kbeach Posted October 31 Share Posted October 31 (edited) @Lahti35's experience dealing with old brittle copper gas lines prompted me to add this post. In December 2003, we purchased a 1928 Stutz Victoria Coupe from South Dakota, sight unseen, thinking we were buying, at worst, a parts car for another on-going Stutz project. After getting it home and doing an overall inspection, we decided it was too good of a car to disassemble for parts. First views of our new purchase. It had gone through an auction and it looks like all the miscellaneous items the auctioneer didn't know what to do with was tossed inside, none of it was for a Stutz. For the next 20 years, we have slowly rebuilt, repaired, replaced or remade one component , system or area at time, as time and parts became available. From the start I made a promise to myself that this had to stay a rolling project and not a complete disassembly. Early on we re-sleeved the four wheel and master cylinders, relined the brake shoes and replaced the rubber lines. About January 2024, we decided to sign up it up for a tour held in September. This got me to thinking about the number of times, while working on older equipment, that I found a cracked brass fitting or split copper line. Thinking about the safety of others on the road, myself and the car, I figured it was time to replace all the brake lines and fittings with new Nickel/Copper. I ordered new flare nuts on the internet but was disappointed with what I received. Not the same as what was on the car and made in a foreign land. Probility would have just fine but ordered all new from Straight Eight. They looked to be a higher quality and more like the originals. This is what was found on the line from the master cylinder to the back axle. I would not have seen this if all the road grim had not been cleaned off. At one time this line had been rubbing on the rear spring. looks like it had been pulled back and repaired with a spot of solder and then sent back down the road, Scary! New line (bottom) next to the original. Same length, final shape happens when it gets snaked through the chassis. After the first rebuild, the master cylinder had a slow leak that would drain the reservoir after a few months of sitting. Never did determine where the leak was coming from, but it is gone now. New line to passenger front wheel. I find it interesting how the flash changes the green color. Even in the sunlight the frame looks to me to be black. Walt, the fellow doing the paint work, was the first to point out the dark green. The whole frame, springs, front and rear axles were painted this color from the factory. Exposed frame above the running boards had been repainted black on top of the green. The front fenders were on temporary while we finished the running boards. All the correct screws and bolts are in place now. Edited October 31 by kbeach typo (see edit history) 13 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lahti35 Posted October 31 Share Posted October 31 I had a brake line like the worn one you found blow out on a '61 Falcon once... Since it was a single master cylinder there went the brakes! Ahead 50 yards or so was a stop sign, a road, and directly behind that a fire station dead ahead. I lived on that block so I knew the streets and the road I was on picked up again just to the right side of the fire station and continued on. It was either into the front of the fire station with the fireman washing the driveway or over the curb into a yard to the right (between the stop sign and house to jog over to where the road continued on)... I chose the yard. I'll never forget mounting curb, sailing through the yard, dismounting the 2nd curb and getting lucky there were no cars coming either way as I crossed the perpendicular street ahead. I had my window down and the fireman let out a long, loud, loud "NICE" as he watched the whole thing unfold. I let the speed bleed off and limped home at 5mph... Examining the rear brake line I could see where it had worn exactly like kbeach's picture and popped. New lines were fitted asap as my wife who was with me did not appreciate the experience! 8 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kbeach Posted October 31 Author Share Posted October 31 (edited) Twenty years of progress, still a long way to go. I know, get rid of the trunk. We put it on for the tour, I like to carry an extra two gallons of gas just because. By putting it in the trunk it keeps the smell out of the cabin. From documents that came with the car, hand written notes plus verbal stories provided at time of our purchase, we have been able to trace where it has been since April 5, 1948, that is when Mr. Edwin H Appletoft (?) of Gettysburg, South Dakota, traded the Stutz to a farm implement dealer in Gettysburg (Kimstle & Sons, Jacob Kimstle - owner ?) as part payment on a piece of equipment. After the transaction was completed, the dealer, stating that he was not in the used Stutz business, drove it to the local wrecking yard to sell for scrap. After world War ll, with all the scrap drives to help with the war effort, most towns had large piles of rusting donated iron which drove the price steel to a low. To haul scrap metal from South Dakota to some distant place to have it processed was just not cost effective. The wrecking yard, figuuring there were not enough Stutz automobiles in South Dakota to justify having a parts car around, said they were not in the used Stutz business either and sent it packing back to the implement dealer, where it sat on the back of the property until August 14, 