The Rod / Original Debate

[CBoz]

Ok, rather than talk about hypothetical cars, here's a good one to consider:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayIS...bayphotohosting

What do *you* think should be done with it? Back to stock / "restorod" / wild custom? (PS -- it already looks like someone has rolled it down a hill, set it on fire, taken a sledgehammer to it, then dropped it in the lake, so you need to come up with something different than those )

But gosh darn, those beautiful wheels don't come with the car

[Guest imported_V12Bill]

Cecil, That $400,000. 38 Lincoln that Barret Jackson sold has stirred the money jucies in a lot of people. I see that his reserve has been met. I am reminded of the scene in the movie "Grease" where the guys were in shop class looking over a post war Ford convertible and all the things they could do to it. When the song was over the car was still the rusted out beat up old car that it started out as and never approached the status it reached in their dreams. Unfortunatly too many cars never reach dream status.

Bill

[ricko]

well it would be and act of love for stock, here is a gold book quote and at $6000 start that doesnt leave much left.

1937 LINCOLN Zephyr Dsp/HP Eng Fair Good Exc Show

COUPE 3P 267/110 V1213,500 18,000 27,000 33,000

[CBoz]

Which just goes to show that the gold book is about as up-to-date as elephant pants. I'll buy all the excellent / show cars they have at those prices

Seriously, for this car, it may be way past restoring back to original. But I wouldn't mind seeing some effort to keep the original lines, even though the drivetrain would be updated.

[JimNap]

Guys:

I wouldn't exactly give up on this great classic just yet. I've seen worse brought back from the grave to near pristine condition.

My own 37 coupe is nearly identical in condition, still awaiting a full teardown after I bought it 3 years ago (spent time building the garage and house remodeling first).

As the attached photo will show, she's a little rough, but quite solid except for the usual places...floorpans, tail, underside of doors, etc. But I fully intend to bring her back to original condition.

I just hope the high bidder and the eventual winner plans to do the same and not chase a "me-too" $400k wannabe dream.

I may be wrong, but my feeling is that eventually, people will begin to realize how ridiculously overpriced these customs are and the originals are what will hold their value. Anyone with decent skills can fab up a halfway decent rod - only a select few are willing to chase down those elusive HB parts for their 37's, etc!

3 years ago, I bought mine after it was advertised on the LZOC site for just under $4k. I wouldn't think of taking less than 10 for it now. Maybe I'm out of line on "current" or Gold Book value, but as CBoz pointed out, since when have those prices reflected current market? I think a number of things have helped the Zephyr's popularity in recent months/years (as I mentioned in my 2006 Zephyr posting) to jsutify these new prices, but it would still take an awful lot for me to consider parting with my 37 coupe!

And btw, yes she looks like shes about to fall apart in the pic, but that's because she is (apart that is). The previous owners had already unbolted major body parts (fenders, hoods) and interior pieces (seat frames), proping them up for display in the sale photo attached. Car was pictured in Moses Lake, WA where it was purchased. Car now comfortably resides in a temperature controlled, insulated garage outside Detroit, MI where she was born and will undergo her rebirth (god willing!)

Jim N.

[CBoz]

Jim -

I think you should get out of it while you can, and being the unselfish, helpful person I am, I'd be willing to take over your project for what you have in it ( ). So when can I bring the truck by?

I think you're dead-on with regard to original cars and the current run-up of streetrods. I was at the Charlotte Autofair a couple weeks ago, and *not one* of the 32-40 Fords I saw was correct -- and I mean, obvious things, such as louvered hoods, cheapo chrome air cleaners, etc. etc. Ditto for every one of the 55-57 Chevys.

So we have reached the ironic position where the best way to have a distinctive car is to restore it to original. Crazy!

BTW, Jim -- your car looks *alot* better to me than the one in that auction!

[CBoz]

I should add that the Ford flatheads and 55-57 Chevys at Charlotte Autofair that I was referring to were in the *AACA show*, which advocates originality. If they had been in the separate hotrod part of the show, I would have understood.

Ah well....

[Guest imported_Fiesta]

I totally agree with V12Bill, the $400,000 Zephyr that Barrett Jackson sold definitely had an effect on the appreciation of this car. I've seen 1 Zephyr custom at a meet in Daytona, FL and it didn't really impress me. The Zephyr from Barrett Jackson was a nice work of art, still when it comes to customs I prefer the Mercury?s.

