BOSS302 Posted November 25, 2003 Share Posted November 25, 2003 I HAVE A 1970 FORD MUSTANG BOSS 302 THAT HAS RECEIVED IT?S FIRST JUNIOR IN CLASS 34b. I?M HAVE BEEN TOLD THAT NOW THE CAR WILL BE IN THE NEW CLASS 36d. AND THAT THERE WERE BOSS 302 CARS AT HERSHEY IS THIS NEW CLASS. IS THIS TRUE, AND IF IT IS WILL I HAVE TO GET MY FIRST JUNIOR AGAIN OR CAN I GO FOR MY SENIOR IN THE NEW CLASS. WERE THINKING OF GOING TO THE NATIONAL MEET IN FLORIDA THIS SPRING Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaveBerg Posted November 26, 2003 Share Posted November 26, 2003 First thing: Your First Junior Award is yours and remains with your car forever or unless you would choose to recycle the vehicle after 10 years has passed. Should you go in the high performance class you would compete for the Senior Award just as if you had won the First Junior in that class. Originally the high performance classes were optional because not many people knew about them. Quite honestly I do not know whether or not they have been made mandatory for certain vehicles or not. You could write to the Vice President Class Judging, Russ Fisher to find out for sure. Hope this is helpful to you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DizzyDale Posted November 26, 2003 Share Posted November 26, 2003 Dear Boss302,Please post a photo of your car on the AACA photo forum.I had one in my youth,competition orange,all the spoilers,no shaker hood.Great car above 4,000rpm.diz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1937hd45 Posted November 26, 2003 Share Posted November 26, 2003 Dave, I'm wondering if there is some type of system in place to screen the cars in this new class 36B before they hit the show field? I would think there is more to it than swappin hoods, screwing on a spoiler and being sure the decals are on straight. Will the cars be documented like class 24A&B? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaveBerg Posted November 26, 2003 Share Posted November 26, 2003 I am unaware of any documentation requirements. Though I suspect that AACA has a number of pretty sharp Mustang people as in this instance and they would quickly bring any fraudulent vehicles to the attention of the right people. Sorry I couldnt be of greater help here. I was up to snuff on these classes when they first started but I suspect a lot has changed since. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1937hd45 Posted November 27, 2003 Share Posted November 27, 2003 I can see this class turning into a can of worms for AACA. The guy with the big buck muscle car getting beat by some six cylinder Chevy that someone droped a big block in and screwd on some SS trim. Don't look at me for help, I'm stll into pre 1940 stuff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted November 27, 2003 Share Posted November 27, 2003 Bob ~ The only thing that will make this right is when we get a VP Class Judging with some real solid AACA judging experience, not one with a lot of credits acquired in the administration office. It's kind of like the automobile industry, bean counters running the show do not make for good product. What we need is active leadership at the top of the judging system and not the absentee management that we have had recently. But of course that is just my prejudiced opinion. hvs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nearchoclatetown Posted November 27, 2003 Share Posted November 27, 2003 Ouch!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted November 27, 2003 Share Posted November 27, 2003 They deem him their worst enemy who tells them the truth. -- Plato Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1937hd45 Posted November 27, 2003 Share Posted November 27, 2003 We have met the enemy, and he is us. Pogo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nearchoclatetown Posted November 27, 2003 Share Posted November 27, 2003 Ok, riddle, me this Batman, I mean Howard. Why would this car, a Boss 302, be in class 36? Reading class 36 it's sounds like it's for tuner cars like Shelbys or Roush Mustangs[ when they get old enough]. A Boss is a production car, shouldn't it be in the production car class. I understand it's high performance,but it's still a production car. Or is this another thing I don't understand about AACA? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted November 27, 2003 Share Posted November 27, 2003 choc ~ Those cars are out of my league. I don't know nuthin about them. I'm basically an <span style="font-weight: bold">OLD</span> car guy and have never developed an interest in the newer stuff. Nothing against them, but they just don't grab me.Perhaps the Vice President - Class Judging could answer your question. After all, it is he and his committee that make the rules and set the classes. Shall we wait for his response. After all, he should be monitoring this thread. It's his department.hvs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1937hd45 Posted November 28, 2003 Share Posted November 28, 2003 Check out the list 36A,36B,36C,36D,and 36E! What does a car have to do to qualify to gain entry in these classes? Will the factory dual exhaust option and a decal package, get you in or do you need the factory build sheet with EVERY high preformance option, AND proof that it left the factoy as a HI-PRO car? Is there a certificaion committee as in classes 24 A&B to weed out FAKES??? A lot of loud mouths bitched about class 37, this is a far bigger problem than that could have ever been, factories are building repop parts to massproduce FAKE high preformance lookalikes. Winnng an AACA National First with a FAKE sure will help certify its valve at the next big buck auction. