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Grand Classic weekend in Dayton Ohio, September 26-28


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The Ohio Region has put together a fantastic CCCA Grand Classic weekend in September in Dayton, Ohio. Unlike most CCCA Grand Classics, however, this one is not only open to the public (the cars will be on display in Carillon Park, which is like Greenfield Village in Dearborn) but is also open to owners of Full Classics who may not be members of the CCCA. In short, Melanie and the board wanted it to be as inclusive as possible and I wanted to get the word out. If you live in Michigan, Indiana, Kentucky, or even Pennsylvania (as well as you guys from Ontario @Buicknutty), this is a trip that's relatively easy and a location that is new for a lot of us. I've been pushing for a southwest Ohio meet for some time and this is our opportunity.

 

You can view full details here: https://orccca.com/2024grandclassic/

 

In short, we have a lot of great activities planned for the weekend, including a welcome dinner at the host hotel on Thursday night, September 26.

 

On Friday September 27, we'll have a driving tour to visit the National Museum of the United States Air Force, which is probably the greatest air museum in the world. Lunch will be served in a private room dedicated to the Cold War. The Air Museum is probably worth the trip to Dayton all by itself. Later in the day we'll also have a side trip to the British Transportation Museum nearby for those looking to do a few extra activities.

 

Saturday September 28 is the Grand Classic at Carillon Historical Park with all kinds of additional attractions and period exhibits. Lunch will be served on the show field. At the end of the day, there will be a short tour to some local photographic spots ideal for showcasing old cars.

 

Saturday night is the awards banquet at America's Packard Museum, including a cocktail hour with open bar.

 

This is a lot to digest, so please review the website and see if perhaps this event is something you might enjoy. Even if you are not a member of the CCCA or the Ohio Region, you are welcome to attend with your Full Classic automobile (please note that if you want your car judged, you must be a member of the CCCA--if you are not, the Ohio Region will pay for your membership so you can attend this event). Even if you don't have a car but this all sounds like a good time, please come join us! Melanie and I will have at least one of our cars there with a back seat that's open to passengers for the entire weekend.

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On 6/28/2024 at 5:38 PM, Su8overdrive said:

That, Matt and Melanie, is how to put on a real and inclusive vintage car event, foster a future for our pastime.  Good going.

Thank you for your kind words! The Ohio Region CCCA has the same frustrations so many car clubs do at this time, mainly with members aging out of participation. The board has always worked hard to find ways for our chapter to share our vehicles, and not just use them for our own enjoyment and events. The Carillon Park venue is going to be a wonderful opportunity for us to share! 

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On 6/28/2024 at 11:19 AM, Matt Harwood said:

, Unlike most CCCA Grand Classics, however, this one is not only open to the public

====================================================================================================================

May I inquire about a portion of Mr. Harwood's post?    Where he says "Unlike most CCCA Grand Classics, however, this one is not only open to the public"....

 

What am I missing here?   What national or regional-operated Grand Classic (or any other CCCA Nat. or Region event) has EVER been closed to the public? 

 

From my admittedly brief contact with both Nat. & Regional CCCA events< apparently not as well-educated on CCCA policy,   my recollection is that virtually all are held in places open to the public. 

 

True,  if the Club has hired out a banquet hall  or similar dining facility where members and guests have paid in advance with a reservation for their meals - yes, in that case,  the general public can't just wander in.

 

True, if the Club and/or its Regions hire out the lawn of some fancy hotel to conduct its events,  the property owner, (as distinguished from our Club)  may show some  interest and/or concern if some scruffy individual waddles onto the property, who is dressed and/or acts like he, she, or it dosn't "belong" to their clientele...

 

Bottom line.   Mr. Harwood may have been active in CCCA National and/or Region events longer than I have, so he may know something I do not.   But until otherwise corrected,  it is my belief the public is always welcome to come see our cars.

 

.

PACKARD DEAD.jpg

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In the past, CCCA Grand Classic events were often closed to the public, or at least frequently held at facilities that were not open to the public. I don't think they actively prevented people from wandering in if a Grand Classic were held in a public parking lot, but they did not promote them as public events and invite the public to join the festivities free-of-charge. This one will be in a public park where there are other guests and activities going on and the show will be integrated into that day's displays and events at the park and promoted as something that the park will be featuring that day. As a result, I suspect we will have a much larger turn-out than most Grand Classics in terms of spectators. It is designed to be as inclusive as possible rather than trying to keep it exclusive and private as has been CCCA's tradition in the past.

