Paid $23.96 to have washer jug reattached. I feel ripped off!...

Bucent98 · May 11, 2004

I have a '98 Century and had the oil changed by a Buick dealer earlier today. So I'm waiting for the car and a serviceman comes and tells me I'm leaking washer fluid. Anyway I didn't have them fix it at the time. I go home and decide to take a look at it myself. I noticed a bolt that holds on the washer jug was missing. But the whole jug was loose so there had to be another bolt or so holding it on that was missing but couldn't see anything from underneath. So the rubber tube at the top of the bottle and this large rubber seal weren't aligned correctly. That was the leaking problem.

Don't know how two bolts can suddenly become missing on their own. This is what I'm thinking. I have had dishonest work done before many a time through the years, but some mechanics are tricky. They can make it look like an accident, etc. Or you can easily overlook something they did at an earlier time. But this incident was obvious and I think the mechanic that changed the oil did this, but can't prove it. It's done and I can't prove it. What I need are some of those tiny cameras that you can hide in various places where you need work done on your auto.

But I took the car back to the dealer to have the repair made thinking it wouldn't cost much and since it's difficult for me to get on the ground to see if I could do it myself I just decided to let them do it. But when I got the bill for $23.96 I was surprised. I went ahead and paid the cashier, but right after that I talked to the service manager. We went out to the car and looked at the repair. He told me there is a piece of plastic or some kind of guard in the way of the bottom bolt, so they had to remove that. I really don't know how much he knew about it though.

I was charged 3/10 of an hour labor ($79 hr.), or 18 minutes ($23.96) for the mechanic to do the job. So eighteen minutes to reattach the washer jug sounds like they must have done something else other than just replacing bolts.

Have you ever felt you were robbed or cheated on by dishonest crooks? Any comments? Thanks. BC98

May 12, 2004

Other than the question about how the bolts came to missing in the first place, it sounds like you were treated pretty fairly. In all, 18 minutes isn't long to do this job, when you consider: The mech has to look at the problem and see what needs to be done; walk to the parts counter to get the replacement parts; walk back; replace the bolts; check the work. Good chance he didn't even beat the book on the job.

Personally, I'm pleased to get out of the dealer's for less than $30.

On the bright side, you didn't have to do it and the washer's working correctly.

Cheers,

JMC

May 12, 2004

that was probably a dealer???? you are just lucky they did'nt try to sell u a new washer system, fender to mount it to and the pait work for the new fender as well as maybe a new rear axle and set of valve covers or something. I've heard people over the years bad mouth banks, brokers and lawyers. They are but babes in the woods compared to the new car dealers. $79/hour????? Lets see. its probably a 50/50 or 60/40 split on the labour. Mechanic (OH excuse me i mean automotive technician) gets to 40% and the dealer gets 60%. Back in the 70's and the 80's the dealers would comp something like that to A GOOD customer. Not any more.

WHY DIDN"T YOU fix it yourself????? It was only a loose screw?????

Here, try this: www.yourjobisgoingtoindia.com

May 12, 2004

someone wrote:

"The mech has to look at the problem and see what needs to be done; walk to the parts counter to get the replacement parts; walk back; replace the bolts; check the work. Good chance he didn't even beat the book on the job."

NO, the mechanic probably reached over on the bench or in his pocket and grabbed a bolt that was laying around close enuf to fit and drove it in with an impact wrench. OR he took a similar bolt out of something else on the car that already had 4 bolts in it and used that.

18 minutes???? Unless things have changed over the last 15 years or so the FR manual does NOT cover ANYTHING except the actual R&R of parts. The Corvair only paid about 3 times that for R&R clutch. The 18 minutes was probably for R&R entire washer system and wiper motor.

There has been plenty of things i've been ripped off for over years. Thats life! BUT vigilance is a virtue too.

JohnD1956 · May 12, 2004

When my wifes 93 Regal was 30K old, I had to take the car back to the dealer for something ( can't remember what) but at the time I thought I'll price the sparkplug replacement. The service guy said something like $40.00. I was lazy and said okay, go ahead.

When we went back to pick the car up the bill was $70.00. I was madder than heck over this. I asked why? The guy said something about a tight fit and lifting the motor to do the job. I said Bull S--t! Thats the 3800, not the 3100 which does need the motor lifted for that job.

HE said well they lifted the motor anyway. I asked why they didn't call me, because for $70.00 I would have reached in there and done the job myself, as I could see there is no way the motor had to be lifted.