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Olds 442 Posted November 28, 2003 Share Posted November 28, 2003 I can only speak in regards to my own car. I'm in 36b and have won my senior at Hershey this year.When it comes to Oldsmobile's 442's the vin # will tell you if it is real or not.I can't say if the judges are aware of that or not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1937hd45 Posted November 28, 2003 Share Posted November 28, 2003 Olds 442, How would you feel if a made up car tied or beat you at an AACA event? If the made up car sold for more that your car is worth does that cheapen the AACA judging? Who determined that your car fit in class 36? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Olds 442 Posted November 28, 2003 Share Posted November 28, 2003 First, I wouldn't like it if a made up car beat me.Secondly I determined that my car would be in 36b because I got a copy of the judging manuel and checked the classes.The real problem is that as far as I know NO JUDGE checked the vin# To make sure it was a REAL 442. I know that the vin can be changed but it is only one way to identify a real car.When I registered for the show no one questioned the car.Maybe that is where it should all start. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D Binger Posted November 28, 2003 Share Posted November 28, 2003 442,You are right - - - things should start with a judging commette that is on the ball about this and not just worried about how many judging credits they have. If we don't watch it, the whole thing could become a laugher in the hobby.Dan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1937hd45 Posted November 28, 2003 Share Posted November 28, 2003 Olds 442, My main interest in AACA judging is class 24A&B, Race Cars.Years ago, a car of "questionable" provenance showed up at Hershey,most people in the know knew that the ORIGINAL car had burned to the ground years ago. It was allowed to be shown, but did not win. This is what lead to the formation of the Race Car Certification Committee, and the system of getting a vehicle approved long before it hits the how field. The ease of creating fake class 36 cars is far greater and the financial rewards far greater than class 24. AACA needs to get something in place to prevent the club from awarding fakes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted November 28, 2003 Share Posted November 28, 2003 Bob ~ The judges sank that submarine. I was either Team Captain or Depity, I believe. ~ hvs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rodlars Posted November 30, 2003 Share Posted November 30, 2003 According to what was posted on another thread I remeber reading, the AACA rules do not prohibit the entry of clone cars at a national event. As long as it is equipped as per factory specifications, it is okay. Serial numbers and codes are not checked/verified. Conceivably, someone can take a 318 Barracuda convertible, restore it as a Hemi equiped car and win an AACA first. There is really nothing to be gained financially from this as just about any buyer who isn't living under a rock can tell a clone from the genuine article so an AACA tab will hold zero sway (other than being a very well done clone, of course). As HD has mentioned, some sort of a pre-certification process would be required as there is simply not enough time to bring a cart load of reference books to the judging field and personally verify every car. Not to hijack the thread, but my biggest bone of contention with this class is that it is excessively "elitist". It includes only the very highest members of the musclecar food chain. For example, the Mopar group would eliminate all Mopars not equipped with the 426 Hemi or Max Wedge with the exception of the Daytonas/Superbirds, AAR/TA cars and the letter series 300 Chryslers. 383 Road Runners, 340 Swingers, 440 Cudas and such, need not apply. With the overall resurgence of the musclecar faction of the hobby, it was disappointing to see only a mere handful at Hershey this year. Of course there were a few legitimate musclecars scattered throughout class27, so it wasn't a total wash. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