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2 hours ago, Matt Harwood said:

It is designed to be as inclusive as possible rather than trying to keep it exclusive and private as has been CCCA's tradition in the past.

Well stated Matt. Most observant and glad you are actively trying to get "enthusiasts" to participate. I hope other regions of CCCA follow and learn from the example you set.

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6 hours ago, Packard enthus. said:

====================================================================================================================

May I inquire about a portion of Mr. Harwood's post?    Where he says "Unlike most CCCA Grand Classics, however, this one is not only open to the public"....

 

What am I missing here?   What national or regional-operated Grand Classic (or any other CCCA Nat. or Region event) has EVER been closed to the public? 

 

From my admittedly brief contact with both Nat. & Regional CCCA events< apparently not as well-educated on CCCA policy,   my recollection is that virtually all are held in places open to the public. 

 

True,  if the Club has hired out a banquet hall  or similar dining facility where members and guests have paid in advance with a reservation for their meals - yes, in that case,  the general public can't just wander in.

 

True, if the Club and/or its Regions hire out the lawn of some fancy hotel to conduct its events,  the property owner, (as distinguished from our Club)  may show some  interest and/or concern if some scruffy individual waddles onto the property, who is dressed and/or acts like he, she, or it dosn't "belong" to their clientele...

 

Bottom line.   Mr. Harwood may have been active in CCCA National and/or Region events longer than I have, so he may know something I do not.   But until otherwise corrected,  it is my belief the public is always welcome to come see our cars.

 

.

PACKARD DEAD.jpg

The famous art collector Albert Barnes was killed in this Packard crash. If any of you ever find yourself in Philadelphia, I would highly recommend visiting the Barnes Collection museum. Also, the documentary “Art of the Steal” is very interesting and can be found online and is worth the watch.

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3 hours ago, Walt G said:

Well stated Matt. Most observant and glad you are actively trying to get "enthusiasts" to participate. I hope other regions of CCCA follow and learn from the example you set.

The 2024 CCCA annual meeting car show was open to the public  and held in a public parking lot adjacent to the Pacific Ocean free of charge. Unfortunately rain kept most of the cars and spectators away. 

 

Everyone who is focused on letting the public see the classic cars and having shows open to the public should be commended. 

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6 hours ago, Matt Harwood said:

In the past, CCCA Grand Classic events were often closed to the public, or at least frequently held at facilities that were not open to the public. I don't think they actively prevented people from wandering in if a Grand Classic were held in a public parking lot, but they did not promote them as public events and invite the public to join the festivities free-of-charge. ........, I suspect we will have a much larger turn-out than most Grand Classics in terms of spectators. It is designed to be as inclusive as possible rather than trying to keep it exclusive and private as has been CCCA's tradition in the past.

===========================================================================================

I remain confused.   Perhaps our Mr. Harwood is a member/participant in a different CLASSIC CAR CLUB OF AMERICA than I. 

 

Yes, to some extent i agree he is correct;  the CCCA and its Regions do not actively go out and seek the general public to attend our events.   

 

As an interesting historical side-note,  that would have made no sense to us in the early years;  if the general public thought about saving classic cars at all, they thought of us as nuts or worse!

 

He is also correct that we cannot offer the general public to attend our events free of charge.   That's  because from time to time we hold these events on the private property of various entitles like parks and hotel grounds, where ANYONE attending has to pay some kind of fee to get in.    Our organization, obvioiusly, would have no right to waive admission fees to someone else's property.

 

An excellent example  is the upcoming SAN MARINO MOTOR CLASSIC near Pasadena, California in August. The owner of the park (City of San Marino)  allows any member of the public to enter on certain days, PROVIDED THEY PAY A FEE.   We CCCA members, like anyone else desiring to show off our cars on that day (again, this is a OPEN TO THE PUBLIC event) ,  have to pay a fee to the organization conducting the car show.

 

I am a member of several regions,  have been  in past years, on both Regional and the National Board.......I recall no Board meeting of ANY CCCA organization where ANY member suggested we should be insular, or private, or exclusive.

 

A personal note - I come from an earlier era,  when people who enjoyed old cars were regarded if at all,  with raised eyebrows.    To me, it is a relatively new phenomenon that the general public gives a rats hindquarters about what we do in trying to preserve  automotive history.   As others in here have correctly noted,  as age takes its toll, the interest moves with the times.   I recall attending a CCCA Region event in the 1950's,  at a joint event with the HCCA, held on the grounds of a private museum (open to the general public on that day only)  where buck-boards and stage coaches were exhibited,  some MUCH YOUNGER than our cars are today.  I could barely be bothered to walk by them to get at what interested me!  So, obviously, I cannot fault the younger generation from walking by my Packard Twelve to get a better look at some 1960's era sports car....!

