Pick a Topic, Any Automotive Topic!

[R W Burgess]

RE;" <span style="font-weight: bold">...my daughter was married this weekend here in Hershey and I am spent. </span>"

Yes, Steve, marrying off daughters has a habit of doing that to your bank account. <img src="http://www.aaca.org/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> Been there, done that!

Wayne

[48LCCOUPE]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">1. How do we attract younger members </div></div>

http://www.enjoythedrive.com/content/?id=8575

[DizzyDale]

Dear Steve and anyone or everyone interested in growing this club.Hows this for a novel concept,how about ADVERTISING the next Grand National,National or regional event in something other than the house publication that all members get and are already aware of.I am sure there are many Grandpas,Dads and sons that would enjoy an afternoon together checking out the old iron.How about a small ad in the sports page of the local paper the Friday before the meet?Just a thought.diz

[poci1957]

Alan, lots of good points here, one I have a disagreement with. Item one on younger members, I also think we discourage them by teaching that the hobby requires a lot of cash. It is undeniable that a full ground-up restoration to senior status DOES require lots of cash. BUT that aside, there are lots of ways a young person or family can enjoy the hobby in DPC or by touring in an older restoration (or original). You are spot on about the 1915-30 cars, and they are in fact just the thing for this scenario, they should be available at reasonable costs unless you are looking at a luxury car or a rare open car. One can get driver quality postwar cars reasonable too if you will consider a four door or six cylinder engine. Remember, a $5000 sedan can go to the same show or cruise night as a $35,000 1957 Thunderbird AND can be enjoyed without as much worry of rain, paint chips, or kids climbing in and out. Such may in fact be the best side of the old car hobby, if not the sexiest. I disagree with segregating the areas of interest in the magazine and at shows. It is true that you may not be interested in postwar cars and the musclecar guy may not care about the 1910 Mitchell, but on the other hand I really think that as we dig into old cars a bit our interests broaden out a bit and the Chevelle guy may find new exposure to a brass car interesting. That is how it worked for me anyway, and as I finish my ground-up 1957 Pontiac and drive my clean original "driver" Trans Am, I will enjoy brass cars at Hershey above all else. Hopefully others will enjoy the variety of the hobby as I do. Best wishes, Todd C

[Steve Moskowitz]

Diz and others, I completely agree with you about the need to publicize our events. I have a group of public relations experts I plan on having a meeting with, to outline a strategic pr plan for AACA. This is an easy area to fix at a low cost with high yield. Thanks for reinforcing this need.

[ksparks]

Steve,

would it be cost prohibitive to offer the magazine once a year to the general newstands or an edited version with a selected articles and interesting items?

[Steve Moskowitz]

This is an idea that has been discussed with many of our potential new editors. As we change the magazine we may in fact have an opportunity to distribute it as a regular newstand item. We also may be able to publish a newsletter to our members in the odd months. Lots of interesting ideas ahead....

[R W Burgess]

Great news, Steve. I agree with Strade that a general public magazine could do wonders for the club. Some decent car material would be appreciated on the sorry newsstands of today. Wayne

[Guest imported_klb]

When it comes to publicity, the AACA has a great opportunity right here with the website. Right now, from my perspective anyhow, it's pretty member oriented and not especially non-member oriented.

It's possible to maintain the member oriented aspect and improve the attractiveness to non-members at the same time.

One way to do that might be to feature atricles about ...

The hobby in general

What makes a good first collector car

What to look for when buying an antique car

"How To" articles

Tour stories

etc. etc.

All of which good easily extoll the benefits of active AACA membership. The website already gets a fair amount of traffic, why not take advantage of it?

And I suspect that a good bit of this kind of material is already available from the chapter websites. Maybe you could feature an article from a chapter newsletters. Good for the national club, and the chapters.

Another resource might be to edit threads from this forum. When a particularly good thread developes, edit, or expand it, into an article and publish it on the main website.

