Show cars and their lesser relatives

[Richard F]

I recently had my first experience at entering my classic in a car show-- not your neighborhood Chamber of Commerce annual car show but a fairly prestigeous Concours. I knew I had little chance of winning anything and frankly didn't care anyway. I just wanted to see what it was like. I fact, I had such a good time wandering around and taking to some of the people there, I wasn't even around when my car was judged. Oh well...

Despite having enjoyed myself I came away feeling a little sad, and decided that judged shows are not for me, at least not on a regular basis... Oddly enough it was the same feeling that I had when I once went to an up-scale, benched dog show.... looking at all of those immaculate, pampered dogs being groomed for hours and then led around a ring by paid handlers. I couldn't help wondering if deep inside, that magnificent dog just wanted to be a dog... one who wished he was rolling in the dirt and digging up the yard and running in a pack of mutts, like my dogs.

I felt the same for a lot of the cars there-- those that rolled off their trailers and although beautiful to behold, barely wheezed their way to the spot where they would sit all day to be admired as the perfect representatives of their breed.

My car, though a throroughbred, looked a bit unkempt by comparison to the trailer queens. I had driven it there over 150 miles and about the only final preparation I had done was to scrape the biggest bugs off the front bumper and the windshield. But I had enjoyed that 150 miles, cruising along some rural highways and seeing the heads of people turn who appreciated seeing a classic car-- maybe for the first time. People who would never spend the whole day at the Concours I was heading for... people who had mutts as dogs but who loved dogs nonetheless.

For me, I think that the CCCA is on the right track in promoting tours. I think that there should be more of them and shorter ones. One day trips to an interesting destination in a local area, joint trips with the local AACA chapter or Model A club, and ones that you just need to show up at the appointed place, rather than pre-registering four weeks in advance.

More people will see and appreciate these old classic cars if they are out in public than will ever go to car shows. Some will stop and chat with the owners, and maybe even a portion of the younger generation will discover an interest in automotive history and see that they can actually touch and feel a part of that history... and perhaps own such a machine themselves one day and thereby help to preserve it. We need those younger people or we won't have anyone to pass these classic cars along to when the time comes.

[6219_Rules]

Richard, I have had a similar experience in Houston, although not a Concours quality show. The big show of the year had some 125 cars, some classics, some not. My '47 Caddy was set next to a '57 Cadillac Eldorado Brougham (my dream car), with a '48 Lincoln in garnet red in front of it. As you might expect, my car is a little rough, the chrome is bruised and faded at points, rusty on the bumpers, and generally in survivor condition. The paint is bright blue, not original for the period, but the interior is immaculate. I use the car. I repaired it to be used. I never wanted to show it but to tour and maybe show it so people could see what a real operating car of the period might look like. I did not win a thing. The trailer queens did that, although I will say the '57 CEB won and is used. I had to face it. My car would need an estimated $14000 of work at least to get it to the point of winning ANYTHING. But so what? I LOVE this car. I will in time detail the engine and have pieces rechromed, mostly those in the most need, but only to protect the original pieces. Whereever possible I have kept the original parts. I might, might I say, redo the original in its original broadcloth, but even that seems a bit much since the grey blue cotton/rayon limo cloth with blue piping works. It looks good and it is comfortable.

What is important for me is that a 1947 Cadillac 6269 sedan can be seen running around the Denver area most any day, being driven and thoroughly enjoyed. Is it preservation? I think so. Because were someone to buy it, or more like, were my son to decide to show it, he could bring it to top shape without too much effort. Well....only money right? The Dutchman, as I call it, is a part of me. I have considered selling him because of my disability but never do it. Not really.

I love the old barge, and it gives me something nothing else in the world seems to, a real sense of pure joy. I like pure breds. I love those glistening trailer queens, but in the end I think I will take my slightly used, dented blue Cadillac, thank you. He has soul. Smoke, oil leaks and all.

He has soul. <img src="http://www.aaca.org/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="http://www.aaca.org/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="http://www.aaca.org/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

[Guest J446]

I think this too will change. I recently had a car at Pebble. I and about 145 of the 400 cars entered participated in the Pebble tour. The cars that did got a pass on road dirt and in a tie the nod. I love driving my cars and admire all that do.

[6219_Rules]

Next year I would like to make at least one Grand National ... either the AACA, CCCA or CLC...and just be a part of it. That would be great fun. Now my son, 18 and full of beans, has decided we need to learn how to paint. He is exceptionally good at this sort of thing. That would mean we could afford to paint our cars. Now that interests me a great deal.

