Place-The Right Time"

Presentation For The Nomination of Alvan Macauley To

The Automotive Hall Of Fame

Contributors to this Presentation:

Packards International Motor Car Club’s Archives

Literature Collection of Mr. Frederick R. Mauck

Literature Collection of Dr. Robert Malstrom

Mrs. Estelle Macauley Ritter- Granddaughter of Alvan Macauley

A Memorial Biography-Alvan Macauley for the Macauley family

Mr. and Mrs. Gerald Vinarcik

Packards International Motor Car Club

302 French Street Santa Ana, California 92701

Phone Number: 714 633-3572

Material Prepared by Frederick R. Mauck

Submitted for: Packards International Motor Car Club by: Frederick R. Mauck Member Board of Directors Packards International Motor Car Club

SOME PACKARD FIRSTS

First American twelve cylinder engine (1915)

First aluminum pistoned automobile engine (1915)

First company to offer bumpers as standard equipment. (1924)

First hypoid differential (1925)

First hydraulic shock absorbers (1926)

First backup lights (1927)

First pressurized cooling system (1933)

First oil temperature regulator (1933)

First full flow oil filter (1933)

First self-cleaning full flow oil filter (1934)

First to locate hand brake on left of driver (1915)

First to use steering wheel instead of tiller handle.

First power hydraulic brakes (1936)

First aluminum crankcase.

First automobile air conditioning (1939)

First sealed beam headlights (1939)

First padded dash (1939)

First pleated upholstery (1939)

First automatic windows (1940)

First all steel station wagon (1948)

First thermostatic control of water circulation in a motorcar.

First to hook up the accelerator pedal and hand throttle.

First to patent automobile wheels interchangeable at hub.

First to offer ribbed jacket water-cooled cylinders.

First to obtain patent on radiator with top and bottom reservoirs with tubes.

First central automatic chassis lubricator system.

First in America to use “trunnion block” which added to driving safety.

First “ride control” - a mechanism for controlling shock absorber activity.

First package compartment in instrument panel.

First sun visors.

First constant action vacuum (pump aided) windshield wipers.

First to use lateral stabilizer.

First to use built-in under-fender cooling tunnels.

First electrically controlled overdrive.

First automatic radiator shutters as standard equipment.

First to include front and rear bumpers as standard.

First to use balloon tires as standard.

Phillips screw.

Edited by 55PackardGuy (see edit history)
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Guest Silverghost

My 1926 USA-Built Springfield Silver Ghost

has hydraulic shocks front and rear and also a single white Hall back-up light connected to a switch on the gearbox !

This back-up light set-up was adoptd by USA Springfield R~R many years before 1926 !

The hydraulic shocks front and rear were new for 1926 on Springfield R~R .

So~~~

Numbers 8 & 9 can be stricken from this Packard Firsts list !

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I forgot marine? Maybe you forgot to read the second to last line of my last post. Maybe you think the PT 109 was a space ship?

So, maybe somewhere in that single rambling paragraph you mentioned the PT. (109, nice touch). If you'd clicked on the link I posted, you'd have seen a lot more.

Packard, as most luxury car manufacturers, had very conservative customers, and it would not be expected that they would be in the foerfront of engineering.

PACKARD WAS NOT AT THE FOREFRONT OF AUTOMOBILE ENGINEERING. YOU HEARD IT HERE FIRST, FOLKS!

Again and again you begged for other firsts

I did what? I'm not begging for anything. You just didn't seem to get the idea that this is an automotive forum. Hang the moon on that.

WHy are you so defensive? What are you so wound up about?

I think I'm only hearing real defensiveness from one quarter here. And what happened to your worshipful reference to Packards International after you saw their list?

This is a hobbyist site, and a forum that looks for people with more than a passing interest in a particular marque.

I think the posts with accompanying photos and examples are fine. Yours included. The problem with lists such as the many compiled over the years by Packard people, is that they simply become targets, rather than starting points for some serious discussion. THATS why I ask about research into innovations that have some real backing. Generally, we're talking about mass produced automobiles, generally in the U.S., that first featured components that were adopted by the industry as a whole, and proved their worth over many years.

For instance, you might look into the Packard power steering setup, and how practical it was compared to its competition in 1954, and how its basic design was emulated throughout the industry in short order.

But, I guess that would be claiming that Packard hung the moon. Or that PT-109 was the only PT boat worth mentioing.;)

Edited by 55PackardGuy
typos (see edit history)
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Thus, a Packard engine was the first engine to create a Presidential career.

Well, Dave, I finally found your reference to PT-109 in that earlier post.:confused: I'm kind of sorry I did. This statement is kind of over the top, to say the least. Crediting Packard for a presidential victory?? I'll stick with the engineering achievements.

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Guest Silverghost

"Packard won the battle of Britain" ???

Packard had NO ENGINES involved at all in this early WW II

Air Battle !

NONE !

DAVE~~~

ACTUALLY~~~

The Rolls~Royce Merlin V12 engine won that great air battle~~~

Packard wasn't there at all !

