Air Deflector parts wanted

[Steve Braverman]

I'm looking for these two pieces, or somebody that can accurately make them.

[theKiwi]

I too am interested in both these parts - and other things for the Air Deflector too - all I have is the main top/side cover. This is for my Series 153 Deluxe Coupe.

 

Thanks

 

Roger

Edited August 27 by theKiwi (see edit history)

[PFitz]

Guys,

It does not show the air deflector door's hook latch dimples on that drawing. If your air deflector has a two hook latch, or the later three hook latches, you might want to specify. Franklin changed to the better sealing of the three hook air deflector doors sometime in '31 because of the improved air flow of the '31 and later fans.

 

Steve, there is a front panel for the 145 that may be a better fit for your '30. It's drawing #53250.

 

Also, if you have them made, FYI those are not what Franklin often labels as "assembly" drawings - meaning that they do not show all the details of those panels that will be needed to fabricate them. The door drawing for '30 is #53284. 

 

The small brackets for supporting the front and rear of the deflector are often missing, but they can be easily fabricated in a bench vice from hardware store strap metal using the drawings of them if you do a search using "air deflector". 

 

Paul

Edited August 27 by PFitz (see edit history)

[Steve Braverman]

This is what I have so far. It appears that only two latches were used. 

[theKiwi]

They went with 3 latches at some stage - I think after 1930 for better sealing.

 

Roger

[Steve Braverman]

6 hours ago, theKiwi said:

They went with 3 latches at some stage - I think after 1930 for better sealing.

 

Roger

All of these air deflectors came after 1930. The series 14 did not have one. The third latch came in 32.

[theKiwi]

They were an "Accessory" for 1930 cars - see for example

 

 

or

 

Roger

[PFitz]

The air deflectors were an option for '30, but few were done. Like the options of tower distributors and right-hand taillights most you see today were done in fairly recent history, not during original owner's time. I know I've done a bunch of tower distributors and RH taillights that some assume were original to the first owner, but many of those I did 30-40 years ago. And the air deflector that was on Balderson's Pirate the previous owner admitted to me that he installed it not long before he sold that car to Balderson. 

 

However, there are a bunch of late '30 air deflectors that were factory installed when the car rolled off the assembly line. A lot of the last of Series 14 production used Series 15 engines. If you look on page 51 & 52 of the roster it's at least a page-worth of the last of the Series 14 production run all have Series 15 engine numbers. I believe this use of Series 15 engines starting well before the start of the '31 production run was also mentioned in some factory literature at the time.  

 

As for when the three hook doors came into being, I've worked on quite a few early Series 15 that had two latches and quite a few later series 15 that had the three latches. Notice that latch drawing leaves out all mention of Series 15, but we know they all had deflector doors that used that exact same latch. After 1930 you'll find a lot of the drawings were not updated as thoroughly, and/or, consistently because the drafting department was hit pretty hard by the layoffs as hard times set in. 

 

Paul

[Steve Braverman]

My car was missing its serial number, but the engine number is 151332. It is a series 14 engine. It has no air deflector, a low distributor, and the earlier fuel pump. What other features distinguish a 14-15 engine?  It is one of the last series 14 made. It has the Treslite tail light which was used after car 202751 (there are only six 147 cars in the register that fall in that category). According to the register, mine is the very latest 147 to survive. The latest 1930 engine number in the register is 151623, but all of the later cars are model 145. 

I am aware that the air deflector was offered as an accessory. but was it ever offered prior to the introduction of the series 15?

Edited August 28 by Steve Braverman (see edit history)

[PFitz]

Steve,

I'm not sure when the air deflectors were first used before or the start of Series 15. I'm aware that many of the drawings list "accessory" for Series 145/147, but, many of the air deflector drawings were done well before the end of '30 production and not listed as accessory.  And as you noted some of the later improved parts were used in the last of Series 14 production, such as your Treslite. 