As an example there was a thread a year or so that started out with a member asking what would make a good first pre-war car. That was a wonderful thread.

[i found the thread: What's a Good Prewar Daily Driver

There have been great threads on all sorts of hobby related issues. Featuring articles like that would not only informative, but also show case the forums and the helpful nature of AACA forums.

[A. Woolf]

I agree that restoring a car to the Senior or Grand National Award status can be quite expensive depending on the amount of hands on work the owner does. But there are a lot of owner restorations and nice original cars that will easily win 2nd or 3rd junior prizes. Many years ago Bert Harrington who at the time had more judging credits than anyone else in AACA told me that the majority of trophies given out at National Meets were Senior and 1st Junior awards. That may still be true. I guess many car owners underestimate the quality of their cars and don't realize that they could win a National Award. The point in all this is that a young person can participate with their car in National judging even if they drive it to the show. They don't necessarily have to have a lot invested or have a rare or unique car. This is one of the little known "secrets" of AACA National Judging and it gives many opportunites for all hobbyists at every level to participate.

Alan

[Steve Moskowitz]

Ken, we agree with you. The next website redesign will be a marketing tool for AACA and the hobby. We will not neglect our forum or our other features. We intend on making this an exciting site that has easy navigation.

[Ron Green]

Here's an interesting idea that I posted earlier but it vanished for some reason. Take the most interesting car related thread that is completed in a 2 month period and print it in the AA magazine. It will allow the membership without computers (which are many) to see what this website is all about regarding the different views, topics, fixes, vehicle problems, opinions, etc..

The Amphicar club does this with their monthly newsletter and it is very popular for those who don't use or have computers. Sort of keeps everybody on the same page especially with a good discussion topic.

[nearchoclatetown]

The Antique Motorcycle Club of America started selling the newsletter on the news stand this year. I feel it's lost it's club orientation and turned into just another news stand magazine. If you have to explain the club philosophy in every issue it gets old.

[ksparks]

Maybe we should to include myself quit promoting EBAY on this site and with a few more color photos etc try to expand this as the ultimate trading location. I have bought my share of parts/sold parts/bought twenty era repair books but EBAY has become a more a source for overpriced items that a true benefit to the hobby. Plus we have the tools to market this site like the prewar ( Belgian site ) car location. A few articles/pic/ classified or trading section it would not take long for the word to spread.

keith sparks

auburn/moon

[Guest c.johnson]

First of all it has been a while since I have posted... not sure even how long, but I am still here. Problem has been that I have been there, and there, and there, and........

Anyway, I feel I can contribute my 2 cents worth about why there aren't more regions/chapters/members in the West, since I do in fact claim a Western State as my Home of Residence most of the time....

The biggest problem in the West as far as the AACA is concerned is exposure. Having even tried to establish a region/chapter in the great State of Utah, most of the population has not even heard of AACA. Some have heard of VMCCA, since there are 2 clubs/chapters in the area.

Problem is, you don't have members unless you have knowledge of the organization, but you don't have knowledge of the orginization without members.... Also, you don't have exposure with a tour/show, but you don't have a tour/show without members. again a paradox..

I have on numerous occasions tried to recruit members during several local car shows, but this is near impossible without a car in the show - (another problem, maybe someday solved...) Hand outs or posting flyers gets you a few interesting phone calls, but definatly not about old cars.... Current members are under the impression that since we don't currently have a local chapter/region, then why do we need to pay local dues, or work to get one??

Yea, sure people are interested, but what is the selling point of a car club with few members and a National Headquarters across the country, that very few have ever even heard about?

I would be interested in the answer to this question as well.

c.johnson

[Dynaflash8]

QUOTE: We have good attendance at the Reliability Tours, but AACA has decided to make them only every other year. Is that a good decision? UNQUOTE from Ron B.

Ron, am I not correct that the Reliability Tour, per-se, is every other year (1915 and earlier), but the Vintage Tour on the off-year is for vehicles 1927 and earlier, therefore allowing participation by the 1915 and earlier vehicles both years? If this has already been addressed I appologize. I've only read down as far as the top message on page 2.

