Myth Buster Destroy Plymouth Fury

[Jim Bollman]

Put me on the side of inclusive not exclusive. As a collector of Crosleys since they were just used cars I have taken my share of abuse over the years from "TRUE" collectors.

If to many want to be exclusive AACA will die when they do.

Jim...

[DizzyDale]

Dear Jim,The only thing i collect is pop cans,its a nickel ya know.Did you EVER hear anybody say anything good about a 39 Zephyr coupe other than its pretty or its pretty ugly and that V-12 YIKESSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS.How about my 62 Corvette with that real TRICK 49 Chevy front suspension.Guess what i am tryin to say is there is good and bad about everything.ITS all about what you like,my wifes Passat has 4 doors and its a great car and i hope i NEVER see it on the showfield at Hershey.diz

[1937hd45]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Put me on the side of inclusive not exclusive. As a collector of Crosleys since they were just used cars I have taken my share of abuse over the years from "TRUE" collectors.

If to many want to be exclusive AACA will die when they do.

Jim... </div></div>

Jim, At least the Crosley has a claim to fame as the first US production car with four wheel disk brakes. Made a great race car motor doner too.

[Dave@Moon]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> Dear Dave,MAYBE....The director of the show and i have the same taste in late sixtys Mopars. </div></div>

...and MAYBE the point to be made here is how much that should NOT matter in the larger scheme of things among supposed antique car afficionados.

...and MAYBE just because I'm avoiding the topic of the financial/aesthetic value of the car in question it doesn't mean I do not share similar perspectives with Diz <span style="font-style: italic">or</span> anyone else.

...and MAYBE it would not be a very good idea to try to goad enthusiasts of one or another type of car into trying to defend their right to be here.

...and <span style="font-weight: bold">MAYBE</span> (addressed to everyone here including myself) this shouldn't be about <span style="font-style: italic">YOU</span>!

Either we are a <span style="font-weight: bold">community</span> of car enthusiasts or we are a group of like-minded egocentrics, and <span style="font-style: italic">it isn't</span> that fine of a line between!

[Twitch]

All the hoop-la about special cars is relative in the fact of ones perception from a point in time. I grew up in the 50's and I can tell you NO ONE was restoring classsic cars other than museums and perhaps a tiny handful of loyalists. What was a classic car then in 1955? A 1930 being 25 years old or a 1920 being 35 years old. There obviously were some old cars that were squirreled away and those are the nice ones we see today.

High priced, low volume cars like Dusenbergs and Pierce-Arrows always had a following and always will. A 1930 Ford, Chevy, Dodge etc. was just an OLD CAR in 1955. You didn't see any pre-war cars on the streets at all! People wanted new, powerful, comfortable cars not creaky old relics that screamed 'old and poor.'

In the early 1960s when I was getting of driving age you could buy 1940 Fords for $175. I saw a 1940 Packard limo for $375. A 2dr 1950 Hudson Hornet was $300. There was a place where I grew up in St. Louis that is still there- Charlies Cars that dealt in nothing but unusual and exotic. Cords and Auburns in very original condition were like $2500! While Ferraris, Astons, Maseratis commanded prices above $5-10,000 next to them were a 1941 Packard Ambulance of $800 and a 1939 Lincoln Zephyr for $1200.

The sad fact is that almost no one wanted the average old vehicles and even the more rare were not being highly sought after. I can tell you that because some of these cars languished there for many months.

The is a law of buying as it were. Interesing 2 dr. cars sold 1st. Convertibles were not all that quickly purchased as now. 4 dr. cars were the least sought after. And when hardtops came along they and convertibles rose to the top and any sedan 2 or 4 door, was bumped down. All we need to do is check our buying guides to see this.

Now lets fast forward to 2005. Look at the price guide on a #3 1968 Plymouth Fury III convertible- $5000. A #4 drops to $2100! A #3 4 dr sedan is just $1500 with a #4 not worth your while at $700. If it was a GTX with a 425HP 426 hemi a #3 at $25,000 is at least sought after. Look at what a bargain a #3 68 GTO with full options at $10 grand is. Why in hell would you want to throw away 20% of that on a nothing Plymouth?

So, yes those 1930 Fords are finally worth something after 75 years! In 2043 when that 68 Plymouth is 75 years old it might be sought after and more valuable too. In the mean time all the cars of its ilk have to reside somewhere and receive minimal care so they don't deteriorate to crap. Who's going to volunteer to be caretaker?

