GAS, so just how much are you paying

[Guest imported_MrEarl]

and what's the most you will pay and what effect is it having on your lifestyle and what changes do you plan to make if it stays this way. How high will it GO?

It's currently higher in Georgia relative to the rest of the country than it has ever been I believe. I paid $2.15 but that's the cheapest I could find. Up and down the road it's $2.21-2.23. When it hits 2.30 I'm thumbing a ride with my wife to and from work which won't be very convenient but...

I'm already holding off on any longdistance trips however will not give up on Batavia unless it hits 3.00.

What are they projecting it to reach this early summer?

[Guest my3buicks]

Here's what gets me, an associate is talking about trading in his Expedition on something smaller and more fuel efficiant( we are talking Explorer here, not what would call fuel efficient). It's 2 years old and he would not have nomally traded for 2 or 3 more years. Now how much gas could you buy at let's say 3 bucks a gallon for what he will lose trading this vehicle off now? I have heard others saying similar.

[JohnD1956]

$2.399 for regular grade in Albany NY as of today. It's up from yesterday even though market reports indicate Sweet Brent Crude dropped today. That's the thing. If the market indicates the price per barrel went up, the price at the pump goes up. But you never seem to see the price at the pump go down when the market reports a drop in price per barrel

I guess I'll keep paying what ever the price becomes. My wife can't drop me off at work so I don't have that option. However, as soon as I fix my Riv, ( tomorrow, hopefully), I'm parking the 4 wh drive with the forsale sign. If I get my price it's down the road. If not???

And I'm going to Batavia no matter the cost...And I'm driving my classics no matter the cost too. Life is short enough. I intend to enjoy what's left of mine to the max...

JD

[Budd]

The wifes MDX takes premium, so we're paying $2.77 a gallon for it, and around $2.4x something for regular which my Tahoe takes. Fortunately, my commute is a whopping 1.5 miles, so I really can't complain. Fools that we are, we happen to own two SUV's. I saw a report somewhere, or heard it on NPR, that the price point that would cause people to change their plans/habits (ie. cancel vacations and such) would be $4.00 a gallon. Up until that point, supply is still outstripping demand... so on we march with these prices.

edit: I should add that the prices I pay are not typical of the nation, as CA has higher costs due to further refining and additive costs as dictated by the Air Resource board. Average cost of living is higher, average wages are higher, etc... but as a percentage of income, it probably all works out similar as elsewhere in the nation.

Budd

[Dave@Moon]

This week regular gas here in Cincinnati started the week at $2.17 (cheapest), we had a collusion increase to $2.34 on Tuesday, and now (Friday) it's back down to $2.21 (cheapest). On Monday or Tuesday it'll be increased up over $2.40.

[imported_48Rdmstr68Skylrk]

we are paying 2.19 to 2.25 here in Pittsburgh. My problem is I have a 38 mile drive to work so I pur roughly 80 miles a day on the car. I have to fill up 2 times a week, more if I do any driving other than to work. Makes me long for my 86 Sommerset with the 2.5 liter 4 cyclinder with 5 speed manual tranny (rare car in its own right) that got 30 mpg city and 36 mpg highway. Should never have traded it away. Hey Buick, are you listening? How about building someting like that again???

[Guest my3buicks]

Tom, if all else fails and gas gets to ugly, I can rent you the spare room and you could go home and visit Nancy on the weekends.

[imported_48Rdmstr68Skylrk]

Keith - I just might have to take you up on that. I've been meaning to stop by on my way home to say hi and maybe have a beer. Almost drove my 68 skylark to work today but was running late.

[Guest my3buicks]

anytime Tom, I had the 69 out yesterday

[Guest Shaffer]

I just filled up my Acura today. It requires premium and it was $2.28 on special. On Friday, they offer high grade @ mid-grade price.

I put $25.00 in my 73' Grand Ville on Wednesday. Only got about 11 gallons, but it filled it up, because I do not let it get much below 1/2 tank.

Prices are forecasted to go even higher !!!!

[imported_buick5563]

Mr. Earl,

I am heading up the road a ways to go to a car show in my Wildcat today, so I filled up with premium at $2.35 yesterday. Ouch. I'm planning on driving to Batavia in my Special which gets better gas mileage and doesn't take premium, but the budget is pretty much shot from when I first started planning this trip. It's still over three thousand miles round trip. She sure is going to look good getting there. Plus, after all of the work I'm doing, I'm definitely still going.