They tried to appease me without changing the bill. Tossed in a few car washes and an oil change, but never went back. The bum went OOB a few years later anyway. And I've changed those plugs two times since and never touched a motor mount. Every dealer I've ever had to work with has been much less than customer friendly and unconcerned with customer satisfaction.

decembro · May 12, 2004

Sorry guys, but nobody gets a 50/50 split anymore, and 60/40 is pretty rare. Out of the $23 the dealership made, the technician probably got about$6-7. The washer bottle IS a bear to get to. The car either has to go up in the air (which takes time) or the tech has to slide under it with a creeper and work with dirt, road salt, etc falling in his eyes. Rarely can you leave a dealership (or any repair facility) THESE days for under $100. By the way, did you ever think the screws could be loose from the factory? Sometimes it takes awhile for things to rattle completely loose. Maybe another job was done at another time when the screws weren't tightened properly. In the last 30 years I've been working on cars, I've seen a lot of weird stuff happen.

Idle Swede · May 12, 2004

To have someone crawl under my car and do "anything" for 20 some bucks, (tax included) I consider "dirt cheap"

May 12, 2004

I have had my Park Avenue serviced at the same Westfield, NJ

Buick dealership since I purchased it new there in 1995.

I have always been 100 percent satisfied. It is still a family

owned, independent dealer and sells Buicks only. They have always been

fair and honest, and they provide a free loaner car to their regular

customers. I know this is rare in this day of multi-make dealers, but

they seem to thrive on referral business because they do very little

advertising. I don't know if I can name the dealer, but anyone in the

area probably knows who they are.

dennis passan · May 12, 2004

thanks for that reality check decembro-

it truely is amazing how much something can get out of sorts, not that im a dealership friendly guy, i'll be the first to one to look at an try to fix a problem myself, "if" i could.but what if one wire fell out of your computer, and it relatively took the same amount of time? would you have justified the 23.96 then?? you would not have been able to figure that one out!

so let's say the technician was under the hood and spotted this washer problem and notified you, you could have asked what it would take, and then - do it yourself!....then, by the time you went to the parts department, and paid for the part, ( $$$ expensive) then got the car home, and the hood up, and you under the car trying to put those ,one or two bolts in! (swearing is optional)

think about that next time, and the fact that nothing is as inexpensive as it use to be, and after you have struggled with these 2 little washer bolts- then you will understand what's its about, and for those that just dont know how to handle mechanical things we are at the mercy of those that do, so atleast refrain from describing how easy the job is, and how outrageous the cost!

remember one thing your the one that doesn't know what the mechanical systems are all about, so dont go making assumptions about how easy it is, or how a screw was picked up and cross threaded into position! phew! i mean come on folks!!

May 12, 2004

I will add that no one works on my 72 Monte Carlo except me, but

I will not even attempt to diagnose or repair a problem with the complex

computer controlled systems in new cars.

As with any trade, there are good and bad. If you find someone good,

stick with them.

Ron Green · May 12, 2004

I have 2 screws on my 72 Corvette console that will easily waste 40 minutes of your time trying to tighten them up unless your name is Harry Houdini. The first time took 1 1/2 hours and I consider myself pretty good with the wrenches.

Bucent98 · May 12, 2004

On being charged that $23.96, I'm pretty much over that now. I had called back the serviceman back that evening to discuss more about the charges. He said they usually never charge less than half hour for any job, so maybe I was fortunate there, but at the same time they should consider the job. I'm over it.

But still what bothers me a little is how those two screws became missing. It's true that I don't know when they were missing. Were they loose to begin with? The H.P. can only answer that one and He won't talk to me about it anyway.

PackardV8, I'm not limber like I used to be (arthritic), and didn't have a clue about where that second screw was. Plus I've gotten a little more lazy latter in years, but mainly the RA affects me the most.

I see your point and I thought later (after I had gotten home to look at it myself) that if I had them fix it right after they had changed my oil, the serviceman could have come back and told me the washer jug itself was busted. So how much more for that jug? Probably a good chunck. He also tried to sell me the 30K mile maintenance so and so for $400+. He gave me a list of what all they do. I'm not going to pay that kind of money and can't afford it anyway. I get things repaired or taken care of when I've got the money.

Btw, my '98 does have less than 38K and I've already replaced tires due to dry rot. I was out driving one day and noticed the car pulling to the left. I get out and hear it leaking air from the SIDE WALL. I could see a hole there. Air filters replaced. Serpentine belt is replaced. New battery. Had radiator flushed. Even with the low miles, the car is 6 years old and I'll need to service transmission soon. I think my manual says every 60K miles or 6 years. I might be wrong on that. I'll check it.

JohnD1956 or anyone. You talked about having the plugs changed in your wife's '93 Regal and that they said they had to lift the engine. I have the 3.1. Will they have to lift my engine to replace the plugs? What a bummer if they do. How much will that set me back? I've tried taking a look back there and can't see how I could do it myslef. Just wondered. Plugs will last for how long? 60K or 100K? I'd have to check the service manual. Yeh it's a good idea to know some of this stuff before you take it somewhere. Things have happened to me too. Live and learn.

