1913 Mercer Raceabout 35J

[phoenix]

Hello all. I have a 1913 Mercer Raceabout 35J, which has been in the family for about 35 years. I am interested in finding any information about these vehicles, as the information I currently have is very limited. I know it is either a 1912 or 1913 model because it is a 3 speed, and the 4 speeds were used in the 1914 and 1915 model. I believe that when they were raced, the guards and top spot light were removed, which is what this one is missing, and it also has a faint number painted on the radiator. Hopefully someone know's about these, and any information or suggestions is appreciated!

Cheers

[Steve Moskowitz]

Wow, you are a lucky guy to have one of these! They are great cars and I wish I owned one. There is a wealth of information available on Mercers and I would suggest you contact our Library (on this website) and the HCCA Library for information and documentation on your car.

[Bill Boudway]

Hi,

You may want to contact The Mercer Associates. I's a somewhat informal group dedicated to Mercer automobiles.

The contact for this is our friend Stan Smith, 111 Linden Hall Road, Boalsburg, PA, 16827. Tel: (817) 466-6087, Fax: (817) 466-7008. E-mail: sds@RBA.com

Good luck,

Bill Boudway

[Guest stude8]

You will probably want to speak with a Mr Fred Hoch of Magnolia, NJ. He reproduces parts and services Mercers of all eras. He drives a T Head Mercer around Hershey every year. Stude8

[Peter J.Heizmann]

phoenix...Welcome to the AACA Forum.

As Steve mentioned, click on the AACA Library in the left column. Our Library retains an enormous amount of historical data awaiting your query. Or...

A.A.C.A. Library & Research Center

Work: 717-534-2082

E-Mail: kmiller@aacalibrary.org

P.O. Box 417

501 W. Governor Road

Hershey, PA 17033

Regards,

Peter J. <img src="http://www.aaca.org/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

[1913Moline]

I have a 58 page PDF file of articles from my collection of Motor Age, Motor, Horseless Age convering the period up to about mid 1915 for Mercer. I did this research for another fellow and made a scan of it as I thought someone else would be interested.

Send me an email and we can discuss. I cant email it as it is 160 megabytes- scanned at high resolution.

Greg

[1937hd45]

phoenx, You mentioned that your Mercer is missing the fenders and spotlight, so the attached photo is not your car, correct? Just wonder if your T head was the gray one that spent time in Maine.

[phoenix]

Thanks all, I really didn't expect to get any replies. When I mention the word Mercer, most people looked stumped, but I guess being in Australia doesn't help! Thanks for the leads, I will be diving into them soon!

1937hd45, your assumption is right, that is not the actual car. I have found some old photo's of it and scanned them in, but they're pretty poor quality. The car is actually stored away, but I'll be seeing it again soon with the digital camera.

[phoenix]

Here's another low quality photo!

[1937hd45]

Thanks for posting the photos, looks like it has seen quite a few modifications over the years. Look forward to the new digital photos.

[phoenix]

Modifications? Can you tell that it's had some? I know some parts are missing, but I thought the rest was reasonably original! Just curious

[1937hd45]

Well, you did admit that the photos were poor, but I know the cowl section is not like a factory original. The gas tank should be round and have two filler caps that were unique to the Mercer. The second photo is at such an odd angle that I thought the car was converted to center steering, but now se that it is right hand drive. The spark quandrant in the center of the wheel is one modification that I can see. Are there rear axle locator bars that run parallel with the rear springs? Look forward to the digital photos.

[21raceabout]

Hello - Your car does not have a T-head Raceabout cowl. You will notice in the first picture you posted (not your car) that the front of the cowl meets the angles of the hood (bonnet) exactly and then flares out to the angled dashboard. Your car has a flat board at the back of the hood. I suspect that the car was either a 4 passenger Touring or a Runabout (2 seater with doors) that has been cut-down in an attempt to look like Raceabout. A number of Mercers have been modified like this through the years - there are only two Runabouts and a few T-head era touring cars left intact. What is the wheelbase of your car? What is the serial number on the dash plaque?

Mr. Stan Smith and Mr. Fred Hoch (Schaeffer & Long, 210 Davis Rd., Magnolia NJ 08049 856-784-4044) are both fine gentlemen. I'm sure Stan would like to hear from you and Fred can give technical support and is a source for T-head parts. I have a collection of T-head literature that I would be willing to copy for you - email me if your are interested.

