HarryJ Posted September 27, 2004 Share Posted September 27, 2004 I am looking for a rebuilding kit for a Stromberg UUR2 carb....any help? It fits a 1932 Studebaker Dictator; although I also understand it fits a '32 Pierce and a 1940 White truck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1937hd45 Posted September 27, 2004 Share Posted September 27, 2004 Add Bugatti Type 57 to the list. Used to make good money buying White truck carbs and selling them to the Bugatti guys. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
George Rohrbach Posted September 27, 2004 Share Posted September 27, 2004 Give these people a try. They have the carb kit listed! THE CARBURETOR SHOP Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pistoncollector Posted January 28, 2005 Share Posted January 28, 2005 Years ago I had a 1929 and a 1930 Pierce Arrow. They both ran UUR2 carbs on them. So maybe you might look at a Pierce carb kit for these years. And I have seen the UUR2 used on Duesenbergs too. You don't want to go there. Paul Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest stude8 Posted January 28, 2005 Share Posted January 28, 2005 Good luck on finding a "Rebuilding Kit", what is out there now are gasket sets but the jets and other parts like needles are hard to find. Studebaker used the UU2 in 1929 & 30 on many of the 8 cylinder cars. They are all different in capacity from Dictator, Commander and President. The main jets, idle mix jets and venturies vary in size. I even have one I got from a Lodge Marine engine conversion that has all brass castings instead of zinc die cast.What is the problem you are trying to solve? I have rebuilt many UU2's for Presidents and unless it has sat in a field for years with rain or condensation filling the passages that then freeze in winter and crack it apart inside you should be able to clean it up and cut your gaskets with an Xacto knife on the kitchen table. Getting the stuck main jet tube assemblies out of the diecast body is the toughest part to do without destroying the castings. The idle mixture jets are usually shredded from guys running the needles in too hard against the little diecast inserts. You will want to remake those out of brass rod to get it too idle smooth again. Early UU2;'s had die cast zinc throttle bodies that were bad the day they made them, they were replaced with cast iron bodies in mid 1929 in production. If you have a zinc TB start looking for a cast iron one, it is the only hope of making it run right again.Stude8 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carbking Posted January 28, 2005 Share Posted January 28, 2005 The UUR-2 Stromberg carburetor was the standard Stromberg 2 barrel updraft carburetor from mid-1929 through 1940. We list 109 applications in our database. The carburetor type decodes as follows: first U - type U construction; second U - 2 barrel; R - revised (the UUR series replaced the UU series); and 2 - S.A.E. size two.Rebuilding kits, as well as virtually all parts except castings are available.Jon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HarryJ Posted February 1, 2005 Author Share Posted February 1, 2005 carbking.....Thanks for your info on the UUR-2 Stromberg carb. Does anyone know or have they checked with Stromberg as to whether they still have the original dies from which the castings were made? Every once and a while these companies still retain stuff like this in a dusty warehouse some where. There may be a good chance Stromberg still has the dies because the carbs were built up to WWII and so they probably supplied replacements up into the fifties. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carbking Posted February 1, 2005 Share Posted February 1, 2005 Harry - check yes, dies no, but I did obtain the original blueprints.Jon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HarryJ Posted February 2, 2005 Author Share Posted February 2, 2005 carbking......How many different sets of blueprints did you get from Stromberg? From the little I am learning in today's world, if you have a set of blueprints you may have 40+/-% of the costs of reproduction dealt with in reproducing the dies and machining via CNC technologies. By the way, have you heard of a Pemberthy Ball & Ball SV-37? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carbking Posted February 2, 2005 Share Posted February 2, 2005 Harry - we acquired all the prints that were still in existance, many dating back to 1909. These are very helpful in our business. We have acquired prints from other carburetor companies as well.The Penberthy Injector Company produced carburetors in the 'teens and 'twenties. They had both a (S)ingle (V)enturi and a (D)ouble (V)enturi design (1 and 2 barrels). These were used by a number of different car companies.As to the reproduction of the UU-2 or UUR-2 complete carburetors, much too costly for the demand. Even reproduction of the EE-3 (with probably 10 times the demand) is cost prohibitive, and we did seriously look at the possibility.Jon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest stude8 Posted February 2, 2005 Share Posted February 2, 2005 There was a man at Hershey last October from New York I believe who had reproduced some Zenith dual updraft carbs intended for Stutz engines (I'm guessing on application) and they were very well done. I have photographs but they are too large of a file to attach in this forum. I looked at these because they almost looked like UU-2's at a glance and they might even be adaptable to a President 8 engine. I don't have photo edit ability at this workstation but will try to reduce the images to less than 100K size to attach here later. Stude8 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HarryJ Posted February 3, 2005 Author Share Posted February 3, 2005 stude8.......Yes, according to the "The Splendid Stutz" page 181, Stutz ran a dual throated Zenith up draft on the "BB" and "M" series. The model "M" units were made of defective "pot" medal. I heard that someone in Austrialia had reproduced these units some time in the recent past. If you could find a way to publish those pictures you have I would like to see them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