Greg72monte, Nice Carlo! How much is your's worth these days? I used to work on older cars myself and bitchin was mandatory on those harder fixes like Dennis Passan mentioned earlier. Some fixes are a pain. Not in any order, I've owed a '57 Chevy Bel-Air, '67 Chevelle Malibu, '71 and '72 Grand Prix's, '72 Chevy El Camino, '76 Chevy Malibu, '77 Grand Prix, '78 and '79 Cutlass's. I've had a lot more cars than that, but the computers started kickin' in as you know. Then I just about stopped there, but still did what I could do. The easy stuff.

And everyone else. Nice to hear your stories and input. Good luck! BC98

decembro · May 12, 2004

All the plugs are accessible on your engine without any jacking of the engine. You should be able to have it done at a reasonable price. (This is not a Jag or some other high priced tuneup).HOWEVER, what is reasonable to you, and what is reasonable based on the market may be two different things. I recommend that you make sure you are comparing apples to apples (definition of a tuneup varies depending on who you talk to and what your needs are). Shop around. Get a quote from a local independent garage with a GOOD reputation (see me if you're in Michigan!) and compare it to the dealer and maybe just for grins price a tuneup shop (but don't go there for the work, just the quote). Armed with that, choose the place you want to do business. It doesn't hurt if you have an ASE certified technician/mechanic do the work. Good luck to you.

Steve Lentz

JohnD1956 · May 13, 2004

Bucent, I'm not sure about a 3100 in a 98. 1997 was the year for the big body changes in the Regal line. I know the cars similar to the 93 needed the engine lifted when equiped with the 3100. But the 1997 and 1998 look like mich bigger cars. So you'd have to get someone elses advice on this.

But don't despair. I have a 95 Riviera with the Supercharged engine. I had to do the rear plugs from underneath because of all the coolan lines in the way from up on top. The easiest car I know of to do the plugs on is my 69 Electra. everything else seems o have some nuiance to tick one off. But I still love my BUICKS!!!!

May 13, 2004

someone wrote:

"Btw, my '98 does have less than 38K and I've already replaced tires due to dry rot. I was out driving one day and noticed ..."

What conditions is this car stored or driven????

I have an 89 Caprice that is probably one of the most pristene cars extant of any age or model (i rarely drive it, only on some very long distant trips). Always garage kept 34K original miles. The ONLY things i've replaced is fuel filter, intermediate pipe and muffler, regular lube service. The original FACTORY tires are still excellent. ( i run 35-38 pounds pressure religously).

The tires on your 98 should not have dry rotted in 6 years unless thery are subject to somekind of extreme conditions or maybe Buick used somekind of china-rican tires or something???

As for the transmission no maintneance should be done to it except fluid level checking (NOT CHANGING) on a regular basis. If the transmission works good and the fluid is clean then LEAVE IT ALONE and i dont care if it has a million miles on it.

Engine coolant,axle grease, trans fuilds (stick or auto) should ONLY be checked for correct level and quick visual inspection for contamination. Changing these fluids is nonsense and i have proven it to myself many many times with various models. If the vehicle is used under normal to slightly svere service there is no need to service these items unless they are giving trouble. i have an 88 ford ranger 160K miles with FACTORY installed coolant still in it other than what i have added over the last 15 years to bring up to level. I overhauled the engine in it 10K miles ago and put the original coolant back in it. Ditto for a 73 Chevy with 140K miles, 89 Caprice 34K miles, among many others in the past that i no longer own. Change the engine oil and filters every 2K to 4K miles leave the axle,trans and coolanat ALONE!!!

May 13, 2004

A comment about spark plug removal/replacement: sure, some plugs are good for 60,000 up to 100,000 miles. Problem is that they'll basically be welded into the block. Go ahead and (one at a time) loosen them while you're changing your oil, then tighten them back up properly. You'll fully appreciate this the first time you try to get out one of those 100,000 mile plugs.

Andy

Reatta Man · May 13, 2004

Kevin,

PackardV8 and I have disagreed before about preventive maintenance, so this will not be new ground for him.

With that said, I <span style="font-weight: bold">STRONGLY</span> disagree with him about preventive maintenance. He may respond and tell you how little maintenance he has done on his cars, but at best, his experience is the exception rather than the rule. It's sort of like saying my 98-year-old granfather has smoked all his life, so it is safe for everyone to smoke. Risky at best.

Change your transmission about every 25,000-35,000 miles if you do a lot of stop-and-go city driving, drive in dusty or hot weather, tow just about anything with your car, or if your car isn't driven very much. Modern transmissions are full of electronics and are made to work within very close tolerances. That means they do NOT work well when the fluid is dirty or full of varnish.