Just back from California and was very, very tired, but now on a second wind after a midnight flight. Several items mentioned sofar sort of amaze me, others baffle me, and still others I have no answers for as yet. There's no way I can answer all of them....at least not in the short term.

There are 18 "Zone Reps" who are contacting Regions and Chapters around the country simply to bring information and understanding from the National club and making an effort to "put a face" on the National club so that it would not seem so "distant" and to show that the National club is interested in all of its members. Yes, I did appoint two "focus groups" of active members looking for ideas that might come to the National club from those areas. One group is made up of Central and Western members and the other Young Adult members aged 25-50....members mostly still working, and having family responsibilities. Such an effort shouldn't be considered "meddling". Instead it is an honest effort to bring AACA closer to all of its members..or, let's say a it is a beginning effort which no doubt can be improved as time goes by.

Earl Beauchamp, President

[Dynaflash8]

There's an old saying, "you have to crawl before you can walk." With Steve Moskowitz at the helm with have a new combination (combination of leadership and circumstances that has only begun to unlock all of the new possibilities). The ideas are exciting, the plans are either in thought stages or groundwork is being laid. Just stay tuned. The magazine will become something each member will be looking for anxiously in the mailbox, not just to register for a Meet or Tour, but for all of the good reading inside. It's coming.

Advertise our Meets/Tours to the Public? Only this weekend in California a non-member said to me, as I circulated throught the car owners shaking hands and thanking them for coming, "I didn't know this was here. If you want more new members you need to advertise these events so car enthusiast will come and SEE what you have to offer."

Get out more very old cars? I really think they may be starting to come around for their second tour of ownership as owners age past keeping them, and they are passed on to new ownership. In the last six months I have now stumbled across five pre-1916 cars that I remember from the early to mid-1960s and remember who owned them, that have suddenly reappeared after many years, with new owners. On the Reliability Tour I met a young man in his early 40's with a wife and young child who were touring a very early car. He got the "bug" from his Dad in the 1960s and is now able to Tour himself. At Hagerstown a 1906 Cadillac was shown, restored, by the son of a well-known deceased member of the National Capital Region. He had held onto this car for over 40 years until he was able to re-restore it and bring it out again, as his father had done. I think those examples are exciting.

By the way, I've tried to keep my "speeches" at these banquets short, but to carry a message of youth and enclusion, and not boring. Our Directors travel all over the country to these events, at their own expense, basically to share the events with our members, mingle, and show everyone we are just regular folks and want to be with them. The banquets do give an opportunity for these folks to be recognized by name and at the same time for the members to know who they are.

Whatever was done in the past, was done in the past. If I don't accomplish anything else during my short year at the helm here, I would like to get the ball rolling toward better cementing East to West, North to South AACA as what it should be, one strong club, all for one, one for all.

Stay tuned, I believe the best of AACA is yet to come.

[Doug Chenay]

Moved to its own post on this forum! Wayne

[Steve Moskowitz]

Value. In the end, everyone makes their decision on the value of the relationship. AACA must, and will, provide new and innovated value to its members. We must provide a world class magazine and we must treat our members with world class service. If we do all these things AND do a much better job at public relations, the entire country will know of AACA.

This Fall, a new TV show, Antiques Roadshow FYI will be at our Eastern Division Fall Meet filming segments on our hobby and AACA. Hopefully, this will be the first of many new TV appearances by us.

We have a big job to do and it is like eating an Elephant, you must do it one bite at a time.

[ex98thdrill]

Oh no Earl, I understand your viewpoint on recognizing your national directors, and it wasn't intended as a slam in way. But I would say that the banquets get very expensive for the officers such as yourself, the membership, and requires a lot more work on the host regions that has already busted their butt on setting up the show. For a family to go to the banquet, it adds up. To figure the cost of the car, the restoration, the travel expenses, the entry fees, and then the banquet adds up to a lot of money. With your years of being a national officer, I can't imagine the money that you've spent going to all of the meets, and because of the personal amount of time and money that people such as yourself, and the other officers spend to make all of these meets has gained a lot of respect from me.