This just isn't equal to slicing up a nicely restored Model A for Monster Garage. Tell me, when will a 68 Fury be on par with a primo Model A? What year in the future?

In the 50 and 60s the only people that were preserving the older cars in any form were hot rodders. There were tons of 30-40s cars saved from being junked by them. Most were slightly modified from original with a scant few being radically altered. Most could have easily been returned to 100% stock if anyone even had any interest in them! A great deal of the original cars floating around to day were probably saved from the junkyard by a rodder. Current owners had almost no problem making a few minor mods back to stock original.

So where were all the angry collectors in the 50-60s fighting to preserve 1930-40s carsin 100% stock form? There weren't any. We can't project today's values back in time or use formulas like "in 1980 the 1955 cars were seen to be collectable therefore in 2005 the 1980 ones will be too. Aha!"

I've collected most car magazines from around 1950-1975. Looking in mid 60s "for sale" sections has lots of original old cars going for next to nothing when compared to a new car's price. I picked blindly a 1962 Hot Rod magazine out of a box and find a 36 Ford coupe $650, 37 Packard coupe $85!, 37 Ford coupe $350, 41 Chevy coupe $250. "1939 Delahaye stored til '47, special 3 Solex carb, 4 seat convertible, mechanically renewed, $2500 invested- best offer over $1250." And for non-100% original there were several modified cars in the $2-4000 range.

So we are 50 years away from 1955 and even now certain cars have have higher values than others. Some are sought after and franky others are not. Right this second on Ebay is a 68 Fury convertible they want nearly $17,000 for when #1 pricing is only $9100. Insane! Stupid! For that money you could by an 65 Chev SS convertible that will appreciate far greater than a Fury.

If we go back to every TV or cinema film moment when an old car was destroyed that was not special at all, relative to the time the film was made, we could hole up like Howard Huges for weeks and watch them while wringing our hands. For what? Let's be sensible about collecting instead of acting like a bunch of old washer women. Like Matt said is anyone looking for their all time fav car a 68 Fury sedan?

[R W Burgess]

Well Dave, this thread is getting heated. The whole point is that a TV show that matters to very few people is agitating those that will do nothing about it. I'd like to amend my earlier post. I didn't mean to say that 4 door cars shouldn't be restored. I was saying, in the case of limited means to restore cars, why not restore the best. It all depends on whether you put a sentimental value on a certain vehicle or not. And, true, we don't want to drive anybody away, regardless of what kind of car they like. Restoration shops and others with the means to restore vehicles are disappearing as I write this, so we better take care of the ones that got us here. Wayne

[1937hd45]

Great point Wayne. If you plan on spending the time and money restore what will give you the best return on your investment. The cost to restore a 10HP Stanley Steamer vs. a 20HP Stanley Steamer is just about dead even, resale differance is 50-70 Grand. Same can be said about any two door sedan vs. four door sedan, do the math, if it is a money pit stop and enjoy it for what it is, then move on to something better.

[Matt Harwood]

As the apparent "holder of the match" on this thread, I'd like to defend my position:

1) I never said anything to the effect of <span style="font-style: italic">nobody should like these cars</span>. I simply said that preserving every "old" car is foolishness if nobody wants them. I'm certainly not dictating which cars are worthy of being collected. Again, all I'm saying is that <span style="font-style: italic">they can't all be saved.</span> If you're going to save a car, save one you love. But don't save a car hoping that someday, somebody will want it or because you owe it to history. You'll have more cars on your lawn than blades of grass.

2) I'm not judging anybody by the cars they like. I'm glad you have something that makes you happy, and I encourage you to enjoy it in whatever manner you like. If you want to cut up your 1932 Packard and install a 350 Chevy, then by all means, <span style="font-style: italic">do it.</span> <span style="font-weight: bold">Enjoy your car.</span>

3) Everyone is welcome to bring whatever car they want. I welcome them to the club and if we meet, I'll look forward to making a new friend who loves cars as much as I do. But I don't have to <span style="font-style: italic">love</span> every old car to like the people who own and drive them.

Enjoy your cars. Do whatever you like with them. But I'm not going to worry about every "old" car that is lost to history because nobody wants it. Someday, sure, someone might want it. And I guarantee, no matter what you want, someone will have one for sale. It isn't like these cars will suddenly disappear from the face of the Earth entirely.

