Bill Stoneberg Posted January 28, 2005 Share Posted January 28, 2005 I have heard from a couple of old time mechanics that while you are building an engine, you should fill your oil pump with Vaseline. Opinions or comments ? I am at that point where I am finishing rebuiling my oil pump. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest imported_NikeAjax Posted January 28, 2005 Share Posted January 28, 2005 You can do this, but you can also use a drill to prime your pump, which is the method I prefer. The idea is to make sure your pump has a good vacuum/suction, so you can also use bearing grease too, if you want. It won't hurt anything so don't trip on it, but make sure your pump is primed, a good drill with a long slot tip screw driver blade is what I use, then crank it up; you'll know very soon if you have a good source of oil or not.Jaybird Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest imported_PackardV8 Posted January 28, 2005 Share Posted January 28, 2005 Grease and vaselinr can plug oil galleries and/or create a long term hydraulic lock preventing critical lubrication. The grease/vaseline trick is a butcher shop mechanics way of getting the job out the door fast to collect his commision. HOWEVER, i have heard that this is actualy recommended in a Buick manual somewhere????? I doubt it. But even if Buick did recommend grease or vaseling thats not theway we do it over on the Chevrolet (GM's bread and butter) side of the tracks. The CORRECT method for priming the pump (if turning by hand wont work) is to connect a vacuum source at an external oil gallerie plug on the engine. I've used another car engine intake manifold vacuum source to do this but u have to be careful not to suck alot of oil into the sucking engine.1955 to present:Packard takes shape - Buick take notice! While Chevrolet defines the world standard. Amen and amen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JT Posted January 28, 2005 Share Posted January 28, 2005 I've used grease which seems to work well. Not all engines allow you to prime pump with a drill. My oil pump is driven directly off the cam so I primed using the starter with spark plugs removed. I was able to get an oil pressure reading on the gauge pretty quickly. If you use a good assembly lube on everything when you build engine you should be fine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JT Posted January 28, 2005 Share Posted January 28, 2005 I would ad that I did not fill the oil pump with grease but only coated the gears. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smartin Posted January 28, 2005 Share Posted January 28, 2005 The difference between using grease and using vaseline, is the fact that Vaseline will heat up and melt/mix with the oil and virtually diasppear. I've primed my oil pump with and without the help of vaseline...it works both ways. Most of the time. I wouldn't go as far as calling Vaseline a Butcher job though. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charles2 Posted January 28, 2005 Share Posted January 28, 2005 The only problem with that theory is that by the time your engine gets hot enough to liquefy the vaseline, you could have damaged the engine. I think that use of a good assembly lube and putting plenty of motor oil on the rings and pistons when installing would be far better than packing the oil pump with vaseline. I've heard of this technique from an old time mechanic who also scorned the use of torque wrenches. There is a lot of myth out there; I would follow accepted practices. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest wildcat2 Posted January 28, 2005 Share Posted January 28, 2005 This is a direct quote from the '65 Buick Chassis Service Manual (section 2-53):"5. If gear end clearance is satisfactory, remove gears and pack gear pocket <span style="font-weight: bold">full</span> of petroleum jelly. <span style="font-weight: bold">Do not use chassis lube!!!</span> 6. Re-install gears so petroleum jelly is forced into every cavity of the gear pocket and between the teeth of the gears. Place new gasket in position. <span style="font-weight: bold">NOTE: This step is very important. Unless the pump is packed with petroleum jelly, it may not prime itself when the engine is started.</span> " <span style="font-style: italic">[EDIT: Attachment added]</span> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest imported_PackardV8 Posted January 28, 2005 Share Posted January 28, 2005 Charles2 u r absolutely rite. Of course ALL and EVERY engine overhaul should be assembled with either oil or some of the special assembly oils BUT NO GREASE nor vaseline (except for a lite film on valve guides or holding keys in place and things like that).In some cases of engines that have been overhauled andhave set for long periods of time the assembly oil can drain off. ANY engine that has set for more than 1 year wheather overhauld or not should have the oil circulated thru the engine by turning the pump by hand (u do not need to use a drill motor just a speed handle or other suitable hand tool and turn it by hand) or the vacuum draw at an external oil gallery. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Old Guy Posted January 28, 2005 Share Posted January 28, 2005 Many old engines have short pickup tubes, and just running the pump will not prime them. The 400-430-455 series Buick engine, and the "nail heads" have the pick up tube mounted far enough away from the pump that it is necessary to use petroleum jelly to seal the gears enough to pull the oil up to the pump. The earlier post that quotes the manual is absolutely correct.I use Vaseline in all my pumps and it has never given me a problem ,and I alway get pressure rapidly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charles2 Posted January 28, 2005 Share Posted January 28, 2005 Wildcat2Thanks for the info. I stand corrected. I'm putting an engine together right now and think I'll reach for the jar of Vaseline. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