I could paint Dutch the original Belton Poly Blue! <img src="http://www.aaca.org/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

[Guest Chuck Conrad]

Most CCCA members have less than perfect cars. In fact, a lot of us like them that way. I am ever grateful that people are willing to do whatever it takes to restore a car to Pebble Beach quality, but I don?t think that?s what most people have in mind when they get into the car hobby. There is a fine line between hobby and a passion. Neither is wrong, but they are different versions of the same passtime.

My cars are all what could be charitably referred to as ?The Poster Child for the CCCA Touring Class.? They run reasonably well, but their appearance leaves a bit to be desired. Even though I?m content with knowing that my cars are in a different league from the 100-point examples, I have found that having them judged can be a rewarding and educational experience. It can even be fun.

Encouraging people to come to CCCA Grand Classics in their less-than-perfect cars, is why we have the Touring Class and the Original Car Class. Our events aren?t just for trailer queens, but is sure is nice to see them when they show up.

There?s a little something for everyone.

[6219_Rules]

I was hoping that was the case...Im a little shy at times. Can't you tell? When and where is the next CCCA Grand NAtional event? I need to plan way in advance.

[Buicksplus]

I rarely have my cars judged, but reluctantly decided to show my owner restored '27 Buick at a club event. I did quite a bit of work preparing the car and found the process pretty unpleasant. The judges attacked the car for relatively insignificant errors (hose clamps, coil, a few cad plated bolts, dirt here and there) and were not particularly understanding of the difficulty of restoring a car of this vintage. Some other fairly major restoration compromises I made were totally unnoticed. It is true this is no concours car, we never intended it to be, but today concours (i.e. over-restored perfection) has become the standard for judging. I can't say I learned a whole lot about my car or the process from the experience. We will not have it judged again.

We have far more enjoyed driving the car since that experience. Indeed, we drove the car in the heat of July from NM to Flint Michigan and back, a 4000 mile trip. I suspect few concours cars would have been up to such a trip. We find each rock chip and bug spot in the paint a pleasant reminder of our journey.

See you on the road!

Bill S

Albuquerque, MM

[Guest J446]

Chuck

I think Pebble has and continues to change. My car is a piece of history but it bears the scars of that history proudly. Not only was it invited but it won a trophy.

There were a lot of great cars there. Many were drivers and many had a wonderful patina that comes from use.

The only thing that matters is to enjoy yourself. The judges are a small part of it. A much more important part for me are the people who come over to look and talk, and watching the faces of the kids light up. Trophies tarnish, memories get better with time.

[Guest Chuck Conrad]

I believe J446 has summed it up quite well.

As usual, I have few words of advice. Before you blindly take your car to a judging event, it is very important to read and understand the rules under which you will be judged.

If you are going to a local Concours or Cruise Night, well, you?re probably on your own. Frequently the judging rules at these events are very loose or even non-existent. Those events tend to be beauty contests, and frequently have little to do with authenticity or even reality. Of course, the major ones like Pebble Beach, Meadow Brook, the Burn Foundation, etc., do have well thought out criteria, generally based on AACA and CCCA rules.

BUT, if you are judged at a CCCA or AACA event, you?ll find the rules are very straightforward. You should read and understand them. In CCCA, we judge cars by comparing them to the way they were delivered to the original owner. That doesn?t mean ?perfect.? Very few brand new cars are ?perfect,? but if your car doesn?t work and appear as new, it isn?t going to score 100 points.

Just because your car isn?t ?perfect? doesn?t mean you shouldn?t have it judged. I?m thrilled to win a third place in Touring Class. It?s still a nice car, but it isn?t ?like new.? Seems fair to me.

At first, some of these rules may seem silly to you (like proper radiator hose clamps), but they are the rules. Don?t expect a judge to overlook these little things. In CCCA, almost half of our judging form concerns itself with how things work. If the lights and radio don?t work, the engine runs badly and the windows won?t roll down, the car won?t score well. Should you be surprised? I don?t think so.

In either club, getting the rules is easy. CCCA publishes its Judging Rules every year in its ?Handbook and Membership Roster.? Each member gets one of these books every year. You?ll even find a sample judging form inside.

If you?d like to prepare your car for a CCCA event, try judging it yourself using the form. You?ll probably be harder on your own car than the judges will. And yes, in CCCA we do deduct for dirt and grime, if it is obvious that it?s been there forever. We do not deduct for ?fresh? dust and dirt that was the result of the trip from the owner?s home to the judging meet. Of course, most car owners have enough pride in their cars that they attempt to clean things up as much as possible before the event. You?ll usually find a car wash area at a CCCA Grand Classic.