66 Mystery Chevelle Posted December 1, 2003 Share Posted December 1, 2003 This has all the potential of actual Interesting topic. Now if we could just get a smidgin of that in that AACA magazine Got yet another one with nothing but OLD ANTIQUE Cars and stories of them...and folks wonder why the young people have a mindset of what AACA is. sorry, wrong place for my rant carry on...this is a topic worth discusing...but, I for one don't have issue with showing my MUSCLE CAR with a Clone...Quality of the resto is what counts, and that always shows, Clone or not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BOSS302 Posted December 1, 2003 Author Share Posted December 1, 2003 THANKS FOR ALL OF YOUR GREAT RESPONSES. I GUESS I'LL SIGN UP FOR THE WINTER MEET IN MELBOURNE,FL. IN CLASS 36d AND FIND OUT THE ANSWERE. SEE YOU THERE.I CAN'T POST A PIC BECAUSE I DON'T HAVE A DIGITAL CAMERA.AND FOR YOUR INFO ALL BOSS 302'S AND ONLY BOSS 302'S HAVE A "G" IN THE SERIAL NUMBER FOR THE ENGINE CODE. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Moskowitz Posted December 1, 2003 Share Posted December 1, 2003 Mystery, please do not despair! Your Editor and myself will be addressing your concerns in future issues of AA. Our task of appealing to everyone from the brass car guys to the late 70's is not an easy one. Howver, we think we have the basis to at least begin to fight the problem. It will not happen over night, but it will get done. Hey, who knows, you just might find an article about GTO's in the next issue! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
66 Mystery Chevelle Posted December 1, 2003 Share Posted December 1, 2003 <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> Hey, who knows, you just might find an article about GTO's in the next issue! </div></div> Okay, I'll hold on to the Baby and the Bath Water for now.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron Green Posted December 1, 2003 Share Posted December 1, 2003 rodlars, you mentioned another thread that had some postings regarding cloned vehicles and here are some of the comments posted on that thread by a judge. I see no safeguards or current rules from preventing this with the exception of the documented race car class.Quote:First clones are totally acceptable in AACA as along as they are how they "could" have come out of the factory. In AACA cars do not have to match the build sheet like they do at most "Brand" meets. Appearance is the major factor in AACA judging not the vehicle heritage. AACA is a simple "visual" judging, that is it. No looking up to see if # match. I have asked a lot of questions at judging schools and from I have been told. If power steering was available on your car it is acceptable, it doesn't make any difference if your exact car came with power steering or not. If a 283 was available in your car from the factory it is acceptable, it doesn't make any difference if your exact car came with a 283 or not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nearchoclatetown Posted December 1, 2003 Share Posted December 1, 2003 Doesn't this statement throw the "as- built" arguement right out the window? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
6219_Rules Posted December 1, 2003 Share Posted December 1, 2003 Post deleted by Randall A. McGrew Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rodlars Posted December 2, 2003 Share Posted December 2, 2003 I don't think this cloning thing is an entirely new phenoenom. When my dad was really into early V8 Fords, a common occurence was to take a boring old standard model and restore it as a deluxe. I am also sure there has been at least one fuel injected 57 Chevy convertible shown at Hershey that did not leave the factory as a 283/283 hp. At the Mopar Nationals, they have an OEM category of judging where every last component is checked for part #, date code, etc... It involves the use of a hoist and a couple of hours per car, so you can see where this is simply not practical under the time constraints of an AACA National Meet. I still think, as stated earlier, that a broadening of the muscle car categories to include all muscle cars would be a good thing. As far as I know, there is not a national organization for muscle cars in general. Everyone pretty much has to stick with their own brand-specific club for a national show. I think if the AACA were to expand the classes and market it as the nation's only national judging forum, it would go a long way to help with the whole "bringing in the next generation" issue. Recently, there have been two new muscle car magazines hit the market and it looks like there is life slowly being breathed back into the old Musclecar Review magazine. Obviously it is the current "hot" trend. If more legitimacy is desired to eliminate the attack of the clones, a simple VIN and data tag check would do it for most cars. No, you are not going to catch a well done rebody or a car that has had a slew of options added, but at least you would know that the Hemi Road Runner convertible you are looking at did not start life as a 318 powered Sport Satellite convertible. Perhaps it is as simple as adding a 5th member to the judging team, armed with a cheat sheet of engine and body style codes. Just a little food for thought, now that the turkey hangover has run its course.Rod Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted December 2, 2003 Share Posted December 2, 2003 Where oh where has our Vice President of Judging gone.Oh where, oh where can he be? Randall, I'm afraid that there is a bunch of misinformation in the opening part of your last post. You are way off on your statement as to what vehicles AACA supports. Time to go back to the books for further study.hvs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