1953. This is when Mr. Phillip L Redden purchased it for $100.00. Some of the douments we have were hand written and are hard to read, plus being old does not help. First thing after getting it home was to do a little cleaning up, determine if anything inside was for a Stutz (none), then try to trun over the engine, it would not budge. Although the head had been of for probably 50 years, it had been covered and the cylinders had a covering of dust and a light coating of rust, but nothing that looked like it would prevent the engine from turning over. Removal of the the oil pan revealed a light coating of oily sludge, but nothing noted that would interfere with the crank shaft. Next came removal of the front timing cover. Now there is a problem. Mice had spent the past 50 years removing stuffing from upholstery and packing it it into the front of the engine. It looked like the timing chain made a perfect ladder for ease of coming and going. We later found more upholstery stuffing in the gas tank which was missing its cap. Edited November 2 by kbeach typo (see edit history) 18 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kbeach Posted November 2 Author Share Posted November 2 (edited) More about Mr. Redden, He was a carpenter by trade and a collector of mainly early Chevrolets with a few other makes thrown in. Supposedly, he bought the Stutz for the wire wheels. With a friend following him in a 1937 Willys, he drove the Stutz from Gettysburg to Pierre, South Dakota, a distance of some 70 miles. Whithin a few miles of home the Stutz decided that it had gone far enough and quit running, so the Willys came to the rescue and towed it the remaining distance. Short version of a long story, the wire wheels would not work on the intended project, so a couple of new plans were devised. One was to do a restoration back to original, another was to make a new roadster body as a replacement. Mr.Redden was aparently a very accomplished wood and metal worker so the roadster body seemed to be an easy reality. Many post cards were exchanged between Mr. Redden and A. K. Miller (a very well known Stutz collector at the time), discussing all the possibilties and availability of parts (Mr. Miller did not approve of the roaster body). Meanwhile, the head was removed and the engine partly dissembled. Mr. Redden's drawing of what the body he wanted to build would look like, based on a 1930 Studebaker President Speedster. About this time, it was put into an airplane hanger for storage, with the passenger side exposed to the weather. After many years in storage, the hangar collapsed. The Stutz was not damaged and was then moved into a barn. Back to the stuck engine. Urine from the mice had turned the bottom half of the timing chain into a solid unbendable mass. In addition, urine had seeped into the accessory shaft that turns the distributor, generator and water pump. The end result was a seize shaft that had to be pressed out with its bushings. This a good example of what can happen when an engine is left open to nature's little critters. This engine had been worked on before. One piston had been installed 180 degrees off which caused it's skirt to crack. The lower ratchet spring for the chain tensioner had been brazed together in two places and a piece of hard wood had been carved to fit into the the front timing cover to keep the chain from droppring off the crank sprocket. Note the braze welds on the ratchet spring. Note the groves cut into the wood block by the timing chain. Judging from the wear on the wood block and the amount of petrified Dakota oil/dirt that had to be chipped off the front cover, this repair served very well for many miles. I had posted these pictures a few years ago but still find it an interesting repair. My Guess is that this repair was made either during the depression or world war ll when parts were hard to come by. It is a true hack job but I have to admire the creative work that kept this car on the road instead of the scrap yard. There was no ridge in the cylinders and all bores cleaned up with honing. The camshaft, valves, seats and caps were ground. Someone had replaced the valve springs with a non-original type with way too much tension. I believe had the engine been started with these installed something would have broken. A correct set of springs were installed. Water jacket covers were taken off and a large amount of rusty junk removed. Water pump and generator were rebuilt. A new set of piston rings were installed along with all new gaskets. A pot metal zenith 105DC carburator with new venturis was installed (this has since been replaced with a brass 105D). The distributor was another problem. It is also made of pot metal and it took three to make up one usable one (this has also been replaced with new reproduction castings). Engine back together waiting for water pump, radiator and water, then first test drive. First time under its own power since 1953. Thats my granddaughter's art work on the driveway. A quick drive around the property and the "to do list" grew exponentially. Brakes (this was a given and known before the drive, but the hand brake works great. The clutch does not always release (this got a little exciting when trying to park it back in the garage. turned out okay thanks to a good hand brake but it sure increased my heart rate before I got it stopped. The gas tank is full of holes and will need to be removed, cleaned, repaired and sealed. Gear oil in the transmision and rear end comes out almost as fast as it is added. Right front spring needs to be-rearched as it bottomed out (turns out it was the wrong spring. 