[Stan Smith]

As mentioned by other members, I may be of some help. By the Serial number we'll be able to give you the year. 1911's S/N's ran from 300 to 588, 1912's S/N's were 589 to 920 or so, 1913 S/N's were 991 thru 1590 and 1914 S/N's are 1591 thru 2098. The engine number would be nice to know as well, but there's always the chance it had been replaced thus we don't use that for year identity. Mercer Associates, for which I keep the Roster of all existing Mercers will be glad to help you with any questions on your car.

STAN

[phoenix]

Thanks for all of that! It's interesting to hear the differences, as I have no idea! Maybe it has been modified. I've just spoken to my dad and we've organised to get it on the hoist and have a good look over!

Thanks again!

[phoenix]

I've just been talking to my dad again, who has just looked at the car for me, and we've been talking about the differences, and now that you mention it, there are quite a few differences. Maybe it's an imitation of a Raceabout? What is a Runabout? Where the Stutz's similar enough to imitate a Mercer? Because the more I compare (from photos), the less original it looks! Maybe I've been wasting everyones time? Sorry if I have!

One thing for sure is, there is a metal badge on the radiator that says "Mercer" and also a smaller badge at the bottom of the radiator that says "Trenton New Jersey, USA". It's probably a mercer radiator on a different car? I'll get down there and photograph it I think!

[1937hd45]

You are not wasting anyones time, just get some good clear photos of the major components, hubcaps, rear axle, front axle, engine and transmission. Also need a close up photo of the brake & clutch pedals and steering column.

[Guest stude8]

I agree with 1937HD that you have a very interesting car and we would all enjoy a better photo to look at, there is no waste of time when talking about a Mercer. I have attached a photo of what I believe is a 1913 Mercer Non-runabout model just for comparison. This car was at a recent Harry Miller race car event at Milwaukee, WI. I can't confirm owner or year for sure. Stude8

[phoenix]

Thanks again. I'll get the photos!

[SixtySix]

I know of a yellow racer in Milwaukee. About 5 years ago, I was attending a WAAR event and there was a 1913 racer going around the track. Holding on and going at all out speeds was something that fueled my passion to get a teen car. Eventually I will be there. Just have to sell the convertible and well, the search will be on.

[1937hd45]

stude8, Thanks for posting the Mercer Runabout photo. If there are only two of these in existance is this the white one that was in Vermont @15 years ago with a new paint job, or the other?

[Guest stude8]

Since you can't have too many Mercer photos to look at, here is a link to the Lederer 1913 on the track at Milwaukee Harry Miller Meet a few years ago, Herb enjoys giving thrilling rides to unsuspecting patrons. As he lets the clutch out and the T head takes hold he tells them "No doors, no windows & nothing to hold onto" thats when they find out its true and terror sets in.

The attached photo is one of my favorite Mercer shots at Elgin, IL in 1912 of the airborn Mercer. Stude8

http://www.aaca.org/photopost/showgallery.php?cat=998&stype=1&si=mercer

[Dave@Moon]

Wow! How in blazes did they get <span style="font-style: italic">that</span> shot using 1912 technology?

[Guest stude8]

If you notice the camera is aimed at the rise of a hill and I bet he wasted a lot of plates until he got one at just the right moment, in bright daylight and a small aperature they could get good images like this one. Close ups in lower light conditions always had distortion. It could be the camera (Curtain shutter) was rotated 90 degrees to get the curtain action minimized.

By the way that image is from Library of Congress web site that has many more shots from Elgin of Mercers on the road race course.

How about this one from 1911? Stude8

[SixtySix]

This is the one I was in at the Milwaukee Mile. The Wisconsin Antique Auto Racing meet was going on as we were at hte camp ground on the other side of the race track [near the Petit Ice rink]

Those unnsuspecting rides were the greatest as he would bank into the turns and then we would see the Dusenburg speedster fly right by us.

Very cool to find that photo.

~matt

[DizzyDale]

Dear Stude8,What a great photo.Haulin a-- almost 100 years ago.THANKS for sharin.diz

[R W Burgess]

Sixty Six, I can't get that photo site up. Is there something wrong with the address? Wayne

[SixtySix]

http://www.aaca.org/photopost/data/519/913313mercerxxx.jpg?2521

just click on the link.

[Guest De Soto Frank]

"Curtain Shutter" ? in 1913 ?

I thought most if not all cameras of that era had leaf or blade shutters...

(Although a curtain or focal plane shutter would explain the "forward lean" of most brass-era race cars in action...especially with slow film speeds)...

At any rate, it sure is a great action shot !