[R W Burgess]

Pat, You're right about some of the tours being expensive. I've been on one in the last couple of years. I remember just the registration fees being around $500.00 (5 day tour, I think). That fee did not include any of the hotel/motel charges or the gasoline credit card bills. Now, I'd say, why would you go on a tour and not want to do everything? If you didn't go to a couple of the stops to try to save money, you'd certainy feel left out. Tough call, I know, but tours are so much fun and driving your antique on the highway with others in a group is better then popcorn and a movie. <img src="http://www.aaca.org/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> We just have to figure out how to make them inexpensive, maybe 2 or 3 day tours instead. A lot of young people can't afford this type of tour. Just my experience. Wayne

[Peter J.Heizmann]

Hi, Pat...

This reminds me of "Golf".

Like most of us over the years, novices, neighbors, or, friends have stated what a nice car. Good investment, mister!!

Well, my answer has always been a question: "If one loves golf, spends $50-$80 bucks every week, and, more, in my area. One becomes a good golfer over his/her golfing years. In the end, how many bucks did you make, or, lose?".

If they argue my point: "How many bucks did you spend in the 19th hole on top of the Greens Fees?"

Answer from the majority: "zippo!, natta", zilch".

"Did you enjoy becoming a 5, or, whatever handicapper?".

That being said, "how many great friends, or, interesting conversations have you had playing golf, of which, no money could buy, and, cars or golf become secondary?"

Guess it all boils down to what does one want to do. Banquets are held at golf tournaments, car venues, bowling leaques, and, so on...

Seriously, this is how I respond whenever I find myself in a relative scenario.

Regards, Peter J. <img src="http://www.aaca.org/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

[D Binger]

Now we have 18 zones? What was wrong with the 4 divisions we have? The AACA is getting like the federal government with so many committees. Everyone is studying everything and no one is doing anything to correct what is wrong. We don?t need more people telling the regions what to do than we have already. I think with all these committees it could be the end of things as we know it in this hobby.

Wayne,

I think that the reason for the high prices for registration on tours is that every region is trying to outdo the last one and they keep getting fancier and the result is the price gets higher and higher with every tour. Another thing, the high prices will keep the young folks from attending. I just came back from a national HCCA tour that was five day long and the price was under $400.00. There were maybe seven or eight young couples, younger than 35, registered on the tour. I don?t think that if the price were over $600.00 many of them would have attended the tour.

Dan

[Steve Moskowitz]

Dan, ease up! The 18 "Zone Reps" are our Development and Support people. Many of our Regions and Chapters are very happy to have a more personal contact with the national organization. These people are instrumental in helping us with booking future meets and tours among other things.

"Everyone is studying....". I have to disagree with you on this one as I have sat in on some of these committee meetings and attend our board meetings. Being a board member gets you a lot of benefits, like spending serious dollars of your own, giving up your time and missing a lot of the fun in the hobby while you are "working". There are many changes in the works for AACA but they do not happen over night. Our committees are extremely important to AACA.

Besides myself and our staff, this is a volunteer organization with a lot of actual work that is done by individuals without any compensation at all. These people do it for the love of the hobby and a belief in AACA.