old-tank Posted January 28, 2005 Share Posted January 28, 2005 I've never used vaseline in a nailhead...maybe that thick red assembly lube (Perfect Circle) is doing the same thing. While on the engine stand I connect an external oil guage and spin the oil pump with a drill and watch the pressure come up in usually 3 seconds. Then I crank it with the plugs out with the starter (valve covers off). Then install and start it. I once did an old Ford L-head 6 (rings and bearings "in the truck"). There was no way to spin the oil pump with a drill and the pressure would not come up using the starter with the plugs out, so we towed it around the block with the plugs out and that worked....probably could have just started it...Last year I "monitered" a friend's rebuild of a 455 and he used Vaseline as recommended with no problems.Willie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smartin Posted January 28, 2005 Share Posted January 28, 2005 Fact of the matter is, if I ever take my oil pump apart, then I repack it with Vaseline. I will NOT try to start the engine without pre-priming first. That is the key. You will be able to feel when the oil is through the pump, because it gets very hard to turn at a high rate of speed.And really, there's not much vaseline left in the pump housing when you smash the gears in there. It all goops out!! There's maybe 2 tablespoons of the stuff in there. .....tops. And at +/- 40psi of oil pressure at cold startup, you should NOT have any problems of the vaseline getting "stuck" anywhere.I can't believe this is such a hot subject. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest imported_JPC Posted January 28, 2005 Share Posted January 28, 2005 The issue with Buick V8 after the nail heads is that the oil pump is not in the oil pan but on your timing cover, external to the engine. I always felt this was a great feature in that if you needed to service it you just took the thing off. No removing engine mounts, hoisting engine or removing oil pans for service. One draw back is that from the screen to the pump is now quite the distance compared to other blocks.Another condition is that the pump housing is aluminum and if you spin it dry with a drill you would probably grind the main pump gear right into the plate creating to much clearance for the thing to work correctly. Packing the pump with vaseline gives a big suction on that first rev that primes the pump. It is also petroleum based and does not need to be warm to dissolve, so as the oil gets there it mixes quite readily. If you assemble the oil pump first you need to be careful not to spin it to much when trying to get the distributor in, as you will lose the prime. I found it easier to put the distributor in first and then put the oil pump together, packed with vaseline and then put the oil pump cover on. There are also buick oil pump repair kits available that come with a tool steel base plate and longer screws, this is a good fix and is more durable than the aluminum plate. If you plan to race or run your engine hard I would recommend using the steel plate.Another issue with these front mounted pumps is that your oil filter is horizontal or almost and when the engine is turned off it will drain back into the oil pan, leaving the filter and pump almost empty. Take a good look at the filter you buy and make sure that you can see the rubber back flow valve through the holes on the outside rim. Even AC had taken them out of the PF24 for a while, probably to save a few pennies on their part.I've only done this three times with a buick but never had any problems with oil pressure. All three were redone between 100,000 - 125,000 mile and ran strong with over 220,000 miles on them. Buick really had a better idea here I wish these engines were still made, it was a breeze to work on the 350. I swear at chevy engineering every time I have to work on my 305. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
palbuick Posted January 29, 2005 Share Posted January 29, 2005 HI ChuckThe thing about using vaseline, which I have always used, you may not start or try to start your motor for several weeks or months, the vaseline will not melt down for quite a while. Good luckJim SChilfpalbuick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest G-K Posted January 29, 2005 Share Posted January 29, 2005 My engine builder has a oil prepressuizer that hooks to the motor before I start it for the first time. It's a tank filled with your oil that has an air regulator and you hook the air hose to it and connect it to the gauge port. Now all the oil passages will be under pressure for startup.The first 15 minutes @ 1800rpm's will make or break your cam/lifters. Good Luck.GK Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest John Chapman Posted January 29, 2005 Share Posted January 29, 2005 Ya have to wonder if the term 'petroleum jelly' had been used (as in the Buick manual) instead of Vaseline (as in 'The Baby Book' or by Burt Reynold's character, Congressman David Dilbeck in <span style="font-style: italic">Striptease</span>) if there would have been such a ruckus. By the way, petroleum jelly is completely melted by 140 degrees farenheit.Cheers,JMC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Stoneberg Posted January 29, 2005 Author Share Posted January 29, 2005 I filled it with petroleum jelly, not Vaseline as CVS only had small jars of their house brand. Sure makes the gears turn slow.I also got a weird look from the clerk as I was buying both Petroleum Jelly and Latex gloves..... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smartin Posted January 29, 2005 Share Posted January 29, 2005 <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I filled it with petroleum jelly, not Vaseline as CVS only had small jars of their house brand. Sure makes the gears turn slow.I also got a weird look from the clerk as I was buying both Petroleum Jelly and Latex gloves..... </div></div>ROFL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest John Chapman Posted January 30, 2005 Share Posted January 30, 2005 Bill,That was just because the clerk knew that those latex gloves wouldn't last long when exposed to petroleum jelly...JMC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
