Copy of build sheet from Ford

[Guest imported_MikeWilliamsUK]

This is particularly for V12Bill.

Bill, a month or so ago you told us where to send a check for a copy of the build sheet but, as you may remember, my car is not a Lincoln but a Jensen fitted with a Lincoln engine from new, so the only Lincoln number I have is the engine number, stamped onto the gearbox housing. Can Ford trace anything from that, or do they need a chassis number?

Would the build sheet tell me anything anyway? like "engine purchased by Jensen Motors", or "spare engine for Lincoln UK", or even details of Jensen's customer, bearing in mind the car was exported new to California, so Jensen may have negotiated a warranty on the mechanical parts with Lincoln/Ford?

Thanks,

Mike

[Guest imported_V12Bill]

Mike, You have a very interesting situation. The VIN # on the bell housing would be the number to submit to FOMOCO for tracing its origin. I would think that your engine/gearbox would be in the catagory of an export part rather than an export car.It would be interesting to see what the file on your VIN # reads. Share this info with us when you get it.

Bill

[Guest imported_MikeWilliamsUK]

Thanks Bill. I have written to them, so we'll wait and see.

Mike

[Guest imported_MikeWilliamsUK]

Bill et.al.,

The Henry Ford have responded that they only have production cards for 1939-1948. Since my engine is 1938 they only have "production ledgers that may show either the production date or shipping date". The cost of a search is $35, but if it only shows a date that doesn't help much. Before sending $35 across the Atlantic, Do you happen to know whether the ledgers normally show information other than a date - like car type?

Thanks,

Mike

[peecher]

Mike, just out of curiosity, what is the number stamped on the your gear box housing? Dee

[Guest imported_V12Bill]

Mike, Sorry the Henry Ford didn"t have more to offer. It would have been interesting to see how the sale of an engine and transmission to an independent producer of cars was recorded on the factory books.

Bill

[Guest imported_MikeWilliamsUK]

The number is H47116. Think I'll send my $35 anyway and see what comes back!

Mike

[Rolf]

Good idea Mike, that is definitely a early-middle 1938 number, and it will be interesting if they say it is an export engine or what, keep us up-dated as to what you find out, Rolf

[K8096]

Seems odd that at The Henry Ford Museum they told you that only production cards from 1939 & newer exist. They had the card for my 1937 K Lincoln about 5 years ago. We went up in person, and it took the clerk a long time to find it. He kept saying all the serial numbers on the cards began with "H" (ie: Zephyrs) We told him to keep looking and eventually he found the K series cards. If you go in person, they charge $10 per copy.

[Guest imported_MikeWilliamsUK]

Yep, they actually said "We have Lincoln Production cards from 1939-1948 for numbers 86,200 to 182,129. Unfortunately we do not have the card for your vehicle. We do have a collection a various production ledgers that may show either the production date or shipping date for your vehicle. I don't believe the ledgers have any additional information such as location shipped"

But, I've sent my $35, so we will wait and see!

Mike

[Guest imported_MikeWilliamsUK]

The copy of my build sheet arrived today and poses more questions than it answers.

Remember this is a Jensen completed in UK in December 1938 for export to California and was the only Jensen fitted from new with the Zephyr engine. It was a left hand drive car, the clutch being operated by a Jensen-fitted cable. The engine number is on the top of the gearbox casing and clear. I can't find a number on the block, although I believe there should be one? The previous owner admitted that he wrecked the block whilst racing in 1953 and fitted another '38 motor from a scrap car. He says he didn't replace the gearbox and I think he is correct because it still has brackets welded to it by Jensen for their clutch cable and is apparently a right hand drive type with short stumpy stick coming out of the top just right of centre and the cover over the linkages on the side. The clutch operating lever is on the right.

Ford say my motor number #47116 was body #1238, a Left hand drive Sedan supplied to Long Beach on 11th December 1937. They also say that the number is not duplicated as there is not another #47116 listed in the right hand drive section of the archives.

Jensen already had a contact with Lincoln's UK (Chiswick) importers as the Jensen Brothers were photographed with Edsel Ford at the Lincoln offices in 1936, so I had assumed the engine would have been a spare Lincoln UK supplied from stock.

Is it possible that the archives are wrong? Could my gearbox be a left hand drive type afterall? Any ideas ... please?