This is not meant to be defensive but from where I sit, I get the big picture. In addition, our office is dedicated to making AACA stronger. Every day (which is mostly 7 days and long hours) is dedicated to showing improvement for the business and better value for our members. Stay tuned. <img src="http://www.aaca.org/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

[Dynaflash8]

These 18 Development & Support Chairpersons have the job to cover most of 48 states in person and Hawaii and Alaska and several other states where we could not find a reasonably close-by Chairman, by mail. I have taken the "Zone Rep" vernacular from the auto industry since it seemed more appropriate to me than "Chairman". This is because their job is to represent AACA National and what it has to offer to the Regions and Chapters, on request. Or, in some cases by simply attending a local event. I found while I was VP - Regions that many Regions & Chapters, as well as individual members, felt left out because they had never ever seen, met or heard from someone elected or appointed as a National representative with knowledge that they could impart as to what AACA had to offer. Basically these Chairpersons/Zone Reps visit a Region or Chapter Meeting, and give a presentation about AACA, and sometimes this is done by a Director. In fact I have visited Regions in Sebring and Naples, Florida and San Angelo, Texas and given a presentation and they were really appreciative. We did have a really good video to show, but it is now so outdated we need to find a way to make a new one, and I don't recommend using it anymore. But in closing the whole idea is and was mine, and it is to give members who have never seen or been close to the National organization or anyone associated in some way with it, a chance to "put a face" on AACA. Any Region or Chapter who doesn't want to have a presentation at their meeting certainly isn't required to have one. It's just a program we offer to help members better understand what the National AACA is all about, and show them that the National organization does care about every member.

[24T42]

I have been monitoring this thread and am surprised about the lack of response concerning touring. I know this question would only touch a few people but I thought there might be some comments. So here goes - my two cents worth.

The touring side of the hobby is great - although not for all members. I was tour chairperson for the 1999 Vintage Tour, which was only the 2nd one ever held. The Brass-Nickel Touring Chapter (BNTC) was the host chapter and was chartered in October of 1997. In February of 1998, I got a call from National asking us to consider hosting the tour. At this point, we had not even had one meeting yet as a chartered chapter, no chapter member had been on a AACA national tour, and we had about $50 in the treasury. We took several months to meet and get organized, fill out the application, send in the paperwork, and get Board approval. By the time all this was done, it was mid-summer. The only available date was August 1999 - just 13 months away. We got the job done and managed to put on a good tour with many new ideas like the tour book. We offered an affordable tour ($125 for car, driver, and one passenger); however, because of the costs involved and the low number of participants (34 registered), we lost money.

What I want to address is some of the costs of putting on a tour - particularly for the smaller tours. If you ever read the chapter in the national Policy manual on hosting a tour, there are a lot of requirements that you must meet in order to host a tour. I am sure that they were put there for a good reason. However, because of the low numbers of tourists some are budget breakers. Case in point-

1. The tour bags need to be clear on one side. You will understand this rule if you have ever ridden in an open car in a rainstorm. The problem is that they were (in 1999) only available one place. I had to order a minimum of 50.

2. We needed to have two banners per car. Once again there was a minimum number to be ordered of 50 (or 100 banners).

<span style="text-decoration: underline">Solution:</span> It would great if National could purchase a quantity of bags and blank banners and offer them at cost to the host Region. I could have gotten them silk screened locally but I was unable to find a local source. Now that I think about, I could have gotten them done for free in exchange for a free ad in the tour book. So my costs would have been reduced to cost, I would have another gotten sponsor, and I could have ordered the amount needed not a minimum. Does any one want to buy a 1999 Tour bag or banner?

3. Dash plagues - are great but a huge expense. With a required minimum order of 100, we had plenty left over. In fact, we had more left than we gave out. For this one, I do not have any ideas except to say that we need to be allowed to be creative in offering alternative ideas.

4. This was a real budget breaker. We had to furnish a room all week for the National President, tour director, and tour chairperson. For our tour, I could not arrange any complimentary rooms. In 1999, rooms were at a premium. I did get a great rate for everyone of $49/night but when you subtract the number of people who stayed in campers, we only booked about 30 rooms. This expense was almost $1,000 (our biggest expense). Not sure what to do here.

Since 1999, I have been on several National tours. All were great and I had a great time - even those that we came in on the bone wagon. I have found, for me, one major factor in deciding on whether to go on a tour is cost. If I really want to go, I can find the time. If I really want to go, I will probably travel the distance. Part of the answer here is to keep them affordable.