Later,

Mike

[Guest invicta592]

Errr... sit down guys, and take a deep breath. Here in the little ol UK it currently works out at.....

$5.48 per US gallon (which is about 20% smaller than a UK one. Imperial gallon is approx $6.85) at current exchange rate.

[DugsSin]

$2.02 for Mobil regular here in NJ. That still works out to a fair chuck of change when I fill up the SuperDuty which holds 35 gallons.

I don't lose a minutes sleep over the things I can't control. Just got back from a 1800 mile vacation at 15 miles/gallon and enjoyed every mile of it.

[55PackardGuy]

Amen on the not losing sleep. What're you going to do about it besides thinking of how to squeeze a few more MPG out of the ol' rig. Best thing is to adjust driving habits. I'm a lead-foot by nature, but have actually been having some fun seeing how to go easy. One rule of thumb: the more you're using your brakes around town, the more waste. The energy goes out the brake pads in the form of heat--one of the reasons that "regenerative braking" is such a good idea, although how it works in practice may be another matter.

I've been surprised at how reasonable used econoboxes are selling for, too. I've been following AutoTrader, and Low-mileage 2002 and 2003 Civics, for example, go for around $13,000. Might not be a bad hedge against the future. Hybrids of this age are a few thousand more. I do a lot of around-town driving, and hauling a couple of tons of metal around to go to work and the grocery store is kind of ridiculous, no matter how light my foot is.

The price around here has gone up and down, from a high of about $2.35 to a low of about $2.15 for regular. The big test will be Memorial Day weekend, when traditionally they jack the price up for travelers. It usually stays at about that level or higher the rest of the summer. This year may be more dramatic.

[Guest]

$2.49 a gallon, 17.5 = $49.00 bucks.

[Bill Stoneberg]

Just finished a round trip to central Texas in my 1988 Buick Electra Station Wagon. 425 miles round trip and I put just a little over 21 gallons in the tank at 2.19.

Not bad for a underpowered old car with the corporate Oldsmobile Engine.

[56 Buickboy]

Please can I buy some of your CHEAP fuel. Here in NZ we are currently paying $1.29 per litre which if my maths is correct works out at $5.80 per gallon. Maybe that is why there aren't as many Buicks on the road over. Although while our dollar is strong a few more are being imported which is great.

[58tailfins]

Here in Denmark the price is also aound 6,00$ pr gallon for 95 octan

[Reatta Man]

New Zeland and Denmark,

Thanks for your input. You REALLY put this gas situation in perspective.

I just wish there was something we or you could do to lower the price you have to pay. Good luck with your Buicks!

Joe

[Guest invicta592]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> I just wish there was something we or you could do to lower the price you have to pay. </div></div>

Well maybe there is. Anyone selling a car for export, please fill the gas tank to the brim before handing it over

[Idle Swede]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> Well maybe there is. Anyone selling a car for export, please fill the gas tank to the brim before handing it over </div></div>

Good idea, but unfortunately it won't work. Shipping companys refuse to accept vehicles with more than 1/4 tank. They will drain any access fuel & charge YOU for it. Years ago we always shipped them with full tanks.

[Guest invicta592]

Not so much an idea as a "tongue in cheek" stab at humour.

[Guest Dans 77 Limited]

Im paying 2.19 in Pittsburgh & 2.21 in Washington Pa. My 97 Dodge Ram has already fell victim to fuel prices......I hope its being taken care of at its new home. When you consider the following changes

200 less income a month than last year

27 mile drive to work as opposed to the 3/4 mile I drove at this time last year

And the absolute flat out GREED of those in the oil business

I felt it was neccesary to trade and when you consider Im now driving a Chevy Impala and think it gets phenominal milage, compared to the truck.Thats amazing.

What I have been tongue in cheek considering may soon become reality for others if things continue unchanged , Hijacking tankers ... not for the money but for the cargo. Things go unchanged Ill bet the bottom dollar I planned on spending for an eyedropper of gas that someone will do this in the next 3 months. Sad.

Dan

[pphil]

filled up my 95 vandura today 219.9 gallon

only took $53.70

scott 1964 wildcat

425 2-4bbls 4-speed

[brad54]

Lots of hidden taxes in a gallon of gas these days, too--it all ads up.

But I agree on not losing sleep over it--especially when there isn't anything you can do.

Now, who has paid $1.39 for a 20 oz. bottle of soda at the gas station in the last week? Or better yet, how about buying a bottle of water, which is FREE at any tap!