With this car I would go custom, but if it was complete and a better shape definitely stock.

[imported_Phil Knapp]

Here's a quote from the builder of the $400,000 '38 Zephyr coupe, extracted from page 5 (or 6) of this forum (before the Barrett-Jackson Auction).

"The Coupe we did a couple of years ago that won 'America's Most Beautiful Street Rod' was sold and the new owner can't find the VIN# to get it registered. It is going to be sold at the Barret-Jackson Auction in January. It will be interesting to see what it brings. Rolph, you wouldn't have wanted this car anyway as it looked like it had been laying in a lake bottom. It had rust holes through the roof. The floor was totally gone. We called it the 'collander' it had so many rust holes. I promise I won't cut up any good Zephyrs."

The current e-bay '39 Zephyr MIGHT be slightly better, but it's still Street Rod material in my book, unless somebody wants to spend WAY more than it would be worth as a restored car.

Street Rods are a LOT of fun. I really enjoyed my '39 Ford Standard coupe with all late model Ford driveline. Too bad I had to sell it (AND my restored '39 Ford convertible) to pay for my '39 Zephyr!

[48LCCOUPE]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I may be wrong, but my feeling is that eventually, people will begin to realize how ridiculously overpriced these customs are and the originals are what will hold their value. Anyone with decent skills can fab up a halfway decent rod - only a select few are willing to chase down those elusive HB parts for their 37's, etc!...........JimNap

</div></div>

Everyone has an opinion but I believe it takes more than "Anyone with decent skills" to pull off the Barrett Jackson 400K car, or even as you say, a half decent rod. I have done both and both are taxing to the same degree only different . By the way, that car(400K) was, I believe from a guy in Seattle, the ebay car is in Portland and Jims' from Moses Lake WA. are they all in the Northwest? Mybe I should have stayed in Portland....nah .

I am a hotrod / streetrod guy. They aren't supposed to be correct.

The lean now is to restorod, semi-correct from 20 feet with all the luxuries, power and comforts of the millenium.

The Barrett Jackson was a HUGE twist, an obvious custom (streetrod), keeping the lines and beauty of the original (restorod), all the comforts (resto), and a V12 - again semi-original, at least it was still a 12 cylinder with valves in block.

As a streetrodder I am now restoring the 48 LC. It was a basket but all there. It would have been a great cantidate for a resto rod (big block ford, a/c, tilt. cruise, stereo, dvd...... but it was all there). Had to rebuild the V12, rewire the car, am going to fight with the od tranny wiring and hyd windows but I owe it to the car.

The ebay car is already overpriced at the bid shown in my opinion.

The car is past being owed anything, it needs massive transplants but don't chop or dice it, restorod it and cruise those beautiful lines down the interstate listening to the tunes and enjoying the climate control. When asked what it is, the answer won't be a 460, auto, airbag,etc. the answer will be its a Zephyr, and they don't make em that gorgeous any more.

Just my opinions, I could be wrong.

[Keith L.]

I suppose the problem I have with resto rods is very seldom are they done nicely, The new electric buttons , air condition units, bucket seats etc. never seen quite belong with the style of the time the car was made. Its just to easy to use the big black plastic air vents that come with the air conditioning unit than to fabricate nice art deco vents for the dash. Plus now the restro rod is stuck in a "time warp" of 2004, kinda like the resto rods of a few years back with quad headlights, only now we have 17' rims. Yikes!

I think the ratio to rods vs. original is about 99% to 1%. Maybe even less. That $400,000 carrot is just too tempting.

It's gonna take a good cheap donor Zephyr sedan, plus lots of moola to bring this baby back to life.

[ricko]

Well this has been beat fairly hard but what actually is the car worth restored, not what we would want restored but what the market would pay???

My wife promised me she would dress me up in a nice dress and take me out in my 42 when i lose my mind, but how would I know and would I care.ie i wont sell.

[48LCCOUPE]

Keith, I'm afraid I must agree with what you say. Some of the resto rods have great thought and detail put in them and then Wham! off the shelve, a/c or radio shack stuff.

20 years ago a stock was worth twice a rod, then it reversed. Will probably continue to change. Either way, I'm just glad they aren't being crushed, then someone in the future can reverse a rod to a restored and vice versa visa versacee veecee bothcha