<span style="font-weight: bold">Dave,</span> I understand what your point is: the hobby's future is in jeopardy when new members and new interests can't be accommodated. I'm all for that. But this particular discussion is about one crappy car getting demolished, and all the crocodile tears being shed on its behalf. If someone wanted that car, I'm guessing it wouldn't have ended up on that show. The car had a value, the show's producers paid the market value, and did what they wanted with it. Would it have been different if some 16-year-old kid bought it and wrapped it around a tree? Would you shed a tear then (another "classic" car lost forever)?

Buy a car that makes you happy and do what you want with it. Don't worry about what you owe the hobby or history or anyone else. And likewise, whatever car you have, you should not expect me to be rabidly enthusiastic about it, either. As someone said, everyone has different tastes.

I wanted a 1941 Buick Century sedanette. A lot of cars passed in front of my radar before I bought my car. I could have been "in the hobby" a lot sooner (and I'd have a running, driving car instead of a pile of parts right now) for less money if I'd pulled the trigger on something I didn't want but bought because I had the money burning a hole in my pocket. Should I have felt "grateful" to simply have any old heap? Heck, buying a "hobby" car you don't love sounds plain crazy to me.

I mean, if you're a kid with $1000 in your pocket and you're looking for a cool car, are you going to buy the first old 4-door sedan that comes into view, or are you going to take your time and find something special you can love? My first car was a 1976 Eldorado convertible I restored by using seven summers' worth of job money starting when I was 14 years old. I could have bought a lot of Mustang or Camaro or Civic for the money I poured into the Eldorado, but I didn't want that stuff, I wanted the Eldo specifically because it wasn't "garden variety." I spent a small fortune restoring it, and sold it to go racing. I showed it, drove it in parades, and did all the "collector" things with it. That damned car made me feel special. The 1981 Pontiac Catalina sedan I drove to school every day did not, though I'm sure someone, somewhere, has a perfect Catalina that's his pride and joy.

I think we're selling these hypothetical "new" members way short by not believeing that they think exactly like we do--you're assuming that they'll just "settle" for anything old, regardless of how ordinary it may be. I think being a hobbyist means holding out for whatever makes you smile widest when you drive it. I don't care what it is, as long as it makes you happy.

Apparently, 1968 Plymouth Furies aren't as good at making people happy as other cars, and their value shows it. Conversely, I'm certain there are more than a few 1968 Furies around with absolutely delighted owners. Good on them!

PS: The whole reason I'm in the hobby again after a decade on the race track is because of a certain stunning blue 1934 Packard V12 club sedan, not a 1974 Pontiac Ventura...

[Matt Harwood]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Well, I guess some people think that it is up to them to define beauty for everyone else.

Personally, financial considerations aside, I'll take my 67 Olds 98 convertible over most anything else. Those full-sized 60s convertibles are among my favorite cars. And I don't care if you like them, and I do feel sad whenever one is needlessly destroyed.

Incidentally, I'm 31 and make a surprising salary- I could buy a much more valuable car if I wanted. And if people like me drive you away, then fine. The difference is that I don't look down my nose at you.

-Dave </div></div>

By the way, a '67 Olds convertible is a <span style="font-weight: bold"><span style="font-style: italic">loooong</span></span> way from a '68 Plymouth Fury 2-door sedan. Please don't feel singled out because we're talking about '60s cars. I don't think the <span style="font-style: italic">age</span> of the car is the point of our discussion here.

[1937hd45]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">As the apparent "holder of the match" on this thread, I'd like to defend my position:

</div></div>

Ok, now that I got your two cans of gasoline what should we do? Seriously, I read your last post and again agree with you. The '41 Sedanette is a good looking car, I'm in a fastback phase myself, took two years to find a 49-52 Chevy Fleetline I wanted. It won't see any AACA showfield, I have a Sawzall and a plan.

[Guest]

I thought, my Bo & Luke Duke post more interesting that this one.

Poor Enios, Daisy should have made a man out of him!

Further more, Roscoe, never wanted his Vehicle scuffed....

And I never seen Cledious ever work on a car. Heck, he didn't have any dirt under his finger nails.

[DizzyDale]

Dear Tommy,I AGREE,still thinkin about those legs.diz

[R W Burgess]

Do I smell a rodder here or do you just need a medal roof insert for an early Ford, Bob? <img src="http://www.aaca.org/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> Wayne

[1937hd45]

I've got most of the glass removed now.