I won't even get into cigarettes or McDonald's lunches.

-Brad

[Guest imported_MrEarl]

Drove by the Quick Spot yesterday on the way home and gas was 2.18. I remembered they always change prices on Tuesday night so I turned around, went back and filled up.

Drove by this afternoon on the way home and guess what 2.friggin 11

I can't win ......

[ranchero]

For that scientist Dave@Moon who uses the word "collusion" to describe pricing of gasoline near his home - try, just one time, to understand that basic principle of economics called supply and demand. There is no "collusion". The Dummycrats tried that issue the last time the price of gasoline rose for awhile. There never has been "collusion"; there never will be. The price of gasoline is dependent on the free market - plus any local taxation our various governments decide we deserve.

There has been more demand than supply - that simple. However, the price of Saudi crude has dropped over $5 per barrel in the last week; relief is really on the way! That accounting for lowered demand will show up at your pumps in Cincinnati pretty soon - unless I can figure out a way to collude with my fellow investors to keep your local price up before the Exxon Valdez reaches port.

In Wyoming, where we produce a lot of energy, our price for unleaded runs between $2.119 to $2.219 and has dropped a bit during the first part of this week.

Waiting for "earth day" to stalk a Prius - Ranchero -

[Dave@Moon]

I love it when petty personal animosity takes precedence over established facts and history.

Apparently it's normal for some people to see the "free market" manipulate the price of gas by 25 cents/gal. or more every week. Here in the mid-west the "free market" faxes a set price and a set time of increase to all corporate owned gas stations 24 hours in advance. The independent stations (who know the routine well), immediately match the price with glee. <span style="font-style: italic">(It's reliably rumored that those who don't match the price suddenly have a problem getting gas to sell!)</span> Usually within an hour or two every gas station in town is selling for exactly the same price, 20-30 cents higher than it just was.

The next day capitalism takes over again as price competition returns, apparently because although there is an actual sales volume increase on "collusion day" sales then tail off rapidly. About 4-7 days later a base price is reestablished until the "free market" faxes again.

The <span style="font-weight: bold">only</span> gas chain that doesn't follow along are the <span style="font-style: italic">Flying J</span> truck stops, which are jammed like Wal-Marts on Christmas Eve during and after "collusion day", even though most are terribly remote.

This has been well documented in the print and broadcast media here many times. There are several links in the threads linked below for the particulars. It's a measure of how well entrenched this scheme is that with the doubling of the gas prices it's still going on. It's illegal as hell, but people here are just too happy watching the red sun rise to care enough to do anything.

But then many of them know everything already. It's a common problem.

---------

That I know of, this phenomenon has taken over gas pricing to varying levels in most of OH, KY, IN, and MI. I'm told in Cleveland the price swings are about 1/2 of what they are here, and when I was in Flint MI and Kokomo IN for BCA Nationals shows I saw 25 cent increases in both towns on Friday mornings (typical for Cincinnati as well).

If anyone's seriously interested in this problem here are two threads where it was discussed. In the earlier thread the press had yet to report on the fax machine use, and I guessed it was coordinated by email. By the second half of that thread the facts as they are were known.

Gas Price Collusion

Gas Price Collusion--A new hope!

[Dave@Moon]

By the way, a good way to tell if there's going to be a collusion increase is to see a price drop after several days of constant pricing. (I think it's because the managers want to fill their cars and warn their friends beforehand.) Most gas stations dropped here about 2 or 3 cents today, averaging now about $2.13/gal. It's a solid bet that between 10 AM and 12 Noon tomorrow that will change.

[Reatta Man]

With all the head banging disagreements Dave@Moon and I have done in other forums, this time she is right on many points.

Ranchero also had some good points, but Ranchero, this time I think you threw way too much sand in with your answers and it tends to make the gears of open discussion run much rougher than they should.

First, if a chain of corporate-owned stations want to change their prices, that is not collusion. They OWN the stations. If they think the market will bear it, they can mark their prices up to $6 a gallon tomorrow. I've often wondered why corporate stations still manage to get so much business when their prices are 10, 12 or 15 cents a gallon higher than a station a half a block away. Maybe the people that buy at these higher stations have a corporate charge card and don't care about the price? Makes you wonder.

As for the supply vs. demand concept, I really think common sense dictates this process is more of emotion, supply, demand and greed than a true economics model.