 

 

PACKARD snow.png

PACKARD Kingman arch.jpg

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16 hours ago, Tph479 said:

The 2024 CCCA annual meeting car show was open to the public  and held in a public parking lot adjacent to the Pacific Ocean free of charge. Unfortunately rain kept most of the cars and spectators away. Everyone who is focused on letting the public see the classic cars and having shows open to the public should be commended. 

================================================================================================

Let me apologize for my lack of understanding as to how the old car hobby and the people participating in it, have evolved down thru the years.   I grew up in a different America,  where language was used with....well...to be gracious...shall we say "more precision" than today.  After all, even dictionaries have changed and evolved to confirm where we are going.   For example,  there was a time when the word "classic car" had a very specific & narrow meaning..."the best of the best".  Specifically, that meant only the largest, most elegant, most powerful "super cars" from a design/era when  the word "classic" meant "form followed function".   Meaning...a radiator stood apart from fenders, which in turn stood apart from a running board. 

 

True, even during our early years as a Club, some particularly excellent, fast, and powerful "streamlined" / "art-deco" cars were in our Club,  although some of our purists saw no sense in that.  But that was then.  Now...ALL things people are trying to sell are called "classic".   As I noted in aother post,  it is harder and harder each year to find products on supermarket shelves that are NOT called "classic".

 

Should we, in the CCCA "actively seek" the general public's attendance at our events?   How would that be done?  Who would create a budget for that?   Given the purpose of our Club - historical accuracy of our cars.....how would today's car enthusiasts benefit or contribute to our historical purpose?

 

I am not clear how some folks in this "thread" got the idea that ANY CCCA event, either Regional or National, was EVER set up and run so as to discourage the general public from attending our displays.    In times past the public's attitude towards the big super-luxury cars of the 1930's was one of, at best,  indifference, if not outright hostility,  so the idea of stopping them from coming to see our cars would not have occured to us.  It certainly isn't the case today.

 

I started attending CCCA events in 1956  (with my '34 Packard Super Eight).   In later years I ran a Grand Classic (at a public park in Santa Barbara, California,  served as both a Regional and National Director.   Someone correct me if they can note ANY CCCA event, ever,  where our displays of our cars were held in a situation where public access was denied.

 

I do appreciate the resentment of some , that as originally set up, the CCCA was devoted to "the best of the best".   Down thru the years, some folks ( typically with used cars to sell) have wanted us to bring into our Club's list,  more "ordinary man" type cars than what we were formed to preserve.  For example, a Pierce Twelve,  Cad. 16 or 12,  Duesenburg,  "Senior Division" Packards, etc.,  were on our "approved" list.  It would not have occured to us, in earlier times, that a  perfectly serviceable & adequate "ordinary" car like a Buick or "Junior Division" Packard would be relevant to what we were about as a Club.

 

Bottom line - as noted earlier,  as time marches on,  so do people's tastes.   When I bought my Packard Twelve in '56, (for twenty five bucks - a mint  Duesenburg was way out of my reach for five hundred...!).  Each era - each generation knows what is relevant to it.    How much was an old buck-board or stage-coach worth when I was active in the CCCA?     Each year my Packard Twelve declines in value.   I dont think anything  practically can be done  or should be done that will encourage today's car buffs to want to come to our events !

 

 

CLASSIC CHEV..jpg

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7 minutes ago, Packard enthus. said:

Someone correct me if they can note ANY CCCA event, ever,  where our displays of our cars were held in a situation where public access was denied.

Here you go, Peter:  A younger (but now ~55) friend whom I took to the airport this morning, then a CCCA member, was in an East Coast city on business in the early-oughts (2003?) and seeing that a CCCA meet was based at a neighboring hotel to the one where he was staying, went to the CCCA hotel parking lot to just look at the cars for a few minutes.  When challenged by a CCCA organizer, my friend displayed his CCCA membership card and explained his situation.  The CCCA organizer told him that he would have to pay the entire day's activity fee just to walk around the cars for 20 minutes.  My friend dropped the CCCA like a hot rock for almost 20 years.  His largely self-restored Packard took 2nd in class at Pebble Beach a few years ago.

 

I myself was out from 1975-1995 after having my production 1939 Cadillac 75 7-p sedan overtly dissed as being neither custom nor open.

 

My friend and I are now older and much crustier than those days.  I participate in my CCCA region's activities where we lack control-freak snobs.

