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I am thinking of changing my oil on my 58 66r to 10w30. I have been using straight 30w but i like to run the car even in the cold.<BR>any idias or suggestions on this<BR>ed.

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30 weight non detergent for breakin on the 322- or any engine for that matter. Shell still makes it. Run it 500 or so miles, then change oil and filter and put in your choice of quality detergent oil. 10w30 is a good all purpose oil with a wide temperature range.<P>The last few years, I've used Shell Rotella 15w40 diesel oil in the toy cars. It has the highest API diesel service rating (CH4) and also surpasses the SJ rating for spark ignition engines. Diesel oil has more corrosion inhibitors and higher shear strength than most gasoline rated oils- two aspects I consider important for an engine that isn't driven daily and may go two months or longer without starting.

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Synthetic oil in my opinion is far better then regular oil in many ways. The heat and cold have no effect on it and during engine start-up there is less wear as it clings more to the metal and has more slip to it. I have heard that 90% of your engine wear is caused at start-up and warming up the engine.<P>If you ever take the valve covers off a engine that has been run on regular oil you will see brown residue that is the crap that is not refined when regular oil is made. No such thing with synthetic oils.<P>I have used synthetic oils with both old and new cars for years with excellent results even with a 46 year old engine that has never been apart yet and a daily driver that is 16 years old with 130,000 miles. The valve covers underneath look like they left the factory yesterday. Also forget the old wives tale that changing to a synthetic oil will cause your motor to leak. The current synthetic oils have a small amount of a swelling agent in it that will prevent leakage unlike when it first hit the market. And no I don't work for a oil company.

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Guest 70 Electra

Here we go again. It's no wonder some of the "old wives tales" still persist....<P>1. The Old Guy is "right on". Multi weight oils--in particular 10W30--are the best all-around choice of all cars, both new and old. <P>The modern formulations do not have the shortcomings that were associated with the very early multi-weights, and present day additive packages (formulated for new cars with 10,000 mile change intervals) are the better than ever! Take advantage of modern technology! It's one of the FEW areas where you can do it without having a visible non-authentic appearance to your classic car! <P>2. These days, non-detergent oil has NO purpose on any car. The possible exception is an engine full of muck and sludge, where you do NOT want to risk loosening the crud. <P>3. Non-detergent oil has NO place being used as a break-in oil. For break-in of a rebuilt engine, you should use a high quality oil of the appropriate viscosity (usually 10W30 is suitable).<P>4. Oils intended for diesel engines are specially formulated for the conditions in a diesel engine. These are different conditions, with different requirements, than in a gasoline engine. The finest diesel engine oil in the world is not as well suited for gasoline engines as is a high quality gas engine oil.<P>5. Synthetic oils have MANY advantages. Primarily, these are a greatly increased tolerance of HIGH temperatures, and an ability to not thicken as much at very cold temperatures. <P>However, just because an oil is synthetic does NOT mean it has lower friction or reduced wear. In fact, most high quality conventional oils (such as those used as factory fill by the Big 3) are lower in friction than the typical synthetic.<P>6. While synthetic oils offer a potential to extend the drain intervals, this is only for newer vehicles operated in "highway" conditions. Most of our collector cars quickly contaminate oil due to short trips/infrequent use, fuel dilution from cold engines/rich fuel mixtures, blow-by, cold oil temps due to low temp thermostats, etc.<P>7. Thrown in for good measure: As I've mentioned in other threads, avoid the use of multi-weight oils with very broad viscosity ranges. In particular, avoid 10W40. I know many hobbyists use it regularly, without problems, but that's a testimony to the light duty service our cars see---not to the robustness of 10W40).<P>Why? In simplified terms, there are too many viscosity modifying additives used to make an oil span the viscosity range of a 10W40. Note that no OE automakers recommend a 10W40, and GM has even issued service bulletins in the past that warn of voiding warranty coverage if 10W40 is used. (Why would they do that if there wasn't a problem?)<P><BR>Final advice in a nutshell?<BR> <BR>**Buy fresh bottles (to get newest formulations) of a NAME BRAND 10W30 oil. <P>**Change it often (and dispose of it properly). <P>**Quality synthetics (like Mobil 1) are fine, but usually a waste of money for the light-duty service and frequent oil changes of a collector car. Stay away from off-brand synthetics.<P>**Don't use any additives--everything you need is in the oil. Stay away from teflon miracle products and other snake oils. Don't listen to, or believe the outrageous claims on info-mercials. Remember that just because a product is painted on the side of a NASCAR racer, it only means the company pays the bills---not that the product is any good!<P><BR>I don't mean to cause offense to anyone, but am frustrated by seeing the same mis-information on oil over and over again. Please take this advice in the helpful spirit in which it is intended.

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As stated above my comments are only my opinion however that opinion was based on the oil seminar I attended at last years AACA Annual Meeting of which was very interesting and presented by a very knowledgeable guy.<P>He stated that non synthetic oils will leave a brown residue under your valve covers and in your oil pan due to the fact that this was the by product of the refining process that takes place with regular oil. I have also seen this first hand on old motors. Is this a good thing? He claimed that he tore a motor apart that had 160,000 miles with 10,000 mile synthetic oil changes and the motor was factory clean. The use of a synthetic verus a regular oil should be a no brainer, again only my opinion.<P>You will get many different opinions on this subject however it has always been hard for me to understand why someone will spend thousands of dollars on a vehicles restoration and short cut the use of a synthetic oil that is proven to be better all for saving $20? wink.gif" border="0

