Judging

[Kevin W. Fisher]

I have been a life member of AACA for 14 years and very much would like to become a judge. I just joined the Forum this morning,and I would like to know where I may obtain a copy of the current AACA judges handbook along with yhe master points deduction sheet? Also,what guidelines do you have to know what class to show your vehicle in? There are so many classes!I do understand about schooling and registering.Thank you very much.

[Peter J.Heizmann]

Kevin...Welcome to the AACA Forum.

You can obtain a copy of "Official Judging Rules and Guidelines" free by attending the next Judging School at a National Meet. Or, you can obtain one (I believe for $4.50 per copy) from National Headquarters (501 W. Governor Ave., Hershey, PA 17033. Ph: 717-534-1910.

The manual lists clearly all of the classes available to-date.

Also, you can scroll down to the "Judging" topic in the left hand corner of the website main page.

Regards,

Peter J. <img src="http://www.aaca.org/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

[Shop Rat]

Welcome to "the dark side". Just kidding. You will meet wonderful people when you start judging. Both owners and other judges. This is a wonderful hobby for women as well as men. One of the best engine judges I ever had was a young woman that had started learning in her dad's auto shop at age nine.

If there is a judge in your local club, you might be able to talk them out of their 2004 Judges manual and it has copies of the judging forms in the back. Or at least they might loan it to you for you to read. I am sure a few things will change for next year, but the basics pretty much stay the same.

[Guest]

Susan ~ I think my wife, Judy, was captain of the team years ago on which that young woman started out. The description sounds identical.

hvs

[Shop Rat]

Very well could be. I could look back at my team lists and see who she was. I have saved most of them from when I started.

What eras did you and your wife tend to judge when you did?

[Guest]

Judy has generally judged the Model A classes over the past 28 years, and may again in the future.

In 34 years of judging I judged everywhere, but retired when I realized I could no longer do the job as I felt it should be done. Better to step down and have someone ask, "Why did he stop judging," than to hang in there and have people ask, "Why doesn't he know it's time to quit?"

hvs

[Shop Rat]

It is sad when that happens no matter what hobby or sport you participate in. But most people will face it at some point and have to decide when to step down.

Thirty-four years. I have to ask, how many credits did you retire from judging with?

[Guest]

265

[Shop Rat]

Wow. Congratulations. I am 205 short of that mark.

[Guest Old55ford]

Welcome to Judging

You can be a judge by attending one judging school and going through the apprentice training. The next Judging School will be in Philly in Feb. at the annual meeting. After that, there will be one at each National Meet in 2005.

Buddy

55 Ford

63 Buick

64 Comet

[Guest]

Susan ~ For whatever it is worth I started judging at age 36 and retired at 70.

To be perfectly honest I thought I would miss it, but I don't. Probably a combination of burnout and facing reality.

hvs

[Shop Rat]

Howard~I was 39 when I started judging. I got tired of Bill coming back to the RV with stories of all the great people he met. I wanted to meet great people also! And I have in the fourteen years I have been doing this. One of the first teams I was on I met Joe Vicini (and have judged with him several times) and I even knocked over my soda and got a small amount of it on him, and he was still willing to be the one to give me my fifty credit pin last year.

I know that someday it will be my turn to step down. I just hope it will be many years from now.

[Ron Green]

Howard, you are to be commended for obtaining that many judging credits. I think Hershey had 500 (plus) judges this year. I believe not to many years ago it was in the 700 to 800 range. Maybe we are seeing a trend starting with fewer judges? I will never be able to judge due to time limitations.

[Guest]

Ron ~ I think there are a number of reasons for the reduction in the number of judges at Hershey.

Unfortunately a goodly number of our judges have dropped out as the result of advancing age, physical limitations and most sadly of all, death.

Then there are those judges who just don't want to put up with the hassle of the crowds on the judging field at Hershey. I was there this year as a spectator and movement was often almost impossible because of the sheer numbers in the mob. I really felt for the judges trying to do their jobs under those circumstances.

Finally, I wonder if we are getting as many new judges each year as we lose. I'm sure many come to their first school, go through the apprentice program and then go out and judge for a while. I guess the big question is do they, or will they, stay around in sufficient numbers for the long haul to replace the long time judges we lose for the above stated reasons. I don't know that answer.

Getting judges for Hershey has always been a problem. I remember facing that problem back when I was VP Class Judging in '85 & '86. Susan said something that I found interesting. She said that her team started judging at 11 and was finished at 12. I can remember starting at 11 and not finishing until 3 back in the '80s. and yet we came back to do it again and again. So the shortage can't be because of the long hours on the field, it must be something else.

I put my money on it being the hassle of Hershey judging. I know a number of judges who have told me in recent years that they judge everywhere else but Hershey.

Hershey needs crowd control from 10:00 to 3:00 on Saturday on the judging field. After all, it is, or should be, a "judging field" first and a show for the general public second.

As usual, just my opinion.

hvs

[Shop Rat]

Hey Howard~We were able to be done in an hour for two reasons this year. Five no shows and four of the five that we did judge were very good cars.

One thing that I have wondered about is that younger (and some older) people lots of times have children/grandchildren and may have nowhere to leave them while they judge. Doug Drake started a wonderful program for the kids that came. But it is not available at all shows. Wonder if that holds some of the members from getting into judging or staying in it once children join their family?

