Original VS Unrestored??

[CHuDWah]

On 6/19/2024 at 2:37 PM, 28pontiac said:

Is the car Original, Unrestored or Restored?

 

As shown by this thread, you'll get at least as many answers as people you ask.  This discussion (argument?) has been ongoing since people started restoring cars, if not before.  There is no answer because there are no universally accepted definitions of terms.  Various clubs may have standards as to what vehicles they accept in which classes, but even those are inconsistent and contested.

 

For example, my spinster aunt bought a new car in the 30s.  When driving it out of the showroom, the salesman managed to scrape a rear fender.  The dealer repainted it before my aunt took possession.  When she sold the car (sadly, not to me) in the 70s, it had been driven only about 20K miles and never on bad roads or in bad weather.  I doubt it ever got much over 30 mph.  When it was driven, it always was washed before it was put away.  Only routine maintenance was required and that was done religiously.  Seat covers had been in place since the car was new and the original tools and spare tire were in the trunk.  She even kept old towels on the floor so the carpet wouldn't get dirty.  The only flaw was the paint on the fender aged differently so it didn't quite match the rest of the car.

 

So was the car original, original with repaint, unrestored, restored, what?  I dunno, nor does it matter. 🤷‍♂️

Edited June 23 by CHuDWah (see edit history)

[West Peterson]

3 hours ago, kfle said:

This is an interesting topic and let's bring it back to the AACA a minute.  I have the only 1911 Cole Toy Tonneau that is known to survive.  It has original interior, original linoleum, original etching on presto lite tank under the presto lite cover, original top, and even the original spark plugs still in the engine.  An early spare tire is even flat and hard as a rock on the running board.   Here is the thing, the body itself was repainted/overpainted in the 1947 with the pinstriping redone, however it was only the body and hood that was repainted as well as the front of the frame.  The rest of the frame after the top of the front springs is actually the original paint and pin striping.  

 

So if I was going to bring this to Hershey in the fall for the AACA show, what class would I put this in?  Technically, I think it has had too much repaint to be in the HPOF class and most of the other classes would encourage me to restore the thing which would be a huge travesty as this is truly a time capsule of a car.  When we consider preservation of many of these cars, paint was considered maintenance just like changing tires, hoses, etc. so I think there needs to be much more thought put into this topic.  

Kevin

Prewar cars, especially pre-WWI cars, have a lot more leeway in regard to re-paint, at least in the first level of AACA HPOF. It is my personal preference, however, to show prewar cars in the regular judged class with a "Do Not Judge" sticker attached, especially at Hershey. You'll feel more at home with that car parked among the rest of the brass cars, while in the HPOF class, you could be parked next to a 1972 Volvo and/or a 1968 Ford Ranchero.  Don't worry. No one will encourage you to restore it.

[pmhowe]

On 6/20/2024 at 8:03 AM, 31 LaSalle said:

CALL IT A NICE CAR

I'll cut him some slack: I will call it a very nice car. It is welcome to share my garage.

 

[Jack Bennett]

A paint job is a part of routine maintenance of a “keeper” car.

New upholstery is a necessity if smells and unsightly damage to the existing ((I did not say “original”)  upholstery make it less than desirable.

Tie rod ends, ball joints, a new exhaust pipe, replacing a broken window or having a new oil/temp/ammeter gauge installed to replace non working accessories is just a part of owning a old car, and keeping it operational.

Replacing a blown head gasket or leaking pan gasket is not a restoration unless you rattle can a bit of paint on the engine.

A frame off, media blasted, ceramic coated frame and a rebuilt engine, transmission, drive shaft, differential, brake system and electrical harness is a good start to a restoration.

Or, if you don’t plan on impressing your neighbor, or selling the car on Hennings, it’s just good sense.

Jack

Edited June 23 by Jack Bennett (see edit history)

[JRA]

11 hours ago, JV Puleo said:

Here's a real life example.

I had a 1911 REO tourer in what looked to be original paint. It was black and the REO advertising material does not mention that color.  I take that with a grain of salt though because at that point all cars were brush painted individually. Also, changes made during production very often don't show up in the advertising material which, give the complexity of producing it at the time, often doesn't reflect production changes. There was absolutely no indication it had been any other color but by a very odd set of circumstances I was able to find and speak to a man who had owned it before WWII. He told me that he'd had it painted in 1937. This was in the late 70s...so this car had been painted when it was 26 years old and I was looking at it 50 years later. In theory, a chemical analysis of the paint may have given it away since the 1937 paint was almost certainly a lacquer. However, the brush paint used when it was new was also a lacquer so you'd need some fairly sophisticated knowledge of the evolution of paint formulas to be certain. All this is far beyond anything we can expect in automotive work

I like the concept described by Wes about “restored car”, makes perfect logical sense for me. Regarding the “original or unrestored cars”, it is very hard to confirm what was done in a car over 90 years, sometimes, over 100 years. Sometimes I disassemble a part of a car wondering when it was touched last time, by who (factory or later), why it was done…For sure, for the restored car, no doubts on those questions. The unrestored or original, unless you have a detailed maintenance track record of the car since departure of factory, you will never know.