K8096 Posted February 3, 2005 Share Posted February 3, 2005 The Zenith carburators that are being reproduced by the guy in Connecticut are running about $1800 - $2000 each. That's just for the 3 castings and a pair of ventuis. You have to supply all of your own linkage and jets from an original carburator. They have been tested on a least two cars that I know of and are working well. I think there are enough UUR2's out there to meet the demand. Two years ago there was a guy in the red field at Hershey with a lot of Pierce Arrow parts & he had 5 UUR2's, all priced around $750 - $1000, depending on condition. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest stude8 Posted February 3, 2005 Share Posted February 3, 2005 Harry,Here is a reduced size photo of the Zenith repro carbs at Hershey 2004, I have misplaced the mans card at the moment, maybe someone in the know will post it.Stude8 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest stude8 Posted February 3, 2005 Share Posted February 3, 2005 Here is a second view of the Zenith reproduction carbs at Hershey 2004. Stude8 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carbking Posted February 3, 2005 Share Posted February 3, 2005 The Zenith 105-DC carburetor basically had 2 applications, Stutz and Ruxton. True, there were more than 2 different carburetors, but they basically differed in jetting only; so the same castings can be used.Contrast this to the Strombergs.The Stromberg UU-2 had 45 different applications. There are at least 3 different casting variations of EACH casting; and then each casting is machined differently for the different applications.The UUR-2 had more than 100 different applications. There are at least 5 different of two of the castings (one of the airhorn castings is shared by the UU-2), and again each casting is machined differently for the different applications. Both the UU-2 and the UUR-2 accept 5 different venturi sizes, which differ from one to the other.While not overly familiar with casting technique, I was told by ALL of the companies which we approached, that the bowl casting at least would require a "pressure" mold; vacuum casting was not an option.If one were going to reproduce A UU-2 or A UUR-2, which ONE would you reproduce??? We receive more calls for the Pierce UU-2 than any single one of the others.As I stated in a previous post, we looked into this project, and believed it to be an economic fiasco! We still do!Jon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest stude8 Posted February 3, 2005 Share Posted February 3, 2005 In conversation with the gentleman who did the Zenith repros, just as I would have thought, it is not an economical revenue source. He made a few on a subscription basis and as a challenge after he was retired from a technical career. The time and costs were greater than expected and a number of unexpected technical problems arose such that he didn't think he would run any more regardless of how much money was offered. Even with a hypothetical greater demand for UU2's, without automated tooling which would be astronomical in present day costs it would be quite an undertaking to say the least. Save your junk castings, the day may come where a way to treat the metal with a yet unknown material or process will allow them to be restored to functionality. Stude8 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HarryJ Posted February 5, 2005 Author Share Posted February 5, 2005 stude8.....I would like to talk with the gentleman that reproduced the Zenith carbs to get an idea of his experiences. I realize this project probably was a challenge for him; however, hearing of his trials and tribulations would be educational. If you think it would be OK let me know who it is. By the way, I have heard of a way to revitalize old zinc castings. I have heard you can coat them with ceramic coating, cure this, then place the piece in a furnace and remelt the original metal. This will start the crystalization clock all over. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jberk Posted February 8, 2005 Share Posted February 8, 2005 I have a uu2 carb that needs some work. Can you tell me where you got the information on the ceramic heat treatment? My wife has a kiln so it would be easy to do the work.Thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Ken G Posted February 8, 2005 Share Posted February 8, 2005 I am not a metallurgist, but it occurs to me that if the problem (with pot metal?) is that its crystalline structure changes over the years, with resultant swelling and brittleness, it might be possible to heat it and hold it at an elevated temperature but below the melting point and so restore the original structure by something like annealing. I know that the crystalline structure of iron alloys (steels) can be changed by heat treatment without change in the physical shape of a piece. Would any expert care to comment? (I am relieved that the Stromberg OS2 used a bronze main casting, so only the venturis are pot-metal.)Ken G, 1925 Rover 16/50 (San Francisco) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest De Soto Frank Posted February 8, 2005 Share Posted February 8, 2005 I think there might a problem with the "ceramic encapsulation/heating theory"...From what I've heard about "the problem" with early die castings ("inter-granular corrosion"), there is actually deterioration of the structure of the metal itself, at a molecular level; for the "re-amalgamation" to really be complete, wouldn't it be necessary to "burn" the corrosion out of the casting metal ? (Similar to the way the Bessemer process burns the impurities out of iron to make steel...)From what I've seen from crumbled pot-metal phonograph parts of the '20s, when the casting goes bad and crumbles, it's "rotten" through & through... it's not like there's "good metal" on the edges of a fresh break...Furthermore, when potmetal goes into this kind of decay, it usually "swells", and even if you did make a mold from the old part, the mould would copy the distorted version of the casting...Kind of a variation on the GIGO theory ?