imported_48Rdmstr68Skylrk Posted January 30, 2005 Share Posted January 30, 2005 Bill, you are all set with the tools you need to start a proctologist office!!! When I changed out my timing chain cover on my 68 with the 350 v-8 in it, I spun the oil pump gears with a home made shaft and my drill. I got a 40 penny nail/spike which is just about 3/8" in diameter so it fit right in the drill chuck. On the other end I used my bench grinder to grind a flat spot similar to a screw driver. I didn't want to ruin a good screw driver so I created this thing instead and it worked great. I put the shaft down in the hole where the distributor goes and engaged the oil pump gears. In normal operating times, it is the oil pump that drives the distributor. Use a variable speed drill to start off slow and you can build up the rpms. The engine sat for a good couple years and this process got the oil distributed throughou the engine before I ever cranked the starter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reatta Man Posted February 1, 2005 Share Posted February 1, 2005 The deal with the Vaseline works. I've done it more than once. I've also used an old screwdriver, with the handle removed, mounted in an ordinary drill, spinning the end of the oil pump shaft in order to prime the pump. As for the vaseline, you don't leave it in the car. After the engine starts and warms up, and you let it run 20-30 minutes to break in the new cam, you change the oil while it is hot in order to remove the vaseline. Joe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eksine Posted January 20, 2019 Share Posted January 20, 2019 no need for a drill, just pull the fuse for the fuel pump and maybe ECU too and start cranking the engine. engine won't start obviously, do it only for a few seconds at a time obviously so yo don't burn out your starter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry Schramm Posted January 20, 2019 Share Posted January 20, 2019 (edited) I have used the petroleum jelly process to prime the pump more than once on Buick engines because the oil pump is on the front timing cover of the engine and as noted earlier not in the pan sitting in oil. It is correct from my memory that is the process outlined in the service manuals for vehicles that have the pump in the front timing cover. By the way, do not do this in cold weather. Edited January 21, 2019 by Larry Schramm (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Stoneberg Posted January 22, 2019 Author Share Posted January 22, 2019 On 1/20/2019 at 7:48 AM, eksine said: no need for a drill, just pull the fuse for the fuel pump and maybe ECU too and start cranking the engine. engine won't start obviously, do it only for a few seconds at a time obviously so yo don't burn out your starter Obviously talking about newer engines here.. I also like to check Oil Pressure on the stand with a drill before installing the motor. The 1 time I didn't I had to pull the motor back out as galley plug was missing and I had a Exxon Valdez sized spill in the garage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheezestaak2000 Posted March 11, 2019 Share Posted March 11, 2019 i agree that a pressurizer would be best choice, but back in the 60's used the vasoline method many time with great success. it will not clog oil passages as it breaks down in the motor oil very quickly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C Carl Posted March 11, 2019 Share Posted March 11, 2019 (edited) And certainly no need to quickly change oil to purge the P.J. out of the engine. That "little dab will do you" no harm. Some folks intentionally throw larger quantities of weirder stuff than that in their oil. - Carl Edited March 11, 2019 by C Carl Expanded the "quote" (see edit history) 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NC-car-guy Posted March 11, 2019 Share Posted March 11, 2019 Ive used a little vaseline or a little Crisco in the past..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brad Conley Posted March 12, 2019 Share Posted March 12, 2019 Vaseline is the preferred method of priming a Buick oil pump...even says so in the repair guides. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
avgwarhawk Posted March 14, 2019 Share Posted March 14, 2019 On 1/27/2005 at 8:51 PM, Bill Stoneberg said: I have heard from a couple of old time mechanics that while you are building an engine, you should fill your oil pump with Vaseline. Opinions or comments ? I am at that point where I am finishing rebuiling my oil pump. I did so after replacing a timing chain on a 73' 455. It primed the pump. I had no issues with using the Vaseline. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