6219_Rules Posted December 2, 2003 Share Posted December 2, 2003 Sorry. You are right. Ignore the man behind the curtain!! <img src="http://www.aaca.org/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> <img src="http://www.aaca.org/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" /> <img src="http://www.aaca.org/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron Green Posted December 2, 2003 Share Posted December 2, 2003 rodlars, good comments. The only problem I can see by adding the 5th member to the judging team would be it should be accross the board for all classes not just the muscle cars. A clone is a clone no matter what vehicle it is. That means a lot of documentation would need to be available on show day.The sad part about the whole thing is for $400 you can have a new vin tag made that would be impossible to detect along with restamping of the engine block, heads, etc. A new data tag is also easy to make for the colors, trim styles, etc. This is the reason I dropped out of the POCI (Pontiac, Oakland Club) as I was instructed by the chief judge to remove the factory data plate and put on a reproduction so my 55 Pontiac colors would match the data plate even though it has Pontiac colors for the model year. Just not the ones it left the factory with. We got in a big arguement as I think the removal of the factory vin or data plate would remove the vehicles history forever and is just wrong. As I told him someday he will be judging a showfield with all red or common color cars as all the oddball combinations will be retagged as that is what he is promoting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JT Posted December 2, 2003 Share Posted December 2, 2003 Randall, you should leave your post in place so all, including myself, can learn from any wrong information as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
6219_Rules Posted December 2, 2003 Share Posted December 2, 2003 JT, I would hate to promote ignorance or misleading/questionable/wrong information.Too many would read it ad hoc and give it credence where none is justified.What I was trying to say is that each national/international club has a defined purpose and foci.One needs to recognise that, enjoy it for all that the club has to offer, and if the club does not fit our personal needs, be more diverse and be a member of different clubs to match our interests.One day I hope to own at least one antique pre-war car. But for now I have a CCCA Full Classic,and a non-Classic 70's car that is a beautiful car non-the-less. By being a member of several clubs I can learn and participate in several universes and that is both exciting and rewarding.So it matters not whether my '77 Eldorado is acceptable to the AACA, or the CCCA...it is to the CLC. We should not take it personally if our favorite car does not fit in a club we wish to participate in. If you broaden your own views and experience, you get more out of it.And there are innumerable local groups for just plain hanging out and cruising that are relaxing too. That was all I was trying to say. Just an opinion I thought to share. <img src="http://www.aaca.org/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ted sweet Posted December 2, 2003 Share Posted December 2, 2003 i thought its was illegal to make a VIN tag? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted December 2, 2003 Share Posted December 2, 2003 Randall ~ That was a good and very worthwhile post. No specifics, therefore no chance for error, but instead good, informative generalities. Thanx. Ted ~ It <span style="font-weight: bold">IS</span> illegal. The guy who offered that advice should be arrested as an accessory to a crime. hvs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron Green Posted December 2, 2003 Share Posted December 2, 2003 It is illegal to make a vin tag however we all know it happens. To clarify, the conversation above was in regards to the data plate and not the vin plate that he was suggesting be replaced. In fact his exact email read:Quote:If I were changing colors, and I was going to spend the money for a new data plate, I would have it say PAINT=SPECIAL. Then, I could paint it any color I felt like, and change it again if I didn't like the looks of it. XXXXChief Judge Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Moskowitz Posted December 2, 2003 Share Posted December 2, 2003 Boss 302, Our VP of Judging is away from home and does not have access to respond to you. He has asked me to inform you that upon his return he will answer your concern. Sounds like you have a great car, even though it is not an Olds! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R W Burgess Posted December 2, 2003 Share Posted December 2, 2003 Steve, We all have Olds...cars, you know? <img src="http://www.aaca.org/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> Wayne Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Olds 442 Posted December 3, 2003 Share Posted December 3, 2003 OLDS!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter J.Heizmann Posted December 3, 2003 Share Posted December 3, 2003 Wayne, Steve, Diz, Ron Green, Ron Flory...You guys are talking about "real" cars here. Just a question: For Winter storage, could I put my car in your glove boxes next year? Of course, on an alternating basis to make it fair.Until now, I store it on my coffee table...Regards, Peter J. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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