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70 Electra- I take issue with your claims on diesel rated oil. Re-read my post carefully- THE ROTELLA SURPASSES API SJ RATING FOR SPARK IGNITION ENGINES. Maybe even SL by now. That is all I need to tell me it won't bother a thing in my 455s. With 60k on one rebuild the rocker areas are perfectly clean using this oil, no sludge buildup, no discoloration. No annoying lifter clack on startup and no oil consumption on 2000 mile change intervals using AC filters.<P>Other engines that have been changed from gasoline rated oil to the Rotella have exhibited similar characteristics. Oil consumption has reduced by half or better on all and startup lifter noise is nonexistent.<P>You're right. Diesel formulations are different. Much more suited to severe duty, which is what ALL collector cars see. RPM ranges? Baloney. Anti-scuff and anti-corrosion additives? Yes. Roughly the same additive package one finds in racing oil.<P>Additives? Many are snake oil. Others are good, notably Marvel Mystery Oil and Rislone (which was sold for years in a GM can as<BR>"Super High Detergent Oil Additive").<P>I was taught in tech school (by a former General Motors field rep) to use a single weight non-detergent oil for initial breakin as the detergent additives tend to plate out and interfere with ring seating. That concept has worked for me for 26 years and I've never had an oil related engine failure. I've known engines that were broken in on 10w30 detergent oil as you suggest and took several thousand miles to fully seat the rings.<P>An oil engineer might be able to convince me otherwise, but for now this works for me.

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wow.....i have received alot of information about oil that i did not know.thanks to all! i do alot of highway driving with my buick (very little in town stop and go, unless we do the woodward ave. dream cruse) and with this in mind it would be ok to switch to mobil 1 senthetic oil, that is if i am understanding all this.<BR>again thanks to all<BR>ed<BR>bca#31941<BR>clio mi.

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DONT EVEN THINK ABOUT NON-DETERGENT OIL !!! Use a good $1.50 - #2.00 oil with current new car specs. The avrerage non-detergent oil as well as cheap oil or reclaimed oil has little or no ZINC-DIALKYL DITHIOPHOSPHATE in it,and you would wipe out your camshaft in a couple miles.This is experience talking !!!

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Cammam, go ahead and switch to synthetic oil. It does not matter that you have been using a regular oil. There is a reason that some of the vehicle manufactures are switching to synthetic oils such as the Corvette, etc. Do you think for one minute that GM would spent a extra million dollars (50,000 cars x $20 for synthetic) if they didn't think it was necessary or worth it?

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Guest 70 Electra

Ron,<BR>I will concede your point that a synthetic oil has several advantages. I will further concede that it can do no harm and in this regard you could possibly justify the added expense.<P>HOWEVER, from an academic standpoint, I will repeat that for virtually all applications, it is unecessary. That, to use your logic, is EXACTLY why it is NOT in more new cars.<P>Does the use a collector car receives qualify as severe? With respect to contamination, the answer is YES. The collector car often has short trips (in-out of garage), often has low temp thermostats (prevents oil from warming up above 200F), and is usually plagued by blowby contamination and rich (pre-emission era) fuel mixtures. The solution to these problems is NOT synthetic oil, but rather a frequent change interval. Synthetic oil, for all its advantages, does not "prevent" contamination.<P>With respect to ambient temperature conditions, the collector car does NOT qualify for "severe" service. Do you start and drive your cherished classic at temperatures below freezing? Probably not often. How about below zero? THAT's where the synthetic oil offers a big advantage. <P>How about operating under ambients and/or driving conditions where oil temps are above 300 degrees F? Unless you've overheated your car, this is hard to do in a classic. Yet many of today's trucks and performance cars can achieve these temperatures. HERE is where a synthetic oil offers a major advantage, since regular oils break down quickly above 300F.<P>In a nutshell, using synthetic oil in a classic car, under normal circumstances, is analogous to using premium grade fuel in a car that is designed and tuned to use regular: It causes no problems, but is a waste of money. If it gives you a warm and fuzzy feeling to buy "only the best" (whether you can benefit from it or not), then more power to you. Just don't try to convince others that they are being cheap, and missing out on the advantages of synthetic oil.<P>With regards to new GM cars, the Corvette has used Mobil 1 as a factory fill since 1992. Why? It's no coincidence that starting in 1992, there is NO engine oil cooler available on the Corvette--either as standard or optional equipment. Surprise!<P>When developing this package, we (yes, I was involved)determined that for the few times the oil exceeded our temperature requirements, we could save HUGE money by eliminating the weight, cost, & packaging headaches of an oil cooler and simply use an oil capable of withstanding extreme oil temperatures. Because the Mobil people were VERY interested in the promotional aspects of the concept, GM struck a very lucrative pricing deal for the use of Mobil 1 as the "exclusive" factory fill for the Corvette (remember all the advertisements?). In other words, it ain't $20 per car! (You didn't think synthetic oil REALLY costs the oil companies 4 times more to make, did you? It's priced like it is, because that's what the market will bear!)<P>I have the greatest respect for capability of a high quality synthetic like Mobil 1. I have personally viewed torn-down Corvette engines that had over 100,000 miles at 100mph (on chassis dyno). They did, indeed, look just like new inside and wear was negligible. In fact, if I was going to drive my 1970 Buick under those conditions, I would choose to use Mobil 1. However, I don't drive like that. <P>Regarding your closing comments about how "an oil engineer might change your mind...." Well, my comments are closer to that than you may have imagined. Let me explain..... In my "day" job as a Powertrain engineer at GM, it happens that one of my "lunch buddies" is THE oil expert for the corporation. Since he has his own classic cars, we've enjoyed many spirited lubrication discussions! While the actual wording in this post and my prior post are my own, they paraphrase his position as an industry-recognized expert. As Ripley says...."Believe it, or Not"<p>[ 01-18-2002: Message edited by: 70 Electra ]

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