The one exception I have heard from many mechanics I trust is the car that has gone 100,000 miles without a fluid change. In that isolated incident, changing the fluid will often speed up a total failure since a fluid change introduces a lot of fresh detergents and other additives and will often dislodge varnish from the clutches and bands. For your situation, you are much better to get it changed regularly.

Change other things about 10-20% earlier than the book recommends. For example, if your manual says to change the serpentine belt at 60,000 miles, get it done at 55,000 miles. Keep in mind that you rely on this car to take you EVERYWHERE, day or night and in all kinds of weather. Getting stuck in the cold or rain, waiting an hour or longer for a tow and paying a $100+ tow bill that was caused by not replacing a $30 part is not worth the risk.

The one thing that many mechanics strongly disagree with GM about is leaving that DexCool antifreeze in your engine until you reach 100,000 miles. There is NO WAY you should leave that stuff in your engine that long. If you haven't changed it, do it now due to your car's age.

As for the cost of maintenance, dealerships are usually the highest places to get routine work done. You can find a good independent shop and save some money by looking for some clues and asking the right questions.

First, you should see the ASE sign prominently displayed near the front door or outside the building. Next, you should see lots of certificates for continued education by the shop's technicians hanging on the wall inside the shop. They should say things like GM Computer Diagnostics, Level I, II, III or IV or Transmission/Transaxle, or Engine Machinist. The shop should be clean, and I mean CLEAN. Look at the mechanic's toolboxes. Many of these guys have more invested in their tools than the cars they work on are worth. Ask the shop foreman what scanners they use. If they don't tell you that they have the specialized scanner with the cartridge for your car, they can't diagnose much more than a broken hose or a worn set of brakes these days.

If you want to find a certified shop near you, go to:

http://www.aseblueseal.org/businesses/index.asp

Good luck.

Joe

radionut98 · May 13, 2004

Speaking of getting reipped off at a dealer, I bought a 2000 Gmc

and at about 34000 miles took it in for oil change/grease etc..

The Tech came out and told me the rear u joint was bad and needed

to be replaced. So I said go ahead. The bill came to 140 bucks or

so. I asked the dealer if he would go half on parts and labor since

it only had 34 thou. No way he said the warrenty is over. I asked to

see the old part and the tech had already dumped it in the dumpster.

I paid the bill but wrote across it that I was very unhappy. (Not in

those particular words either)! Question to you guys, how long

should a u joint last?

May 13, 2004

Just for fun I checked an internet site that calculates inflation. $24 in 2002 (the most recent date accepted by the calculator) was worth $1.93 in 1940, $3.30 in 1950, $4.04 in 1960, $5.09 in 1970, $10.09 in 1980, and $17.22 in 1990. When viewed this way the $24 seems pretty reasonable to me. It's not so much that the dealer is overcharging as that we tend to remember the way things used to be and wish they stayed the same.

Bucent98 · May 13, 2004

Steve (decembro),

Thanks for the confirmation on the spark plug change out on my '98 Century. At least I won't have to worry about being charged for having the engine jacked when the time comes to have new plugs. With 38K miles and as little as I drive I'm in pretty good shape time wise anyway. A few years I would guess.

PackardV8 and Joe,

About the car needing new tires? I don't know where the previous owner parked the car. If it's not from being in the sun a lot or from age, I would say the tires were just cheap. And the Century must have used cheap tires or (china-rican as you mentioned) on their cars to cut down expense. I forgot the name brand at this time, but I'm using Dunlops now and would hope Buick is using better quality tires on their newer Century's now. I've had the car parked under a car port most of the time and currently do now. I've owned the car since September 2002. The car was driven very little by the previous owner. It had less than 24K when I bought it. Let's say that's over about 4.5 years. So yes the car sat a lot. I drive it more now, but only about 8-9K miles a year.

I don't how you did it PackardV8 with all your automobiles. I'm talking about never servicing the coolant/anti-freeze or tranny in them. You must have an angel riding around with you, but I do believe you though. About maintenance on my car, I'd rather play it safe and go closer to the book. I have to agree more with Joe on most of this. I drive in the city and it gets HOT down here in Texas. I'll probably service the transmission next month. Radiator was serviced earlier this week. I feel better about keeping up with these things too. I will say this about a tranny I had on a previous '78 Cutlass, I changed the fluid shortly after I bought it and shortly afterwards the transmission went out. So I understand what Joe meant about that.

Joe thanks for the extra tips you wrote up there. I bookmarked that web site you put in. Sounds like a sure safe bet and there are several near where I live. I have this gut feeling about that Buick dealer I went to recently. Plain and simple, I don't want to go back there again. After my last service I just don't feel safe using them now. It's not about those last charges, but how they came about. I'll be looking for a new shop.

Bucent98 · May 13, 2004

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Speaking of getting reipped off at a dealer, I bought a 2000 Gmc