40 inches long where it should be 38. this put the front axle 2 inches ahead on the passenger side. Beacause of the serious body wood rot, the doors no longer fit in their designated openings and will not stay shut. Edited November 2 by kbeach (see edit history) 15 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wayne sheldon Posted November 2 Share Posted November 2 Is this the same Stutz opera coupe I saw pictures of in your other Stutz thread? It would be hard to believe that car could have been this bad before. I look forward to more progress tales and photos. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kbeach Posted November 3 Author Share Posted November 3 Don't recall posting it before but it would be the same car. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kbeach Posted November 3 Author Share Posted November 3 (edited) Mr. redden passed on before he could do any more work on the Stutz. The family not having a lot of interest in antique autos decided to dispose of his collection of cars and parts. Al and Glynda of Newell, South Dakota, purchased the Stutz at auction in June 2000. thinking it would make a good hot rod. The fellow that towed the Stutz to Pierre was at the auction and provided Al with a little more of the car's history. The trunk lid plus the top and bottom panels were removed when it was made into a wrecker. It is unknown at this point who did the conversion, or who removed it. With all the rotten wood, missing back panels and trunk lid, Al and Glynda figured it was more of a challenge than they wanted to undertake,so when an early 1930s Nash coupe came along, they started the hot rod project with it and put the stutz up for sale. We purchased it in December 2003. Loaded and ready for the trip from South Dakota to Washington state. After getting it home it quickley became apparent that this was not a parts car. Very rough with the wood rot and missing back panels but it had otherwise never been messed with. It still had its original paint, wire safety glass (unfortunately the windshield was broken) original wiring, oil, fuel vacuum lines and has to extra holes drilled in the dash,firewall or fenders, and no other modifications whatsoever. Too far gone to be in the survivor class but too good to cut up. About this time we moved to a new location, built a new shop and rebuilt a 1957 Chevrolet, all the time looking at the Stutz thinking we needed to be doing something with it. I decided to try my hand at replacing the rotted wood. This is one area in which I am easly intimidated by the number of perfectionists in the hobby that can produce very precise duplicate pieces of wood in verry short order. Looking at the whole project was too overwhelming so I decided to take on each piece as a project, little bites. It should be noted here that the top of this car is fabric covered over wood. The back curve of the top and curve around the back corners are made of sheet metal but the remaining is fabric on wood. The fabric did a nice job of holding moisture against the wood and rot was the result. The metal was not painted at the factory and most also had to be replaced. Designed to fail. Each piece of wood was duplicated as it was removed then, when possible, fit back to check for correctness. The first wood to be removed were the top slats that run from the windshield header to the back cross bow. A friend gave me some mahogany which was planned and cut to the correct size. These are all the same width and lenght so the first project was easy. Passenger and drivers side top slats are wider with a few cuts to fit the shape of the top edge, also flat and the old wood was good for patterns. Another easy project. Next came the top bows. the ends on the passengers sidewere rotted off but the drivers side all looked good. I figured I would take a short cut here and splice on new wood replacing the rotted ends. This being done the repaired bows fit nicely, but it became obvious that the car top had spent too many years as a storage shelf for heavy items and the bows had lost their arch, Here started my first wood working challenge,making all new bows. Each bow is a different lenght. The arch was determined buy using the front header over the windshield and the very back bow which are both covered by sheet metal and had retained their shape. A pattern was made for the correct arch making the ends adjustable for each length. The finished pieces fit very nicely which was a big boost to my level of confidence. This was done before cell phones had good cameras so I took very few pictures. Two top edge pieces Edited November 3 by kbeach typo (see edit history) 9 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike "Hubbie" Stearns Posted November 3 Share Posted November 3 Nice work. Mike 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kbeach Posted November 3 Author Share Posted November 3 Thanks Mike, wish I had taken more pictures. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dibarlaw Posted November 4 Share Posted November 4 Near the end of the movie at about 59 min. The bad guys while trying to get away in a Stutz Victoria coupe, after hitting a a 29 model A roadster, loose control and end up crashing down the center shaft in a parking garage. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kbeach Posted November 4 Author Share Posted November 4 Thanks @dibarlaw. Love the movie for all the cars in it. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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