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I hope if anyone has any questions about the actual event they will reach out and that some of you will make the trip to join us. I sure hope this thread can keep to its purpose and we can enjoy a conversation about the events we have planned. Here are a couple pictures of the Cold War Gallery where our private, catered lunch will be taking place at the air force museum! Our setup will be different, since it is for a meal but these pics give you an idea of what the space is like. 

Basic_Cold_War_Gallery_set_up_photo_2.jpg

Basic_Cold_War_Gallery_set_up_photo_3.jpg

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Posted (edited)
10 hours ago, Grimy said:

Here you go, Peter:  ....... a CCCA member, was in an East Coast city on business in the early-oughts (2003?) and seeing that a CCCA meet was based at a neighboring hotel to the one where he was staying, went to the CCCA hotel parking lot to just look at the cars for a few minutes.  When challenged by a CCCA organizer, my friend displayed his CCCA membership card and explained his situation.  The CCCA organizer told him that he would have to pay the entire day's activity fee just to walk around the cars for 20 minutes.  My friend dropped the CCCA like a hot rock for almost 20 years.  His largely self-restored Packard took 2nd in class at Pebble Beach a few years ago..............I was out from 1975-1995 after having my production 1939 Cadillac 75 7-p sedan overtly dissed as being neither custom nor open.    I participate in my CCCA region's activities where we lack control-freak snobs.

*********************************************************************************************************************

Wow....shocking...disgusting that any CCCA member would behave like that.  You are a far more patient gentleman than I - I sure as hell would not only drop a Club that treated me like that.....the individual being so rude would be lucky if I was in a good mood.......meaning...my response wouldn;t require the services of a bail bondsman.

 

As noted, what you describe is not my experience,  having been a CCCA member since 1956,  and, over the years, both a National and Regional Board member and Director.   While most of the CCCA activities I've participated in have been west of the Continental Divide, I have participated in event in the east.    I cannot imagine any of the fine folks in the CCCA I've met ANYWHERE, behaving so boorishly, so contrary to what the CCCA is all about.

 

Where in HELL did someone get the idea to "diss"  your  "production Cad 75 for being neither custom nor open".   NOTHING in the CCCA regs and rules (some of which, down thru the years, I personally wrote...!)  EVER provided for ANY discrimination between member's classic cars  (whether they be a custom-bodied open car, or a production sedan like mine.

 

Let me give you an example of a Grand Classic I administered in Santa Barbara some years ago.  Or better yet, a recent one at a very fancy and expensive, certainly "exclusive" hotel in Paso Robles, California.    The hotel set aside a portion of its parking lot for our event.   All manner of the public - hotel guests,  people who drove by and saw our cars displayed, stopped in to wander around them. (let me see if I can "attach" a photo of that event.)  As is typical of our membership,  our folks used this as an opportunity to "talk up" our Club - even got a few new members! (note from the photo my own car is a "production" sedan!

 

Bottom line - I have no explanation for what you describe.....sure explains why we see, from time to time, in here and in other old car publications,  people complaining we are a bunch of insular snobs.  But its not the CCCA or its people I know!

 

ADDED LATER TODAY - NOTE THE PHOTO BELOW - THE RED & WHITE STRIPED 'HOSPITALITY TENT"  SEEN IN THE DISTANCE (above my Packard Twelve's  hood).

 

At typical CCCA events, both individual Region officers and members of  our National Board  will be taking turns welcoming folks.  THis has held true down thru the years, both at National-administered Grand Classics,  and also other events our members have participated in.    For example, come to the SAN MARINO MOTOR CLASSIC at the charming Lacy Park in San Marino in late August.   We will have our reception tent set up there. 

 

Over the years,  our hospitality programs have brought into our membership  folks who eventually bought classic cars and became participants.    Again, the kind of behavior "Grimy" described in his above post is NOT typical of any CCCA member I have EVER run across. 

 

 

PACKARD  allegr.jpg

Edited by Packard enthus. (see edit history)
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It seems a little over-reactive to drop a club that focused on the things you enjoyed because one

or even two people acted offensively. Those folks, like all of us, aren't the Club they are only members.

I also would not leave a Country that I liked because some idiot or two acted offensively. I would simply

work that much harder to make things better. When the good people leave, they increase the power of those

whose actions we don't like.

 

But I do agree that these Grand Classics (and other events) are an opportunity to get in front of potential

new members and to show the  beauty of these cars to those younger than the cars. The mentioned event

was well hidden at the very back of this very very active hotel. Even as an invited guest I had trouble locating

it.