(I don't mean to be a wet-blanket here...the "coat & bake" idea just sounds too good to be true...)? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HarryJ Posted February 8, 2005 Author Share Posted February 8, 2005 jberk.....I heard of this a long time ago and I can't remember the source. I have never attempted to perform this remelt technique and would not unless I had studied it thoroughly. I mentioned it in the post in hopes of soliciting comment from others. From what I understand the crystalization process zinc is prone to is due to small amounts of lead in the alloy. I heard it called internal granular disintergration. If the piece is remelted the lead is still present and the crystalization clock starts all over, eventually resulting in a cracked and fragile piece again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carbking Posted February 8, 2005 Share Posted February 8, 2005 DeSoto Frank - I don't mind being a "wet blanket" in this case, as this discussion may have entered an arena where someone will get seriously injured!Hopefully, someone more versed in metallurgy will jump on this thread; if not, please, anyone who is thinking about this, please read the following:Years ago, we submitted several samples of "pot metal" or zinc alloy from different carburetors to a company having the ability to do some analysis as to content. Pot metal content has dramatically changed over the years. According to the information we received, the early (pre-1932~1940, depending on the company) could have up to 5 times the lead as modern pot-metal. It supposedly is the impurities in the lead that cause much of the problem. Different companies changed the "recipe" at different times. Stromberg seems to have changed about 1932. This means all original U series carbs U, UU, UT, and UX had the defective pot metal, while some of the replacement units in these series would be OK. The early original UR series UR, UUR also had the defective metal, but later original and replacement units would be OK.Stromberg coded their models. In the series above: U meant series U; UT is series U for trucks; UX is series U with a cross-flange; UU is a two-barrel series U; UR meant series U revised.THE EARLY POT METAL CAN EXPLODE WHEN HEATED!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! JUST LIKE A HAND GRENADE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!We found this out when an elderly gentleman who said he could weld anything attempted to weld some of this stuff tried to weld it. I was present (and being watched over by someone) when he hit the metal with a flame, and a chunk of the metal WENT THROUGH THE GARAGE WALL!!! Neither of us were hurt, but we will not try it again.If you are going to play with this stuff, BE CAREFUL!The later pot metal can be welded with a special rod.Jon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HarryJ Posted February 9, 2005 Author Share Posted February 9, 2005 carbking......Thanks for being a wet blanket! Safety is No. 1 ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest stude8 Posted February 9, 2005 Share Posted February 9, 2005 We are not talking about remelting a simple cavity like a tea cup here, a UU2 or any other carb for that matter has complex internal passages that would be lost if it were baked to a melting point again. The corrosion present in the alloy would have to be replaced with new material if in fact the theory does work.As for the welding expert, one does not "Weld" Zinc material, it can be soldered but to apply a heat source of welding capacity surely will cause an expansion and sudden oxidation of spectacular results like the experience described. Stude8 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest stude8 Posted January 11, 2006 Share Posted January 11, 2006 Harry:This subject is almost a year old but by luck I was sorting through files (We are preparing to move a long way from where we have lived 31years) and came across the card from the man that reproduced the Zenith carb bodies who was at Hershey 2004. John Grunder, 876 New Harwinton Rd, Torrington, CT 06790 email me at johns@lowrey.com for the phone number.John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom M Posted January 11, 2006 Share Posted January 11, 2006 stude8,You moving south Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guffin Posted January 11, 2006 Share Posted January 11, 2006 This company makes reproductions of the U2 and UX2 carbs. If there is enough demand they will probably make the UU2.http://www.vintageandclassicreproductions.com/Jan(Sorry, I forgot the link. Here it is Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carbking Posted January 11, 2006 Share Posted January 11, 2006 If someone had a few extra million to spend on tooling, and really wanted to do this project, we should have most (possibly all) of the original drawings and blueprints; which could be made available. The question becomes - which of the 45 DIFFERENT model UU-2 carburetors would one reproduce?Jon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest stude8 Posted January 12, 2006 Share Posted January 12, 2006 To Tom "Packin31", yes we are moving to Harrisburg, IL area not as far South as I would have liked but there are mitigating circumstances and a remarkable piece of property we located and bought last Nov.Stude8 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guffin Posted January 12, 2006 Share Posted January 12, 2006 I corrected my previous post and added the link to the maker of U2 carbs. here it is againhttp://www.vintageandclassicreproductions.com/ Jan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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