If you really want to learn about judging, the best bet is to enroll in your club?s judging program. Both AACA and CCCA have very good ones. Although our rules are a bit different, they are both based on the same concepts. Besides, it?s a lot of fun. You get to play with cars like J446?s without having to actually own it!

It doesn?t get much better than that.

[Guest Chuck Conrad]

So everyone will know, the next CCCA National Judging Event will be at our Annual Meeting in Novi, Michigan, on January 4.

We have Grand Classics scheduled as follows:

February 28, 2004 Gold Coast Region Florida

April 17, 2004 Metropolitan Region, Lone Star Region (Austin, TX) & San Diego/ Palm Springs Region (Rancho Santa Fe, CA)

June 5,2004 National at CCCA Museum, Hickory Corners, Michigan

July 10, 2004 New England, Michigan, Indiana, Northern California,

Pacific Northwest & Colorado

You should check in your CCCA Bulletin for complete information and registration information.

[Buicksplus]

Chuck:

I support CCCA's rules on judging, they do far better than most clubs in publishing and applying their rules. But I still think the standard of "as built originally" is routinely distorted. I often see chrome plating that should be nickel, chrome plating that should be paint, and glass smooth basecoat clear coat that should be lacquer. This is usually done tastfully and certainly skillfully, but it is hardly original and in no way representative of the way the car was originally built.

The curb appeal of these concours beauties cannot be denied. But there are many CCCA cars that wouldn't score in the 80's that probably more accurately reflect the way the cars were originally built.

So yes, I find it annoying to be deducted for having modern hose clamps (the new ones do work a lot better, and of course, the deduction is easily eliminated by putting on repro clamps -- hardly original!). My car also has original wiring conduits that are pitted and discolored here and there. Would it be better to put on repro conduits that look perfect but differ in detail from the originals? Perhaps, but I plan on keeping my originals.

Still, I don't have a solution, other than to more seriously apply the "as built originally" criteria. It seems to me the the way car clubs are going, the show cars go one way and the remainder go the other. This is not a problem unless you are looking at how to increase participation in Grand Classics....

Bill

Albuquerque, NM

[Guest Chuck Conrad]

Admittedly, our judging system isn?t perfect, but it is pretty good. As I pointed out earlier, dealing with it does require understanding the rules. For instance, CCCA accepts chrome as a suitable replacement for nickel. I don?t personally agree with that rule, but that's a different issue. I?d hope that anyone who is restoring a nickel era car would do the right thing and use the right finish. None-the-less, under our current rules, it?s OK. We certainly would not want to punish someone who, in good faith, used chrome because the Club said it was OK. Dilemmas like this certainly complicate the issue.

The main point is, you can have a much less than perfect car, bring it to a Grand Classic, and still have a lot of fun. If you fully understand the rules, you won?t be surprised or disappointed. That makes it much easier to get down to the business at hand of enjoying the event. The Club can provide the gathering of great people and great cars, but you have to bring the fun attitude with you.

[Guest]

Post deleted by R W Burgess

[Richard F]

I find all of this discussion on the fact that CCCA shows have a place for all members cars interesting and enlightening, but I want to restate my original point.

For me at least, I get more out of events that let me get my classic car out on public roads than any show-- as dazzling and varied as they may be. And I think that broadening public interest in cars of this era is better served by a more public and visible presence out on the road where these vehicles were designed to be.

For me, the seed of an interest in classic cars was planted when I was about 14 or 15 and growing up in a suburb of LA in the 50's. I had been to some auto museums with my father (who was in the automotive business) but I had never really felt that cars on display were anything more than that-- something passingly interesting to look at and then move on to the next exhibit. Then one day I was out on Whittier Boulevard, (an important Southern California, "American Graffiti" kind of cruise strip) and I had my thumb out, intending to catch a ride home (unknown to my mother, of course). This time a gentleman stopped to offer me a lift in the most incredible machine I had ever seen up close, much less got into. Wide eyed, I climbed into this immense, cavernous automobile. When I asked what kind of car it was, he said a 1923 Cadillac. I vividly remember the wood on the dash, the huge wheel with those funny levers on it, the glass vases for flowers on the sides in the back seat... and the smell of history. When he pulled away, shifting that big lever on the floor, it was unlike any car I had ever heard or felt. It was more like a big, clattering MACHINE.