The price is manipulated by fear (emotion) on Wall Street based upon news, rumors, heresay or inuendo in the oil business. One piece of bad news and the price jumps several percentage points in one day. Why? Does anyone think we are going to run out of oil tomorrow if the price is only $25, $35 or $45 a barrel. No way! This is just plain emotionally driven decision-making by the traders and the people they supply at various refineries.

The greed comes in when a 5% price increase leads to a 9% increase at the pump--often within minutes or hours thanks to stations being linked by satellite networks and computers. No matter what you call it, GREED is GREED.

Then you have the lowly peasants (us) on the end of the cycle. This seems to be the only place where supply vs. demand really works. If I need it (demand) I will get it as cheap as I can (supply). At that point, the only choice I have is to buy it for $2.15 at Exxon or $2.06 at Wal-Mart. At that point, all those 'miracle' additives in a name brand gas that promise to keep my fuel injectors clean don't seem to matter so much.

When anyone figures out how to regulate or control fear and greed, we will see lower gas prices and more common sense. Until then, good luck.

Joe

[Dave@Moon]

First of all, here as in most places, nearly all gas stations are corporately owned. The "Independent" stations are mainly limited these days to no-name convenience stores selling either no-name or name brand gasoline. There are <span style="font-style: italic">very</span> few repair garages around that still sell gas. Wal-Mart, Meijier, 7-Eleven, etc. are corporately owned retail outlets just as much as any BP "station".

Second, it <span style="font-weight: bold">is</span> collusion because <span style="font-style: italic">every</span> corporate outlet is faxed the exact same prices and the exact same time regardless of which corporation owns the place. You can actually sit a watch "competing" stations (i.e. Shell and BP stations, which tend to locate accross from each other frequently here) send their guys out simultaneously to raise the price 28 cents, <span style="font-style: italic">almost every week!</span> Today's increase hasn't come through yet, but it'll be here within hours.

Recently Kroger grocery stores started up a gas business here, and for the first 2-3 months they didn't play ball with everyone else and the collusion increases were only lasting a day or so. Eventually somebody got to them. Now they're in lock-step with everyone else and it again takes about a week for the price to come down.

Where's <span style="font-style: italic">Sheetz</span> when you need them?

[55PackardGuy]

Reatta,

Interesting post. And especially the point about how emotion fuels so much of the so-called "rational" supply and demand economics model. Economic "turndowns" which used to be called "recessions" and before that "depressions" were originally termed "PANICS." Each permutation of the term was designed to make it a little less emotionally loaded and thus less likely to set off completely irrational behavior. (Yes, "Depression" was once a watered-down euphemism--until the "great" one came along). So, at some level, the feeling of "panic" and its attendant irrational acts such as dumping stock when it's down and hoarding gas when it's up is still the rule of the day.

Your point that on the extreme "micro" level, supply and demand have more validity than on the "macro" level is also well-presented.

It's interesting that here in bad old Blue Minnesota, there are regulations that PREVENT selling gasoline at the pumps for "below cost." In this way, "predatory pricing" is avoided in which individual stations with deep pockets who can afford selling at a loss for a short term (or those with attached convenience stores that help pay the bills) can't try to out-wait the smaller suppliers that don't have these advantages. In the long run, I don't think they put a lot of people out of business, but it's still a nasty anti-competitive practice. Still, it's interesting that a system is in place to prevent artificially LOW prices. You wouldn't think this would be the case if price-gouging were the problem. The state KNOWS what the cost of wholesale gas to service stations is--it's no big secret.

One thing that hasn't been talked about much is "margin." In other words, how much are stations making per gallon sold? When they get that fax, they know how much gas is going to cost them to replace, and they need to figure in a LITTLE profit, right? Regardless of whether their supplier is making some kind of "obscene" profit.

As I mentioned in another post, you also have to figure in the fact that ALL pricing is based on predictions about REPLACEMENT cost of current supplies, not what the current supplies cost. That's why an increase (or even a predicted increase) in crude oil price causes immediate hikes in gas prices. This builds in a cushion, and naturally a fairly generous one. It also actually mediates what the cost increase would be if commodity prices (crude) were to spike extremely rapidly to very high levels as they did in the '70s. By the same token, a softening in crude prices usually produces the SAME immediate reduction in pump prices as it has over the past week around here: paid $2.07 last night after a small slide in crude prices.

Just some thoughts while trying to avoid the "head-banging" (or chest-thumping) I find this approach results in less internal damage--as well as external irritation.