avgwarhawk Posted March 14, 2019 Share Posted March 14, 2019 On 1/27/2005 at 9:54 PM, PackardV8 said: Grease and vaselinr can plug oil galleries and/or create a long term hydraulic lock preventing critical lubrication. The grease/vaseline trick is a butcher shop mechanics way of getting the job out the door fast to collect his commision. HOWEVER, i have heard that this is actualy recommended in a Buick manual somewhere????? I doubt it. But even if Buick did recommend grease or vaseling thats not theway we do it over on the Chevrolet (GM's bread and butter) side of the tracks. The CORRECT method for priming the pump (if turning by hand wont work) is to connect a vacuum source at an external oil gallerie plug on the engine. I've used another car engine intake manifold vacuum source to do this but u have to be careful not to suck alot of oil into the sucking engine. 1955 to present: Packard takes shape - Buick take notice! While Chevrolet defines the world standard. Amen and amen. I believe the packing of grease/Vaseline is in a manual somewhere. I replaced a timing chain in 73' 455. The year was 1987. No internet at that time to Google, however I got the information somewhere that the pump should be packed with grease to prime. No, the galleries were not clogged. Very little grease is used. And I mean very little goes between the two meshing gears. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
avgwarhawk Posted March 14, 2019 Share Posted March 14, 2019 On 1/28/2005 at 8:36 AM, Charles2 said: The only problem with that theory is that by the time your engine gets hot enough to liquefy the vaseline, you could have damaged the engine. I think that use of a good assembly lube and putting plenty of motor oil on the rings and pistons when installing would be far better than packing the oil pump with vaseline. I've heard of this technique from an old time mechanic who also scorned the use of torque wrenches. There is a lot of myth out there; I would follow accepted practices. Assembly lube is a must on any rebuild. Spilling some motor oils over the moving parts never hurts. The small amount of Vaseline is to help the pump prime. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
avgwarhawk Posted March 14, 2019 Share Posted March 14, 2019 On 1/22/2019 at 11:25 AM, Bill Stoneberg said: Obviously talking about newer engines here.. I also like to check Oil Pressure on the stand with a drill before installing the motor. The 1 time I didn't I had to pull the motor back out as galley plug was missing and I had a Exxon Valdez sized spill in the garage. My tidbit...after installing a timing chain on a 455 I buttoned up the entire front of the engine. Filled with oil. Turned the key and a large puddle of oil formed under the front of the engine and kept growing as it ran(about 15 seconds). I shut it down only to find I left the oil filter off.......DOH! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Stoneberg Posted March 15, 2019 Author Share Posted March 15, 2019 22 hours ago, avgwarhawk said: My tidbit...after installing a timing chain on a 455 I buttoned up the entire front of the engine. Filled with oil. Turned the key and a large puddle of oil formed under the front of the engine and kept growing as it ran(about 15 seconds). I shut it down only to find I left the oil filter off.......DOH! I did that on a customer car one time, drove it off the lift and through the dealerships shop before seeing the trail I was leaving. Took a lot of clean up and grief from the other mechanics. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
avgwarhawk Posted March 15, 2019 Share Posted March 15, 2019 (edited) 22 minutes ago, Bill Stoneberg said: I did that on a customer car one time, drove it off the lift and through the dealerships shop before seeing the trail I was leaving. Took a lot of clean up and grief from the other mechanics. I feel your pain. As a side note, a 60's Dodge wagon was pulled in on the crane. No start. Found the fuel pump was not pumping gas. I put it up on the rack and taken the line from the tank to the pump loose. I blew a bit of compressed air into the line that came from the tank to the pump . I wanted to assure no blockage as there was no gas present at all. In about 30 seconds gas came shooting out of the hard line from the tank. The gas hit my drop light that made the bulb burst. You can only imagine the flames now being fed by the tank that is gleefully dumping gas onto the floor. Said flames climbing the steady stream of gas from the line. Fortunately I was quick with fire extinguisher. No harm done to the car. I did note my coworker just stood there mesmerized by the flames. No move to help put it out. Goof.... Just one of my many stories as a tire spinner(changer), alignment tech, Technician and service manager over a 13 year period. Edited March 15, 2019 by avgwarhawk (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
60FlatTop Posted March 15, 2019 Share Posted March 15, 2019 I was doing some valve train diagnosis on this car with the valve covers off. The verticle line on the right is for the canister oil filter. What a mess. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
60FlatTop Posted March 15, 2019 Share Posted March 15, 2019 7 minutes ago, avgwarhawk said: Just one of my many stories as a tire spinner(changer) Changed a lot of tires, but that ain't how I heard the term used. Bernie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
avgwarhawk Posted March 15, 2019 Share Posted March 15, 2019 20 minutes ago, 60FlatTop said: Changed a lot of tires, but that ain't how I heard the term used. Bernie Yep, tire spinner. Just a what us tire changer guys called ourselves. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
60FlatTop Posted March 15, 2019 Share Posted March 15, 2019 4 hours ago, avgwarhawk said: us tire changer guys called ourselves. That got me laughing more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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