[ronbarn]

Have been on a few tours and agree with Dan - some host regions are trying to make their tour the biggest and best, to hell with a budget. As 24T42 mentioned, there has to be some flexibility for the hosts. When we hosted the first Buzzy tour we solved the banner problem by asking each participant to bring banners from some previous tour. We had a wide variety of previous tour banners and some who had not been on a National Tour made their own.

When we hosted the first Founders Tour there were no guidelines so we were able to have a lot of flexibility to host a tour that was reasonable in cost and still a lot of fun. I agree that some creativity can be fun and not necessarily at high cost. We are hosting a tour for another club that will have four days of touring plus an optional day for early arrivals and the fee is $120 and includes breakfast on each day, an open bar hospitality room each day, lunch on two days and the banquet at the end. We are expecting about 20 cars and 75-80 members.

One of the problems is that some hosts do not make an early budget to identify cost items and then negotiate hard to reduce costs. An affordable tour with lots of good activities is achievable in most areas.

[Guest]

Ron ~ Interesting that you should express your thoughts on tour costs on this particular day. In an article in the Philadelphia Inquirer, Jacques Rogge, President of the International Olympic Committee, was quoted as saying, "The Olympic Games is a competition between athletes. It is not a competition between organizing committees."

I think this same thought applies to AACA Regions sponsoring tours. A tour should be for the pleasure of the guest tourists and not a competition between organizing committees to see who can hold the largest and grandest tour, regardless of the cost to the tourists.

In spite of the previously expressed concerns of many of us over the past several years, the upward spiral of AACA tour cost continues, while the VMCCA and HCCA hold to a more reasonable and modest standard.

hvs

[Guest]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> </div></div> This was a real budget breaker. We had to furnish a room all week for the National President, tour director, and tour chairperson. For our tour, I could not arrange any complimentary rooms. In 1999, rooms were at a premium. I did get a great rate for everyone of $49/night but when you subtract the number of people who stayed in campers, we only booked about 30 rooms. This expense was almost $1,000 (our biggest expense). Not sure what to do here.

Judy ~ I think the complimentary room for the National President is a must. Beyond that I feel there should be flexibility.

The Tour Director can be comped if there are free rooms available, but if not then that person should either pay his or her own way or not go on the tour. After all, virtually all of the Tour Director's duties involve pre tour responsibilities. It is like fatherhood, in that the father is necessary for the conception phase but is not absolutely required at the delivery. The Nat. Pres. can fill in the gaps if the TD cannot be present.

The Tour Chairman is a local Region official in most cases. This person should be able to decide along with the committee whether or not there will be sufficient funds to cover a free room for the tour. I have known tour chairmen who, when a hub tour was based in the town where they live, that have stayed in their own home during the tour, by choice.

Now as far as comping the tour expenses for the three individuals, I feel that should be done for all three, as it is a much smaller expense than the hotel room.

No Region should be expected to lose money on a tour because of freebies to officials. If the Region loses money it should have been on something that benefits all the participants, not just a few individuals. I have been out of the loop for several years now, but doesn't AACA underwrite reasonable and unexpected Region losses on the major 5 day National Tours??

hvs

[24T42]

Howard,

Yes - I did not mean to imply that National did not accept the loss. Quite to the contrary. When I presented my final budget, I included a check from the chapter for all the proceeds we made from the sale of t-shirts in order to reduce the debt. This was the only money that the chapter earned. I can report that National returned the check and gave the chapter a big THANKS for hosting the tour despite the loss.

My efforts here are to simply, in my limited tour experience, point out some areas where I saw that we could have saved money. I agree that the National President should have a complimentary room. My concerns are who should pay for it. Since the President is representing the AACA, it makes sinces to me that the AACA pay for the room. It is an extension of the job where public relations is a big part of the job. Tour fees are easily asorbed

[A. Woolf]

Dan,

Did the $400 cost include lodging? If so that was a heck of a deal.

