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Guest imported_MrEarl

GAS, so just how much are you paying

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Dave@Moon: "Ranchero really meant it?" Of course I mean it. If you do not like the price of fuel then the smart thing to do is to drive a Prius, I guess. Or maybe ride a motorcycle in the summer (as I do)? Or how about one of those cute Vespas they sell in downtown Denver? Or, if you live in a big city you could ride the bus or tram or whatever serves your neighborhood. A consumer does not need to use V-8 Buicks. I like them & I certainly don't care what the price of fuel is when I go to the pump. Dave@Moon, I think you are silly to be such an enviro and consumer geek when the cost of the fuel has not increased as much as inflation and when the enviro concerns have all been addressed and diminished over the years. Though they look similar in profile, I would much prefer to drive my full sized Roadmaster Estate Wagon than your 5/8 scale Prius. I've got safety, good fuel mileage, fine performance, cheap insurance, great comfort and a bargain priced car. You spent $29K for outstanding fuel mileage, unproven (Toyota has a recall on the Prius) technology, no performance, no safety, unknown after warranty availability of complicated electronic parts, unknown after warranty repair cost and an even uglier car than my Roadmaster. I got a car and you got a weenie-mobile. I am willing to pay for fuel for a man's V-8; you are not. How does that Prius go up hills in Cincinnati? Very truly yours - Ranchero

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Don't worry, Ranchero.

Between 1) the high costs to buy it not being offset by the 'economy' of the thing, 2)reports of high insurance costs, 3)a little-known disclaimer in the owner's manual that could allow Toy to void the warranty and 4)the stalling problem that is being investigated by the feds, she'll be back driving a Buick.

<span style="font-weight: bold">Bloomberg Reports on Stalling Problem:</span>

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=10000101&sid=a_VMu.uJAcLI

<span style="font-weight: bold">Results of edmunds.com findings stating hybrids are bad for the wallet:</span>

http://www.cnn.com/2005/AUTOS/06/01/hybrid/index.html?section=cnn_latest

<span style="font-weight: bold">Owners finding high costs for repairs and not charging the battery leads to "neglegence not covered by warranty."</span>

http://www.consumeraffairs.com/automotive/toyota_prius_battery.html

<span style="font-weight: bold">Owners complaining of Toyota Prius high insurance costs:</span>

http://www.consumeraffairs.com/automotive/toyota_prius_insurance.html

Yeah, I know...I'm 'only' getting 26-29 MPG with my Ultra, but hey, it doesn't stall at 65 MPH! Woo Hoo! My biggest problem with the car since buying it Saturday? Keeping my wife from taking it away from me for "a week or so."

Joe

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"Weenie-mobile"? "A man's V-8"? "Enviro and consumer geek"? You want people to take you seriously with attitudes like <span style="font-style: italic">that</span>?

Believe whatever lies you want (and there isn't one perception in your last post that comes close to reality), it won't matter. Your world is about to get a lot harder to live in. I feel sorry for you.

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Guest imported_MrEarl

OK kids, don't make me have to come back there... smirk.gifgrin.gif

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I just get tired of the GM and American car bashing, sprinkled with "we're all doomed--the gas runs out next week, month or year" thinking.

Add to that the constant cramming down our throats of "listen to me--Toyota is going to save the world" in a Buick forum, and other uninformed, wrong, illogical or agenda-motivated comments must be challenged.

I get just as upset about this subject as I do in other forums when a guy claims GM products are junk because he bought a 1981 truck that gave him problems, so 24 years later, all GM products must still be junk. The logic and facts just do not support the ridiculous claim.

If someone were giving bad advice about rebuilding a nailhead, the list of responses would be long, detailed and loud. Yet, when political statements are made filled with emotionally charged adjetives, I say "not here."

She has a right to say what she wants, and I have a right to correct error. Or, as Jack Nicolson said in the movie, 'As Good As It Gets,' "go sell crazy someplace else--we're all stocked up here."

98% truth is still a lie.

Joe

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As loathe as I am to give Joe what he wants and reply to his little character assasination game, I'm afraid I have to. He's apparently unsophisticated enough to believe his own lies about me, and there seem to be others as well (it's not hard to spot his fan club). Besides that he's taken it upon himself to hold up his character as emblamatic of the BCA <span style="font-style: italic">and</span> the current GM car line. Automotive enthusiasts get stereotyped as narrow-minded goobers enough, and I don't want my club tarred further with this image.