 

Johnny

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I think most members are coming around to the realization that any and all interest in the cars is a good thing and having it locked down like it is still 1970 is counter productive.   At least I think so.

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13 hours ago, jcrow said:

It seems a little over-reactive to drop a club that focused on the things you enjoyed because one

or even two people acted offensively

I too did quit CCCA after 45 years membership and 30+ years of contributing to all  the publications on a regular basis, starting a region, and being elected to the national board twice. Yes, it was due to attitude of the President at the time and her direction to the club manager to send me a letter requesting that I resign from the board because I could not attend board meetings  ( due to open heart surgery) but it was at a time when those that could not attend could communicate by an open phone and did...............that didin't count for me.

The majority of the other national board members just kept mum and did not object. 5 did but of course they were a minority. the current CCCA President is one of those who stayed mum.

It is what it is and was what it was, life is short so one has to choose what is worth participating in . It is obvious that I do not participate where I am not wanted. CCCA is a "healthy " club, you have your health you are welcome , if you don't , well ........

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On 7/2/2024 at 4:07 PM, Melanie Harwood said:

I hope if anyone has any questions about the actual event they will reach out and that some of you will make the trip to join us. I sure hope this thread can keep to its purpose and we can enjoy a conversation about the events we have planned. Here are a couple pictures of the Cold War Gallery where our private, catered lunch will be taking place at the air force museum! Our setup will be different, since it is for a meal but these pics give you an idea of what the space is like. 

Basic_Cold_War_Gallery_set_up_photo_2.jpg

Basic_Cold_War_Gallery_set_up_photo_3.jpg

 

Getting under the wingspan of a B36 is worth the price of admission alone. I'll be in the area for my daughter's family weekend events but I already know I won't be excused for this. Best success though!

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I am still of the opinion that if one likes what the Club is about (i.e great classic cars and their history and

preservation), which you seem to do, it would probably be best for you and the Club that you stayed as

active as your health allowed. I know nothing of Club politics or of the details of the affront that you suffered,

but very little is gained by walking away. That only punishes you more and rewards bad behavior ( if it was

bad behavior and not just simple misinformation). Local officials, Board Members, even Club Presidents are

just people, who at the end of the day are doing what they think is best for the Club. Doesn't mean that it is

always right.........

My view is that if you think things should be done differently it certainly won't happen on its own. It takes people

who have seen the less than perfect parts of the Club to help make changes. Running away doesn't accomplish

much.

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Posted (edited)
On 7/3/2024 at 4:33 AM, alsancle said:

I think most members are coming around to the realization that any and all interest in the cars is a good thing and having it locked down like it is still 1970 is counter productive.   At least I think so.

==============================================================================================================

"locked down like it is still 1970"...?     You have a point.   Those of us who remember what the old car hobby was like BEFORE 1970 have a lot to learn to understand what's been going on since then.

 

For example,  there was a time (in, apparently, a VERY different USA)  when exaggeration, outright lying, was looked upon with disfavor.   In that earlier time and place,  we "knew" that a classic or antique car was something special.   I was in an old book-store the other day, happened upon a dictionary of an earlier day - where the term "classic" was spelled out.  "Something unique, of first rank, representing the highest standard of excellence".   The "classic school of design", as we understood it the, came from ancient Greece & Rome, where "form followed function".  A car whose radiator stood apart from its fenders, which stood apart from bumpers, headlights, etc.   Would not have occurred to us in the CCCA to celebrate the "ordinary man" car of ANY era.

 

But that was then.   To today's old car buff,  as you point out...."counter productive"  (especially if you run a body shop or old car sales business). Simple fact of life;  people LIKE the terms "classic car" and "antique car".     Some of the older participants may remember when an "antique" car was one that had antique features, such as two wheel brakes,  kerosene or acetylene lighting, high pressure tires.  It followed that many early AACA participants felt the Model "A" Fords, with their electric lighting, four wheel brakes, enclosed bodies with roll-up windows, etc.   were way too "modern", devoid of antique features, to be called "antiques".   I've had folks tell me my '41 Cadillac Fleetwood is an "antique"....hmmm..power windows, pressure cooling, independent front suspension...could have been ordered with "factory air"...power windows....some "antique"....!

 

My suggestion - each of us enjoy the old car hobby as fits us as individuals.   Don't worry too much about how others enjoy old cars.  After all , these days,  isn't everything folks are trying to unload...."classic antiques"...?

CLASSIC CHEV..jpg

Edited by Packard enthus. (see edit history)
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