Mike Williams

[peecher]

Mike, It appears that the transmission from the car delivered in December, 1937 ended up in your Jensen. The '38 (and '39)transmissions were all as you discribed. They all had the shift "stub" located on the forward right side of the transmission. The Zephyr cars had a long contorted lever attached to this stub that ended up near the steering wheel on the left hand drive cars. The engine has no serial numbers on it. Casting numbers on it may give a clue as to what year the engine is. What is the cylinder bore and does it have hydraulic tappets? Rolf has a good handle on part numbers and may be able to help. Dee

[Guest imported_MikeWilliamsUK]

Thanks Dee. My engine is definately a '38 with small bore and hydraulic tappets, plus '38 front mountings - in fact it is as one would expect from that engine number. I didn't realise that left and right hand gearboxes were the same that year. Are there no differences at all? I'll ask Colin Spong when I see him next, he's been extremely helpful so far.

That explains everything and, alas, probably means I will never know what engine number was originally fitted to my car, nor where it came from. It was a lot of work changing the Jensen clutch bits over - basically a large pair of brackets to hold the clutch cable - when they could have just used the original housing.

Mike

[Guest imported_MikeWilliamsUK]

Having spoken to the chap who owned my car from 1952 to 2002 he is adamant that he replaced the engine block himself, but retained all the original innards and gearbox. He is quite clear about this. I suppose it is possible that the gearbox had already been replaced by a previous owner, but I think this is unlikely.

Can anyone tell me whether there were any differences at all between left and right hand drive boxes in '38 model year? Anything at all?

Thanks,

Mike

[Guest imported_V12Bill]

Mike, Sorry your inquiries to the Henry Ford didn't result in more positive answers. Lets assume that the previous owner is correct in his assertions that he replaced the engine with another l938 engine. The engine has no markings that I am aware of to designate that it had a VIN number, although I did see a 42 engine that had a VIN stamped on the face of the deck, right side ,front just ahead of the cylinder head. I was told that some times replacement engines had the VIN put on by the dealership.

Since Ford records indicate that your VIN was assigned to a l938 four door Zephyr, do you think that Jensen obtained the engine from a late model wreck and had it shipped to them at a cost less than Ford would have charged for a new complete engine and transmission? It certainly would be more practical.

Bill

[Zephyrparts]

Hi- occasionally I read the forum and the struggle some of you folks go through to get answers.Sadly about fifty percent of the time the answers are wrong or misleading. I suppose thats just the way it has to be. Iwish I had the time to spend on the forum but I don't. I anwer about l500 ca,lls a year via telephone which takes alot of time. Here is some information about sublects raised in recent forum questions.As everybody seems to know, prduction cards were kept on all Lincoln production all hand written,using lots ofabreviations and agreat deal of information is included,.including serial no. body type and no.,color upholstery special options such as radio ,whitewall tires,columbia axle (usually abreviated as CAX) The shipping destination was normally noted It could be the factory Ford branch, e.g. SOMerville (MA), EDGewater (NJ),or sales, usually destined for advertising

sometimes the person who special ordered the car would be given e.g. Mr. E.Ford. or Mr.F. Wright The reaswon no records exist gor 1936-39 is because of afire in l957 ar the ford Rotunda building where the archives were being kept. The late 39-48 records survived becauser the had b een been removed for research. There werwe also kept ledger books for each body style, listed byu body number and for that particular year. For example model 74, 1939 convertible sedan, would sart with bodt number 1 and end with 301, the production of that type for that year only for years the Ford Archives denied that the ledgers existed (they had quite an attitude problem then} I was able to get information on my cars, and the Ishibashi RHD l936 8passanger sedan shipped to Japan only by getting a Ford employee to go there and and mildly brow beat them. Even then they woulnd not let us photograph them. There was a trmendous amount of information, no only about individual cars but information about production changes for examplewhen oil filter lines were changed from copper to steel. Those of you whop are looking to find serial numvbers stamped on your engine are going to be dissapointed In my fifty years experince with these cars ,Ihave never seen it but a customer once sent me a picture of a '41 block with a number stamped just above the right water pump. The confusion arises probably because Ford used the term Motor number and serial number inter changeablyas each motor waS COMPLETED its number (starting with H1 in l935 and ending with H183,000 something in l948) was stamped on the frame in two places and also on a boss on the transmission (gear box to our english freinds) It was not stamped on the engine bell housing. However 1946-48 engine blocks can be identified by the number 56H cast in raised letters. The metal stamped tag attached to each finished engine during the twenty our running period was discarded when the engine was installed. Mike Williams, the part list will identify parts that were only used on Left hand drive cars. Any thing not marked LHD will fit either RHD or LHD.