And like you, I have heard negative comments by many judges about Hershey. And they are made by people I have seen at other shows so I know that Hershey is not their only experience. Several judges at Asheboro told me they were not going to Hershey this year. By it's very size it is going to be harder and take longer. And you are right, trying to judge cars while politely asking spectators to move away from the car while we do that is taxing. And if you happen to get a car that has throngs of people around it, that is the pits. Some people are nice and move away and some look at you like you have lost your mind when you ask that they let you around the car. Just one of the challenges of Hershey.

[Guest]

Susan ~ I know in its concept that Doug's youth program was meant to be an entry point to attract young people with the hope that such early experiences would contribute to a lifelong interest in the hobby. I know it was NOT intended to be a baby sitting service, although I know in some cases that is how it was and is used. I also know some formerly involved adult participants who have been turned off to the program for that very reason.

So we have a dilemma. A program with one intent being looked upon by some as having another. I know that when my children were too young to fend for themselves during Hershey, my wife or I [almost always her] did the baby sitting chores and did not judge. We felt that was our job as parents and it should come before our personal desire to judge. That's why the mother of my children had 107 credits when she died and I had quite a few more.

Your last paragraph seems to bear out my beliefs concerning Hershey judging.

hvs

[Shop Rat]

Howard~I am in total agreement that the youth program should not be abused as daycare. That is not what Doug wanted it to be. And shame on anyone that did abuse that.

Several years ago I jumped up and down to the AACA about a captain that I had at Hershey who brought her horrible two kids on the show field with us. (Well actually, she was going to have one and her husband one but in no time flat we had both of them with her.) The daughter was loud and asked unending questions about the scores where a deaf person could have heard her. And the two kids, a boy and girl, were climbing the decorative trees and jumping on the branches. It was a nightmare. Shortly after that they made a rule that no kids were to be with judging teams. We all know that at times there are going to be exceptions. But when they happen the children should be well behaved.

The flip-side is that at a Greenville, S.C. show one man brought his grandson, about age 11 or 12, and he was so helpful. Quiet, stood back away from the cars, and it was a day that rained and then would stop and get hot and humid. This boy OFFERED to hold umbrellas when we were judging and rain gear when it stopped. You could not have asked for a better behaved young man.

I think that one of the biggest problems with Hershey is not the judging. It is the lack of available parts at reasonable prices. In years past we found many things and bought them. This year my husband did not buy a single part in the three days of walking we did. The few, and I mean few, items he found were way more than he was willing to pay. Many people feel that with Carlisle just the weekend before that the vendors are short on items to offer when they come to Hershey. They have no time to go home and get things they might have there. And with the walkie-talkies the pros are going through several fields at once comparing prices and buying up the parts. We have seen a lot of that in the last few years.

[Guest]

Susan ~ As has been said by someone far wiser than I, "There are no bad children, just bad parents." Like you, been there and seen that.

hvs

[Shop Rat]

Howard~Sadly that is true. And more and more I see not only bad parents but bad ones that fully support how terrible their kids act. Even down to violence and bullying other kids, and the parents back them 100%.

[Guest greg72monte]

This reminds me of a local car show where I was Judging in Summit, NJ just last month. The show was held on the local downtown streets which were closed to through traffic. The DJ announced several times that bikes and scooters were to be walked amongst the show cars. I requested two young boys, maybe 4 & 6 years old to please walk their bicycles. Their mother promptly and angrily scolded me for making that request. How dare I speak to her children and make such a request. As she was hollering at me, I just walked away and really felt sorry for the boys. If discipline starts at home, I hope those children get guidance from another source.

[Shop Rat]

I think that is a problem at just about every show. Razor scooters can move so quickly. People, adults as well as kids, think they are good on bikes and scooters. All it takes is looking the wrong way and they are into a car or someone walking.

And don't even get me started on people that feel that their dog should be there on the hot asphalt.

Or the parents that look at you like you are crazy when you ask their kids to not get on, or get off of, the running boards of a car. "Well what do you care? It's not your car. He just wants to see inside."

AGGGG!!!!!!

[Peter J.Heizmann]

Kevin...getting back to the original subject, could you tell us how you are doing in acquiring judging rules?

Let us know if you require further assistance.

Regards,

Peter J. <img src="http://www.aaca.org/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

[Kevin W. Fisher]

Thank you all very much on responding to my original enquiries about judjing. I have been a member of the "Forum" for appx. 5 days, and have gotten a wealth of information! I have contacted National Headquarters and all books are on the way for a slight nominal fee. In the meantime,I located on the internet all information pertaining to judges rules,regulations,guidelines,etc. I have become educated on judging through responses at the Forum through experienced people,such as all of you. I have read everything a few times, but I still have questions on certain topics. I have a few questions about judging, but I will leave that for future Forums-I will become a judge and probabaly go to my first judging class at the national meeting in Philadelphia and hopefully will judge at Dublin,Ohio. I have a car I would like to try to be certified in HPOF ,but I undestand there are no awards other than certification/judging included.I have a lot to learn,but always open for info!!Ya'll keep talk'n-learned a lot-Thanks!! Kevin.

[Shop Rat]

You will learn something new from every judge and every captain you serve with. That's what helps keep this interesting. And be sure to go to your CJE each year and get a more in depth look at different aspects of the catagories. You can go to more than one CJE per year, but you can only get credit for one until you hit the 25 point increments, then you can take two in a year and get credit for both.

[Rick Lay]

Kevin,

We will be having an Apprentice Team at every National Meet (except the Annual Grand National Meet) next year starting with the Winter National in Gainesville, FL. Once you have gone to Judging School and served on the Apprentice Team, you are ready to field judge. We look forward to having you with us!