Alan

[R W Burgess]

The Northern Neck Region had a visit recently from Neil Sugermeyer . Neil is the Eastern Division Chairman of Development and Support. The program Neil put on was very informative, including the movie he brought along to show how our little region fit within the National Club. Some of our newer members had no idea how the AACA operated and Neil did a very good job of explaining that operation. Neil also explained how other regions went about making money and how they keep the hobby interesting to everyone. Yes, it is good to see a National officer show up at your meetings and keep you up to date with things. <img src="http://www.aaca.org/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" /> Wayne

[Dynaflash8]

One thing I forgot to mention about the Development & Support Chairpersons. They are asked to read and understand the Policy & Procedure Manual and be able to answer many questions they might receive from an audience at a Region & Chapter Meeting. And, too, if they can't answer a question, which surely is possible, they are asked to come back through their channels and try to find the answer and reply back to the Region or Chapter. By the way, Neil Sugermeyer is well known within his area as an active longtime member who is and has always been well informed. I'm glad that the Northern Neck Region found his presentation interesting. Although that is my home Region, I have not been able to attend often over the last couple of years, between my Florida home and my AACA travels. Guys, I've still got my Virginia house, and maybe I can make more meetings next year.

On touring costs, I would say that these can be greatly affected by the area in which the tour may be held. For example, in the White Stone, VA area where I Chaired a tour, costs were very light (and lodgings very much more limited) as compared to a Tour in the Washington, DC or Philadelphia, PA or San Francisoco, CA area might be, to say nothing of still more expensive areas (but the lodgings are likely to be very much better, too). As in anything, there are a lot of variables that come into play. But I agree, everyone should try to keep their costs at the lowest possible amount that their area will allow, and still have something worthwhile for people to do. I haven't answered all of the items Judy brought up, but have made note of them.

[Guest]

Judy ~ National already gives the President a travel allowance that covers some, and I can assure you only SOME, of his expenses as President. When I was President my out of pocket expenses for that year were $12,000 and that was over and above the travel allowance. However the travel allowance has been substantially increased since my day, I believe.

I guess the question here is, is [sounds like Clinton doesn't it] does the President attend a tour as a representative of the club or as the invited guest of the Region. If he is considered an invited guest, then his presence would be the host Region's reponsibility and they should pay for everything. If he is a National representative then he would likely be REQUIRED to attend, and of course National could be expected to pick up the hotel tab. So I suppose the question is does the Region want him there as its guest or as a paid employee of AACA. I think the former is more gracious and therefore preferable.

Once when I was President I was invited to a tour with complimentary registration and hotel room. Somebody assigned me a suite because I was Prez, I suppose. A few weeks after the tour was over I received a bill for the hotel accomaodation with the note stating that "expenses ran a little above what was expected and would I please pay this bill." I did, which contributed many hundreds of dollars to my $12,000 out of pocket. Never get the idea that being President is ALL a bed of roses.

Now let's move on to the other two positions. The Tour Director is appointed by the Board to oversee the tour. I see no reason why the host group should be required to pay for his hotel room. If the Board wants him there, let the Board, read AACA, pick up the tab. I once knew of a Director who volunteered to be a Tour Director and later privately stated that he only did it to get a free tour. He was later replaced in the early stages for not doing his job properly.

The last position, Tour Chairman, is a host Region position and how that person's accomodations are handled should be solely up the the Region!

And as Forrest Gump said, "And that's all I have to say about that."

hvs

[Guest]

Earl ~ I would like to address two items in your post.

First, I'm not sure there are people available out here in the West with sufficient AACA background to handle the job in the manner that some of the long timers from "back East" can. But then, sending someone out from "back east" to tell us frontiersmen how to run our club lives isn't the answer either. Damned if you do and damned if you don't, I guess.