<span style="font-style: italic">I've</span> bashed GM/American cars? Let's see:

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> The last 10 years have been an almost unbroken series of good news on GM's reliability front. The new Chevy Colorado actually topped <span style="font-style: italic">Consumer Reports</span> incidence of repair record for small trucks in 2004, besting Toyota which hasn't been done in 35 years! That's probably the first time a brand new GM model topped it's class in that survey in 40 years or more. This is especially encouraging as it is <span style="font-style: italic">not</span> a high line model like the LeSabre and Caprice were. <span style="font-style: italic">Finally</span> GM isn't punishing it's entry level customers with inferior quality! trophy.gif </div></div>

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> Now that all the "homers" are about to pull out their soap boxes, hear this! <span style="font-style: italic">CR</span>'s survey results for GM vehicles have improved markedly in the past 10 years, <span style="font-style: italic">dramatically</span> in the past 5! GM is now (according to <span style="font-style: italic">CR</span>) once again the most reliable American car by far, [color:\\"red\\"]and more reliable on average than about 1/2 the asian cars. Even better, it's the <span style="font-style: italic">new</span> models now that are bouying GM's results more than the old ones (a <span style="font-weight: bold">major</span> sore point for GM in the past!). </div></div>

Yeah, <span style="font-style: italic">I</span> bash GM. speechless-smiley-014.gif

...and the guy with the bad 1981 Chevy Suburban was Charles2, not me.

"<span style="font-style: italic">Toyota is going to save the world"</span>? No. "Toyota thinking" might save GM? Well, lets see...

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> Especially given the major improvements in GM (particularly Buick) quality recently, if they were to produce a 50 mpg Century station wagon (essentially a Prius) I'd have jumped on it. Being ahead of the curve is what it takes to have 3-4 month waiting lists for your cars when over 100K are being produced just for the U.S. Toyota makes Toyota money by thinking ahead! </div></div>

And by the way, on that subject it was <span style="font-weight: bold">Joe</span> that wrote:

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> Don't worry; everything will be fixed when either

a. GM goes into bankruptcy and fires a BUNCH of layers of middle management that kills creativity now, or

b. Toyota or someone like them BUYS GM while in bankruptcy court. Of course, when you come out of bankruptcy, most contracts are null and void, so bye-bye UAW gravy train.......

</div></div>

And finally, as far as<span style="font-style: italic">"...and other uninformed, wrong, illogical or agenda-motivated comments must be challenged."</span>, I'll put this as simply and directly as I can. Every statement I've made has been backed up by the best scientific reference material available on the subject. I don't like the conclusions re. oil futures any more than Joe does, but I can understand them as they've been presented in evidential form and I am preparing to live with the consequences. The fact that someone isn't intelligent/perceptive/sophisticated/educated/or sober enough to understand the material themselves will not change the outcome, no matter the form or intensity of their attack on it. Continuing to pursue the attack ("challenge" speechless-smiley-034.gif) in the face of real/irrefutable evidence reflects poorly <span style="font-style: italic">only</span> upon the attacker.

Of course the first clue might have been the constant attack on my sexuality. That's <span style="font-style: italic">really</span> appropriate here.

I'm not sure how someone like this can stay on the forum. I've referained from personal attacks completely thus far, and have even worded this post as delicately as possible. Unlike Joe, I do not want to be perceived as having personal vendettas against other members or posters here. That's why I've been ignorring his posts for months now. I hope to lead by example, but there comes a time when things need to be stated directly in order to maintain clarity.

I've got to get to bed now. I'm meeting my "other" car club at 6:30 AM to go to a show in Louisville tomorrow. I have no doubt as long as Joe is allowed to post he will continue his personal harangue against me. Whether it is ignorred or refuted, it remains <span style="font-weight: bold">his</span> problem.

...and I do feel sorry for him.

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Guest imported_MrEarl

Guys,

I was just trying in a light hearted way to cool things down between the two of you. There had been other threads containing the same rhetoric but I had hoped to limit this one to what I had initialy posted and that was

So just how much are you paying for gas and what's the most you will pay and what effect is it having on your lifestyle and what changes do you plan to make if it stays this way. How high will it GO?

Not meaning to sound smart alecky (sp) here but why not start your own thread. Call it "Who's to fault for the price of gas" or something like that. Just a thought...

Cool ?

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I agree.....I love talking about Buicks with people who enjoy them...

Lets do a lot more of that!

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ok. I paid $1.96 at one of our local Super Wal-Marts today. That was with the shopping card.