In January, I went train spotting, chasing a Steamtown special "ice pond" excursion. Nothing beats live steam in the winter!

I thought it would be neat to take along my 1909 #2 Folding Brownie and take some "antique pictures"...I used the slowest speed B&W film I could find - some Ilford ASA-50, and had my camera set-up on a tripod.

I did get a really nice shot of the locomotive as it breached the Nay Aug Tunnel in Scranton, highballing up the grade at about 40 mph, with huge stack plume.

Considering that the 3 choices of shutter speed were "I", "B", and "T", and the lens apertures were "1", "2", or "3", the picture was quite crisp.

The other shots with the same camera were a little under-exposed, and there were issues with some light leaks around the back of the camera, but it was a fun experiment.

Shooting moving objects as close to head-on as possible also helps.

It was/is possible to take some really amazing photos with very simple equipment !

[Guest stude8]

Who is to say it had any shutter at all? I have seen old plate cameras where the photographer removed a lens cap for 10 seconds and then slipped it back over the lens by hand.

Your Kodak is modern by comparison to William Henry Jackson processing 16" glass plate emulsion negatives in the back of a covered horse drawn wagon when he photographed the Denver, South Park RR canyon scenes.

You ought to rehab the light seals on that Kodak so you can be ready for the bright sun this summer.

I attached an old Kodak shot of Canadian National 6218 running East out of Chicago in 1967 into Lake Effect Snow near Hobart, IN on GTW main, It is special to me because I had a cab ride from Valparaiso to Chicago (55 miles) that day.

Stude8

[Guest stude8]

SixtySix,

The link to the 13 Mercer image you posted is actually a frame from the video program we produced of the Harry A. Miller Meets in 1998 & 99. It is available in DVD at this time, has lots of the cars in motion but interviews with Duke Nalon, Emil Andre and Chris Economaki are priceless, the stories they tell were funny and sad about early indy car racing days. Email me at "johns@lowrey.com" for a flyer with details. Stude8

[1913Moline]

The attachment is a scan from MOTOR magazine March 1913. I could get pretty excited about a couple laps on the track with this one...

If your Mercer raced at Pomona, Elgin or other famous spot, I probably have a picture of it from Motor Age, The Automobile or Motor World. There are lots of Mercer pics of Eddie Pullen, Oldfield, Niekrent Ruxtell and others in magazines.

[1937hd45]

Kisselman, THANK YOU for that Mercer attachment! Just wonder why the flywheel has what look like teeth for a selfstarter, was that a Mercer option? It has been over 25 years since I was inside a 1911 Mercer engine, seeing those connecting rods brought back memories of mechining new bearing shells.Thanks again.

[Guest stude8]

Kisselman,

Plan on the Miller Meet this July at Milwaukee, WI and I'll introduce you to Herb Lederer for a lap on the track in that very 1913 car. Stude8

[1913Moline]

Hope this doesnt double post- for some reason first try didnt work.

Stude8, this is another picture from Elgin Races in 1911. This guy Barnes came in second to Hughes in the Kane County Trophy race. From Motor Age August 31, 1911. I wish there wasnt a 100k file limit as I need to shrink these down too much.

Lots of write ups on Elgin in Automobile and Motor Age. (I have a good share of Ralph Dunwoodies early auto magazine collection in my basement...)

Greg

[R W Burgess]

Greg, That picture was the perfect size. It filled my screen. I just told my wife that all of these early drivers looked half nuts. Probably a requirement to ride around in one of them, wouldn't you think? <img src="http://www.aaca.org/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> Wayne

[1937hd45]

The late Ed Roy said it best, "These cars were driven by men of steel."

[1913Moline]

I dont know, DePalma looks pretty civil getting ready for the 1913 Indy.

Check it out.

Greg

[1913Moline]

Spencer Wishart looks pretty good too. Another 1913 Indy photo.

If my memory serves me correct, he only lived through a few more races after that one.

Sorry, but I dont think I have a single 1968 Plymouth 4door photo in all of my books and magazines...

Greg

[1937hd45]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I dont know, DePalma looks pretty civil getting ready for the 1913 Indy.

Check it out.

Greg </div></div>

Must be the fully enclosed body that gave DePalma that look of confidence. In the 1911 and 1912 Indy 500 Spencer Wishart drove a Mercedes to 4th & 15th place finishes. The car is in Germany now under restoration. For years I had a photo of the car in my office, just before it left this counrty I got to see it and sit behind the wheel. It spent most of its life in the basement of the Crawford Museun in Ohio.