Packard came in on the air war much later building high production copies of the Famous Rolls~Royce Merlin Engine in the USA under a licence agreement with Rolls~Royce .

It was R~R who also designed the later Merlins that Packard built much later in the war !

It is true that Packard built many more Merlin engines in total than R~R later in the conflict !

But they were all Rolls~Royce designs.

Herrman Goering is was quoted as saying Germany has lost the air war when he heard the sound of the Merlin engine !

Rolls~Royce is still building high quality jet aircraft engines today?

In fact it is the third largest jet engine builder today~~~

IS PACKARD ?

What happened to Packard's aircraft engine business after the war ?

Or for that matter their auto business?

There is no doubt that packard built fine autos up to the WW II period.

Packard helped the war effort by building all sorts of engines~~~

BUT~~~

Some Packard folks today give more credit to Packard for many so-called automotive firsts than is really due !

Dave~~~

Next you will be telling everyone that Packard put Apollo 11 on the moon in 1969 because it used some Packard wire !

Edited by Silverghost (see edit history)
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Guest bkazmer

Rolls-Royce designed the Merlin, true. The original version had performance issues. Packard built the vast majority of the engines, which incorporated the improvements made by both companies.

The story I heard was that the RR production was, besides in range of bombers, slow and "crafted." Ford said the engine was too complicated for mass production. Packard agreed to make it if they could modify the design. Others here doubtless have more info than I.

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  • 1 month later...

Rolls~Royce is still building high quality jet aircraft engines today?

In fact it is the third largest jet engine builder today~~~

IS PACKARD ?

What happened to Packard's aircraft engine business after the war ?

Or for that matter their auto business?

There is no doubt that packard built fine autos up to the WW II period.

Packard helped the war effort by building all sorts of engines~~~

BUT~~~

Some Packard folks today give more credit to Packard for many so-called automotive firsts than is really due !

Silverghost,

Some interesting points. Your allegiance to Rolls-Royce is evident in your monicker, but the later comment by bklazmer is accurate, too. As you note, Packard built many more of the "Merlin" type engine during the war, and one reason was because they standardized and reduced the number of parts, which not only made them more reliable, but made it possible for them to be serviced in the far-flung areas where they were used. That alone is a huge contribution. They also added many engineering changes that made the engines better performers.

As for your comment that Packard "built fine autos up to the WWII period," I think you're leaving out the many fine postwar autos built under extremely trying conditions. (Conditions due in large part to Packard contributing to the war effort far beyond what could be expected of an independent manufacturer. Virtually all their automotive tooling and manufacturing equipment was stored outside during the war years!)

Regarding jet engines, Packard was selected to produce the military's J-46 jet airplane engine. Following Packard's completion of the manufacturing facility, former GM head Charles Wilson (who had become Defense Secretary Charles Wilson) finagled a "narrow-based procurement policy" for the military and canceled Packard's contracts to build marine engines and the J-47 jet engine. Guess which company picked up the "narrowly based" contract.

So somebody thought Packard could build a pretty good jet engine BEFORE Rolls did.

Admittedly, Packard's demise came from other circumstances as well, but this setback was an early sounding of the death knell.

Just thought this was worth noting, although off-topic.

Edited by 55PackardGuy
edited for typos (see edit history)
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Some Packard folks today give more credit to Packard for many so-called automotive firsts than is really due !

Silverghost,

Yes, that might be true. All I'm looking for on this thread is to make sure Packard does get credit when it is due.

For instance:

"Power steering . . . was all Packard's, and it was a good system. GM's Saginaw was early in the field and had capured a degree of public fancy, but it had two serious drawbacks: a preload of some seven pounds which the driver had to overcome to put it into operation, and a linkage exposed to all the force of the power unit. The preload was designed to retain "road feel," but wasn't the most admirable idea GM ever had. Dubbed "you pull first" by the automotive press, the Saginaw had a habit of taking over at inopportune moments, and under road conditions such as glare ice had been known to send vehicles off the road The exposure of the linkage to the power unit was a flaw shared with Chrysler, which was advertising its power steering as "full time"; the slightest nudge could turn the wheel full lock with the car at a standstill. Until Packard's power steering unit came along, systems of the day were mainly bolt-on operations. Saginaw's unit, for example, was affixed to the steering column, as was Studebaker's shortlived mechanical assist. Thus, a 90-pound woman twisting the steering wheel on television commercials was doing as much damage to the linkage as a 300-pound linebacker wrenching the same wheel if the car was not moving. Packard's answer was to put the power linkage down on the frame, and have it act directly on the steering geometry. This arrangement eventually became a standard."

From "Packard, a History of the Motor Car and the Company," Copyright 1978 Automobile Quarterly, Inc. (pp 567-568). Emphasis added.

Thus, not the FIRST automobile power steering, but the first PRACTICAL power steering, which became the STANDARD OF THE INDUSTRY.

But I guess that somehow doesn't carry enough weight to be considered an engineering first. Hm. So let's just call it a triumph, maybe. Or at least a pretty good job? :rolleyes:

Edited by 55PackardGuy
edited for typos (see edit history)
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