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I paid the equivalent of $5.65 yesterday at one of the cheaper stations near me. Just so you know Mr Earl, if petrol cost $10 a gallon and my Buick did 2 miles to the the gallon, I'll still be driving it grin.gifgrin.gifgrin.gif

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I paid $2.30.9 for a gallon of premium the other day at the Diamond Shamrock on Main Street ( hwy 287) here in Longmont, Colorado. Prices are pretty high and respond very quickly to change of season here since we have rules to add alcohol. We also have a .49 cent tax on each gallon, which isn't bad really. The lowest this year was about $1.98.89. There are cheaper stations in town but I worry about contaminants or problems from the local You Pump It stations. Its probably silly. At times the local BP station is cheap but that's becoming rarer.

I agree with Invicta592 (and everyone else), mpgs are important in budgeting but will not keep me from driving my car. Its selfish, I realise but I do not see what will change by my giving up one of the few joys left to me now. To be as responsive as I can, I work to keep my engine and fuel system working at its best so I am not poluting any more than necessary, or wasting fuel. And I am will to bet my old car will be on the road 10 years from now should I live that long! Hell even if not, my son will drive it

(barring drunk drivers, idiots or other acts of god). <img src="http://www.aaca.org/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

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Guest imported_MrEarl

Luckily it was 1.95 when I filled up Friday before heading to Nashville cause it got higher the farther north we got. Paid 2.06 before heading home and danged if when we passed the station where I filled up Friday it too was back up to 2.05.

Regarding contaminants, we are seeing a lot of that lately. What gives? are we paying more for an inferior product. My wifes Volvo won't hardly run on the local Quick Spot gas. And Shell has been having high sulphur content lately. Are we litterally getting to the bottom of some big barrel and suckin up the dreggs or are they "cuttin" the good stuff with who knows what.

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I don't know, but I cannot take chances with my Eldorado. My little Chevy runs fine on whatever rock gut regular I can buy so that's all to the better. But I do not want to foul up my 425 cid now that its running so well!

We knew the prices were going above $1.00 in 1973. My first car ran on regular but I prefered the middle grade for the 350. Over the last 30 years, paying $2.30 is not all that bad especially since I use Premium. When you get right down to it, its not that great an increase from the long term perspective.

Just how much it will rise in the next 10 years is a whole different game.

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I paid $1.91 this morning for reg. By the time I ate lunch every station in town was set to $2.09/gal., except the Sunoco stations which oddly went up to only $2.07/gal. (This is one of the smallest collusion increases we've ever had.)

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> Regarding contaminants, we are seeing a lot of that lately. What gives? are we paying more for an inferior product. </div></div>

When supplies and production begin to shrink, quality and consistency are bound to decline. Watch for much worse in a few years. frown.gif

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If I don't like the price, I shouldn't buy gas. OK, lets run with that "thought". Screw the oil companies! I'll buy no more gas. By myself, they won't give a crap about the loss of my dollar. Now if everyone stopped buying gas (will never happen, son't even think about posting the spam here) maybe they would notice...but it ain't happening.

So I've stopped buying gas. Might as well sell the car now. No gas, no need for a car. I'll need the $ because my severance pay only lasts soo long. See, I can't just walk to work now, the transportation is necessary. No gas, no car, no work. I'm now using the profits from my car to pay the bills. This doesn't last long...you see, I enjoy the good life and need the cash flow to keep it up.

OK, no gas, no car, house goes up for sale....I'm now jobless and homeless. Now I've got plenty of time to walk to places where people CAN afford to drive their cars, and I'll beg for $ for my next meal.

Hrmmm, maybe that's how that other bum got there. I'll stop on the way home today and ask him if he stopped purchasing gas.

Get real, and realize you just can't stop buying gas. They have a legal monopoly over us....AND I THINK IT SUCKS!!!

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To get you some perspective, in Finland we pay 1.15 EUR per liter, which makes 1.38 USD/liter, and that equals $5.22 per gallon! And 75% of the price is taxes to the government.

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Looking online I found that the average individual Finnish total tax burden is 46.5% of income. The U.S. average is 29.1% of income, plus an average additional 10.1% for state and local taxes, the total amounting to 39.2% overall.

Therefore the taxes spent in Finland on gas are likely offset to a degree (there's still a 7% difference) by other taxes that are lower. Also those taxes buy you things that many of us can only dream of, like doctors in many cases. The 7% more in taxes you spend beats the 12%+ we spend in health insurance and uninsured health costs, <span style="font-style: italic">and that's only if we're in <span style="font-weight: bold">average</span> health!</span> Sickness causes more bankruptcies here than any other single cause.

Finland's looking better all the time! cool.gif

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<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Finland's looking better all the time! cool.gif </div></div>

Dave, there are a few of us who'd love to help you pack!