BTW one of the funniest little pricing ploys I've seen around here is posting cigarette prices, which are lower than $2.00, right up on the sign with the Regular pump prices. Talk about bait and switch!

[Reatta Man]

Packard,

Thanks for the kind words.

Dave@moon,

I have to disagree with your use of the word "collusion." Merriam-Webster's online dictionary defines collusion as "secret agreement or cooperation especially for an illegal or deceitful purpose." www.m-w.com

As I said before, if you OWN a store and the inventory in the store, you can set your own prices on YOUR merchandise, whether it is gasoline or potato chips. The buying public has the choice of paying $1.49 for a bag of chips at a convenience store or getting the same bag somewhere else for 79 cents. Pricing it higher isn't illegal or deceitful.

If you have evidence that stations or corporate owners are doing something illegal according to local, county, state or federal law, by all means, call the local district attorney's office.

Collusion is one of those emotionally-charged words that often gets people's attention when they see it or hear it on TV or radio, but I know of nothing illegal or deceitful the station owners are doing. I don't like what they are often doing, but I can't prove it to be illegal or deceitful.

What would be illegal or deceitful? A pump that claims to disperse a gallon of gas, but only pumps out 9/10 of a gallon is one example. A pump or computer that appears to charge your credit car $25 for gas, but actually charges your card $27.50 is another. This is why you must approve every surcharge applied to an ATM card before a machine dispenses the money.

Another would be stations in Florida raising prices from $2 per gallon to $4.50 immediately after a hurricane or tornado. This actually IS illegal in most southern Gulf Coast states, and station owners have been prosecuted in the past for this offense. Ironically, in many of those cases, the corporate offices did NOT approve the gouge prices; greedy managers did it on their own.

Joe

[imported_buick5563]

Mr. Earl, et. al.

My wife is in Northern California this week on business and she heard on the radio this morning that a California station finally hit the $3 mark. $3.05 was what she heard. Now I realize this is hearsay, but it would sure make me ALTER my habits. Perhaps not change them altogether. But then again, I have a company credit card.

Mike

[Bill Stoneberg]

Mike,

My family lives there and it HAS changed 2 out of 3 families habits. One brother drives a Prius (1st generation, used) and my parents dont drive much if they dont have to. Of course with my youngest brother, all I can say is, if you can afford to drive a Ferrari, you can afford the gas.

BTW, I paid 1.93 to fill up at walmart today.

[Guest GRANNYS 70 SKYLARK]

Guys, use this to help find the cheapest area gas: www.gasbuddy.com

[Dave@Moon]

I've got an appointment to go look at a Prius (maybe drive one) on Monday when a load is delivered to the local dealer. Here in Ohio the wait is only 2-6 weeks depending on content with no extra markup.

I don't really drive enough to make buying one worthwhile financially (9-10K miles/yr. at most, 5-6K on the truck), and the hit I'd take on trading in my '03 (19-20 mpg) truck would be hell. <span style="font-style: italic">(If I'd have only waited 2 more months to buy the truck! )</span> But if things get worse, like they're supposed to, I'm afraid I might be stuck with this truck for life. Plus it's just the right thing to do.

(I tried to rent a Prius for an upcoming family trip and found out that there isn't a single rental Prius in the entire U.S. Enterprise used to have a few, but they're being called in. The last will be gone from their fleet in a few weeks and won't be replaced. In L.A. a local firm can rent hybrid Ford Escapes, but only on a very limited basis. )

At any rate so far on my street two SUV's (an Avalanche and a Yukon) have disappeared, replaced with new sub-compacts! Both families needed an SUV like they needed an ack-ack gun.

[old-tank]

$1.88 and this was at midnight and there were lines out to the street. I slipped in and was accused of cutting in line...now I feel bad; but not that bad

Willie

(Mobile gas at I-10 and Ackermann Rd in San Antonio)

[Reatta Man]

Old Tank,

Did you mean $1.88 or $1.98? I saw it at $1.99 two exits up at the Converse exit, I-10 and FM 1516.

I used to buy at that Mobil station all the time; they seemed to be the cheapest in Bexar county. Then they seemed to get greedy. If they are the cheapest again, I'll go back to shopping there.

Soooo sorry to make all of you around Cincinnati feel bad for still paying over $2 per gallon. San Antonio has some of the cheapest cost of living prices in the country.

Yay!

[old-tank]

Reatta Man

To be more specific it was 187.9 cents per gallon....

Willie