I felt like I had climbed into a movie. I was amazed that here was an ordinary man who owned such a car, and that he actually DROVE it and I was actually riding in it. It affected me in a more personal way than looking at cars on display ever did. And I think from that moment on I wanted to be that guy some day and to have a car like that.

And now I do... well, almost. I have a 34 Auburn Phaeton. No wood and no vases certainly, but I do have a little lever on the steering wheel and a bunch of knobs on the dash to pull that do interesting things, and it is still a big, facinating machine. And no matter how you cut it, it is impossible to give a kid a lift in your classic car at a car show.

[6219_Rules]

I think you make a good and valid point, Richard. I feel much the same as stated in my 'Joy.." thread. And I think the impact is more immediate on the public. Seeing what normally is a museum piece trundeling down to the Safeway or sitting at the stop light, puts it in perspective.

Shows and Tours are educational, and a lot of fun for both participants and spectators, serving well to preserve the automotive history that made this country basically what it is today. Watching "Horatio's Ride" I was filled with the same sense of wonder and excitement that I get when I throw caution to the wind and head out for a trip in my car. It is wonderful.

[Guest Chuck Conrad]

There is no doubt in my mind that cars look better when they are in motion. After all, they were supposed to be driven.

[Guest imported_SoKalKisselKnut]

One warm summer evening about 35 years ago in upstate New Hampshire, a gentleman decided to take out his classic Packard convertible for a ride to a local restaurant. He was driving through the parking lot when a later model Rambler station wagon passed by. In the back seat of the Rambler, there was a young boy who stared, transfixed, at the big beautiful Packard gliding silently by. He saw red hexagons on the hubcaps with the word "Packard" on them, and a big chrome bird high up on the front of the hood. The car was all shiny and glittery in the lights of the parking lot. It was the most amazing thing he had ever seen. When he got home, he couldn't wait to find out all he could about Packards.

The experience made quite an impression on that little boy! A love affair began that night, as today that little boy is all grown up. He now owns a Packard convertible {with a chrome bird on the hood} and has enjoyed the old-car hobby for decades, which has greatly enriched his life in many ways...not just in furthering his appreciation for automobiles.

That impressionable little boy was me.

I want to thank that unknown gentleman for taking his Packard out for a little drive that night!

Every time I take out an antique car, I am mindful that memories can be made or rekindled. Maybe someone's life can even be changed.

Jerry

[Restorer32]

Speaking of Kissel Knuts....restored a '21 655 Gold Bug a few years ago. What a strange and wonderful automobile! Only 1 door and it was on the wrong side. 2 trunk lids so I guess things came out evenly. I can still here the Kissel shop forman screaming at his underling.." No, No, you idiot, I said TWO DOORS AND ONE TRUNK LID NOT TWO TRUNK LIDS AND ONE DOOR!". What were they thinking?

[DizzyDale]

Dear Jerry,Please consider posting your GREAT story on the AACA General Forum.I believe more people will see it there.diz

[poci1957]

Jerry (and Richard) thank you for relating your stories. Take a look at my post on the AACA General Forum about interesting younger people, I hope we can all be inspired by your stories and pass the heritage along. Todd C

[Guest]

I have been in this hobby for the last twenty years thanks to my grandfather, and neighbor whom owned two thunderbirds a 55 & 57. Theses two along with my father instilled in me a love of anything with four wheels and an engine. My grandson whom just turned 14 two months ago has a burning passion for cars of all types. He likes the old cars with a great interest in Cobras and GT 40's along with anything that Carol Shelby built. He likes going to car shows and cruises with me which makes life a real blast. He has said to his father that when he gets his drivers license that he will get to drive PAPS Packard and Chevelle and can't wait to do that. I am very slowly educating him about the Classics as well. I guess that I am doing my part to pass on the torch of loving old cars to another generation and just loving it.

[Guest Chuck Conrad]

Good for you Packard53! New converts to the hobby are made one at a time. Taking time to get kids interested in ANY old car is important. They are the next generation in the hobby. We need them if it is going to continue. The process can be a lot of fun for you too, and if you?re lucky, you can keep the kid broke, busy and out of trouble all through high school. <img src="http://www.aaca.org/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

[R W Burgess]

Richard, Thank you for answering my e-mail. Your comments above need to be seen by all in the AACA. We have a youth problem for sure, but giving that ride to that young person is the way, in my mind, to create the interest in young people. Thank you for sharing it. I'll be using these comments in a future newsletter article. Wayne Burgess