 

Some of what changed for Series 15 engines - they used the 15 inch improved fan that raised the HP rating from 95 to 100HP while giving increased air flow for better cooling. No more shake-n-bake valve oiler, they used the Bowen pressure fed oiler. The oil filter drain line was plumbed to the timing chain inspection hole. Oil level gauge instead of an oil pressure gauge. Cam shaft profile was changed to help quite valves. Valve clearance was tightened which caused problems, so Franklin went back to '30 clearance on later engines. The accessory exhaust heater no longer had part of the air passage on top so that it would be able to clear the air deflector. Same U-3 carb but it had a choke cable clamp tilted toward the firewall.

 

The tower distributors started with Series 16 but were a retrofit option for Series 14/15. I've installed a bunch, and many others with a Series 14/15 have made that swap. Plus, way back when someone made a bunch of tower bases with pieced-together tubing that are not as stable. I've replaced a couple of those with the factory cast iron bases off Series 16 parts engines.

 

Paul

[Steve Braverman]

2 minutes ago, PFitz said:

Some of what changed for Series 15 engines - they used the 15 inch improved fan that raised the HP rating from 95 to 100HP while giving increased air flow for better cooling. No more shake-n-bake valve oiler, they used the Bowen pressure fed oiler. The oil filter drain line was plumbed to the timing chain inspection hole. Oil level gauge instead of an oil pressure gauge. Cam shaft profile was changed to help quite valves. Valve clearance was tightened which caused problems, so Franklin went back to '30 clearance on later engines. The accessory exhaust heater no longer had part of the air passage on top so that it would be able to clear the air deflector. Same U-3 carb but it had a choke cable clamp tilted toward the firewall.

So, while the engine number starts with 15, it has none of the series 15 feature listed, and is therefore a series 14 engine. I don't know if any Series 14 cars actually left the factory with Series 15 features. If they did, I believe the parts catalog would specify that as it does with other minutia.

[PFitz]

The main deference between '30 and '31 engines was the fan. It was such a big deal to Franklin that they mention it a lot in their literature, plus they even presented a paper to the SAE about its development. So, what fan did those last of '30 production Series 15 numbered engines use, the Series 12 inch fan or the Series 15 inch ?

 

And if those last of '30 engines were actually just Series 14 engines and not Series 15 engines than why use the Series 15 numbers ? Franklin had never done that before or after that I'm aware of.

 

And some other changes did not happen with the official start of Series 15 production. The early Series 15 engine used the same .007 and .007 clearance as in '30. 

 

As for parts book and drawings there are many examples of inconstancy and missing data at that time. And that only got worse as time went by and the depression had more and more impact.

 

Don't forget that '30 sales were about half that of '29 and '31 about half that of '30 and as such they were making layoffs of staff. Plus, the factory was still using left over 147 chassis for their custom bodied cars even to the end of '31. Melissa's late '31 Series 153 Derham Beline is one. 

 

Paul

Edited August 28 by PFitz (see edit history)

[Steve Braverman]

You just had the fan from my engine. It’s the small one. If you look at the numbers in the register, the first series 14 engine was 146000, so we can make an educated assumption that engine 150000 came in the middle of series 14 production, right after 149999. 

[PFitz]

17 minutes ago, Steve Braverman said:

You just had the fan from my engine. It’s the small one. If you look at the numbers in the register, the first series 14 engine was 146000, so we can make an educated assumption that engine 150000 came in the middle of series 14 production, right after 149999. 

Sorry but that was months ago, and I've done a lot of fans since yours. Tough to remember which.

 

Going by the numbers of Series 14 engines listed in the roster, those with the Series 15 engine number are much less than half, about three pages worth of series 14 numbers verses a little more than one page worth for Series 15 numbers.  So that would suggest closer to the last 1/4 of '30 production had a Series 15 number. 

 

The question still remains, why just change only the number of the Series 14 engines, but not the much-touted improvements, when they never did that before or since ? 

 

Paul

Edited August 28 by PFitz (see edit history)

[Steve Braverman]

4 hours ago, PFitz said:

The question still remains, why just change only the number of the Series 14 engines, but not the much-touted improvements, when they never did that before or since ? 

Good question. Why did they seem to begin with #146000?