If you think health care is expensive now, wait until you see what it costs when it's free. <span style="font-style: italic">~P.J. O'Rourke </span>

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I have heard all of this before, living in Austria and England off and on for years. Taxes are what they are, and they get you something for the trouble. Our system works, but has shown definite cracks especially in the health care area where our ability to handle the influx of immigrants weakens. Overall, I would like to know what you think of the increase in gas prices since 1973, whether taking in inflation, or not. From one persons perspective (mine) all things being equal, I do not see the rise in price as being all that extreme. Everything is getting more costly. Is it because petrolium costs are high? Or are they following a different trend?

We budget (or we all should) within our means to afford what we have. Yes I spend $50 to fill the tank now. I spent the same fulling my Dodge van in 1977. Sure it had a 36 gallon tank but the point is the difference is still impressive but not out of sight. As has been said here, lets look at this with a little perspective. I remember paying .73 per gallon in 1973 for my 1969 Oldsmobile Cutlass. I don't recall if it was regular or premium. I remember the first time the price went over a $2.00 a gallon only a few years ago...or was it 10 years ago. Anyway it seems like it went up and down alot but never oover $2.00 until more recently. Now its climbing a little faster than before but unless it surges to $3.00 this year, it won't seem to me to be all that extreme given the world and how economies are doing these days.

What do you think? Anyone? Is it my imagination or are we engineering this problem for all it is worth? How much of the doomsayer's prophecies ever come true?

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Randall,

You've asked an excellent question about whether we've engineered this problem. I said something a long time ago that still applies, and I'll say it again here (even though I know Dave will blow a gasket--again):

1. We have never run out of any natural resource in the history of the world. Never. None.

2. We have never conserved our way out of a need for a resource. Never. None.

Now, as for the oil supply, and all the "sky is falling" predictions, here's what the Saudis are saying:

Top Saudi Says Kingdom Has Plenty of Oil

WASHINGTON - Saudi Arabia has plenty of oil ? more than the world is likely to need ? along with an increasing ability to refine crude oil into gasoline and other products before selling it overseas, a top Saudi official says.

"The world is more likely to run out of uses for oil than Saudi Arabia is going to run out of oil," Adel al-Jubeir, top foreign policy adviser for Saudi Arabia's de facto ruler Crown Prince Abdullah, said Wednesday.

In a wide-ranging interview with The Associated Press, Al-Jubeir said relations between his nation and the Bush administration were strong but "the environment in which the relationship operates ... still leaves a lot to be desired."

Al-Jubeir dismissed speculation, including in a recent book, that the country was hiding the true picture of its oil reserves and that it may have far less than publicly assumed. He said Saudi Arabia has proven reserves of 261 billion barrels, and with the arrival of newer technology could extract an additional 100 billion to 200 billion barrels.

"We will be producing oil for a very long time," al-Jubeir said.

The problem for both the Saudis and the United States is what happens after the oil is pumped.

"If we send more oil to the United States and you can't refine it, it's not going to become gasoline," al-Jubeir said. The United States has not built a refinery since the 1970s, and other markets have similarly outmoded or limited refining capacity. Environmental concerns and local opposition make it unlikely new U.S. refineries can be built quickly, even with the current gas price crunch.

Here's the link to the story so you can go read it for yourself:

http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/ap/20050609/ap_on_re_mi_ea/saudi_oil_interview_4

By the way, after he said this, I've not been able to find anyone CREDIBLE to say that he is wrong. So, according to the people that have oil to sell to us, the problem is the fact that we haven't built any new refineries since the 1970's. Have you noticed that there are more people and cars than there were in the '70's? Kinda lets you know where the problem is.

I'll sit back and wait for Davie to spout more environmentalist sayings now.

Joe

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Guest imported_MrEarl

Try $3.99 a gal. And that's regular.

Well actually I passed all the stations on my way home from work since I had lucked up and filled up this morning at 2.59 after catching just a few words of an interview on CNN this morning about the gas main pumps being shut down on the Contintental Pipeline just above New Orleans.I knew that's the company that covers this area so I told my wife and son to both fill up on the way to work and school and guess what, my son "Didn't have time"!!!. Now, what stations do still have gas are gouging folks for from 3.11 to 3.99. So guess who will be riding the school bus in the morning and probably for quite some time. Governor Perdue is urging people not to panic and there will be gas deliveries within 72 hours. I've got a fellin though that we may not see two dollar gas again for at least a couple of months...if then

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Lamar, paid 2.71 outside Syracuse New York on Sunday. Today the prices jumped from .98 cents/litre to anywhere from 1.04 to 1.35 in Ottawa. I believe thats closing in on 4.00/gal +/- U.S. It's still cheaper down below the 49th.

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It hit $3.09 here in Cincinnati today. Up 50 cents overnight.

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