Solution to the problem of costs involved in holding a tour in the high rent district. Try not to hold tours in the high rent districts. Big cities aren't all that great for tours anyway. Getting in and out of town each day can become a dangerous hassle. I drove on a tour [Founders, 1936 to 25 year old cars] that went into San Francisco. Great day but scared the bejesus out of some us non Californians. I had to tow one tourist on a motorcycle off of the Freeway at rush hour. Not for the faint at heart, either rider or puller. On another tour [Reliablity, 1915 and older cars] we were taken on Interstates and into Hartford, Conn. NOT FUN.

My 2 cents for now.

hvs

[Steve Moskowitz]

Over 2000 views! Since when have we had a topic like this! What makes me happy is that there is a lot of great material for us to think about and hopefully make changes for the better.

The one thing I am most disappointed about is that there are no comments about what you would like to see in our magazine. Without letting my personal vision out, color and a UV front cover are a must. I have a lot of other ideas but would like to hear yours first! We will hire a new Editor-in-Chief soon and I want us to get it "right"! If you get a chance to see the new Hemmings Classic Car magazine, you will see graphically where I would like to take us. Other than that, please give me your thoughts!

[Guest imported_klb]

Steve; I just got the first issue of the new Hemmings Classic Car magazine, that was a complementary issue they sent me for some reason. I promptly subscribed!

That said, I subscribe to a lot of the hobby oriented magazines. I just can't seem to get enough of this stuff.

But here's what I really wanted to mention regarding the AACA publication.

My wife is not really into the old cars thing. She's getting more interested though, so there's hope.

The AACA magazine is her favorite! Actually, other than Old Cars weekly, it's the only one she reads. She looks forward to its arrival and grabs it so she can read it before me.

Thanks AACA!

Mix in some color/better graphics and it will be even that much better.

[Dynaflash8]

Howard, a couple of quick comments. All of the Chairpersons I chose for west of the Mississippi were as "out there" as I could get. Nobody is out of place. For the most part I chose people for the immediate areas they were to serve. In some cases they have to cover several states but only live in one of them. Wyoming was difficult, but I found a person in Colorado who regularly traveled to Wyoming, New Mexico, West Texas. As I said, I couldn't get a person really close to a couple of states, but nobody is assigned "out west" who doesn't live "out west". After all, these people have to travel at their own expense and for the love of the club and the hobby, so I couldn't ask them to travel very far, at least unless it was part of their job to travel to those areas.

As for the high rent district.....well, I didn't mean "downtown DC". I meant some suburban areas of larger communities, because this is where the more decent amenities are. I think you can ask anyone who was on the Tour I chaired and they'll tell you it was a wonderful tour to wonderful places, and the food was good, but the lodging (the actual only place we had in the area that could hold the people -- which has since closed) was not up the the standards they had become accustomed to. <img src="http://www.aaca.org/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

[Guest]

Earl ~ Nothing I have said was meant as anything other than thoughts and ideas. I never said or even inferred, I don't think, that anyone from "back East" had been assigned out here. I merely said I didn't think that doing that would be a good idea.

Question? Is one of the objectives of these positions to look at and groom new people for future Board member consideration, or is it to get the people most knowledgable about AACA to do the job? There might be some qualified people out this way who could handle the job, but have no ambition for higher office. But then maybe finding people who do not want to move on to "greater things" who are willing to accept these jobs could be difficult. I also recognize that your job is in one respect like the President of the US in that you can't possibly know all of the best qualified people and must rely on advisors in making your selections. Of course you, like the President, will get the blame for anything that is not up to expectations about a selection.

My comments on this thread are only made to further the discussion and NOT to stir up ANYTHING. They are made basically to cause people to THINK. Agreement is not a consideration.

hvs

[R W Burgess]

Howard, for my part, what you said was informative and well thought out. There is a lot of interesting, important ideas being bounced around on this thread. Keep up the good work.

As far as the magazine, Steve, I'd like to see more color between the cover pages myself. That's probably what needs to be done first, before actually sharing our publication with the world on the local magazine racks. Wayne