The Story Of A Haynes Model 50

[BobinVirginia]

Chapter 1
 

This is a tale about a car. A car I now call Miss Haney. So around 20 years ago my Dad had eyes on a property that had been abandoned. He wanted the place for a huge garage that couldn’t be permitted nowadays. Long story short after several years of offerings he got the property. 
 

Unknown to us, there was a 1921 Haynes stuck way in back of the dilapidated garage. (It wasn’t so bad when he first offered to purchase the property) My dad bought the property and the former owner had 90 days to remove anything they wanted. Fast forward seven years and my Dad had stored the dilapidated Haynes. A man showed up saying he had bought the car and was there to get it. After the explanation of my father’s storage was explained he backed out. The crazy old bat that thought she still owned the car went to my father’s employer at the time and stated he stole her car! After Seven Years of abandonment!!! 
 

Needless to say, my Dad was disgusted. I decided we should move the car 2-1/2 hours away to my Dad’s grandmas old place. Dad received many many offers from people that wanted to street rod it. Me being a car guy and knowing how original it was I couldn’t let that happen. 

Along came Covid and my lack of any car activity so I went to taking care of things at my grandmothers old place. I started looking deep into the Haynes and realized it’s complete and original. 

It was missing the fuel tank, horn and one wheel rim. Other than that it was remarkably untouched. 
 

I tried turning the engine by hand but no luck. 

[BobinVirginia]

Chapter 2 

The Haynes had sat dormant for several years at my great grandparents garage. I decided it needed a title before I touched it seriously. Turns out the car was purchased new in Washington DC. and they assigned the VIN to jurisdiction rather than engine number 

 

Once it was titled to myself and my father the effort has increased 

Edited June 4 by BobinVirginia (see edit history)

[alsancle]

Very cool Bob!   Looking forward to your progress.   Haynes built a stylish quality car in that era.

 

One nit, you are not allowed to call your car a name unless it is one of the following:

 

1.  Moneypit.

2.  POS.

3.  Pile of S.

 

[BobinVirginia]

1 hour ago, alsancle said:

Very cool Bob!   Looking forward to your progress.   Haynes built a stylish quality car in that era.

 

One nit, you are not allowed to call your car a name unless it is one of the following:

 

1.  Moneypit.

2.  POS.

3.  Pile of S.

 

Thanks for that pic! 
I’ve called it a bad word or two but it usually gets a pass, it’s pretty old! lol 

[BobinVirginia]

Chapter 3

 

During the doldrums of Covid I researched a lot of history on Haynes. I was able to make a connection with the former curator of the Haynes Museum In Kokomo who shared tons of history and information. 
The next step was to join this forum. I was looking for information on wheel rims. I was fortunate enough to encounter some people willing to help a newbie. 
I also ran an add for 33x4 tires after I figured out the rims. I found tires on here thanks to another forum member! 
 

Then once again, life happened and everything stopped. I had a shoulder surgery that was rough. Turns out having the end of you collar bone cut off  hurts a while. Dad moved, had a triple bypass and etc etc

Now we’re up to current times. I started pulling wheels and tires. I had a wheel that had been bent rolling up trailer ramps. After straightening the bead sections I learned how to mount tires on these old cars. Refurbished the original rims and hardware then mounted tires. That first wheel and tire really made it look like a different car. 

[John Bloom]

Fantastic stuff!

 

thanks for starting this thread. Looking forward to following along. 
 

 

[BobinVirginia]

7 minutes ago, John Bloom said:

Fantastic stuff!

 

thanks for starting this thread. Looking forward to following along. 
 

 

I have some other pics on a thumb drive somewhere from the move to storage at my grandparents old place. I’ll have to find them

[alsancle]

Is there a Haynes club or association?

[John Bloom]

3 minutes ago, alsancle said:

Is there a Haynes club or association?

Maybe another club has scooped them in for inclusion??? Apperson?

[BobinVirginia]

28 minutes ago, alsancle said:

Is there a Haynes club or association?

There was a group called the Pioneer club. Named so after Haynes first car the Pioneer. I emailed a link I found years ago and received no reply. 

Sadly, this gentleman has passed and was the foremost expert on Haynes cars that anyone knew of. There’s not much support out there I’ve found for Haynes cars. 

[BobinVirginia]

Chapter 4 

 

After getting all the tires mounted there was an issue that still needed to be addressed before moving the car. It had a steering wheel lock on it that was stuck in the locked position. I don’t have pictures of process but have pics of mechanism. We had moved the car and steered with the pitman arm unhooked. This wouldn’t do coming to my home shop. I drilled and tapped the pressed in pin at the pivot then jack bolted it out. The top had to be removed as the bows tried to break when folding also. 
 

After that the steering was free and I encountered another issue. The wood segments on my fatmans wheel started to separate. I zip tied the segments together so nothing would be lost or damaged. Then my brother and I pulled it from its resting place of around 12 years? Sure was great to see it here in my humble little garage in the suburbs! lol 

 

Edited June 4 by BobinVirginia (see edit history)

[BobinVirginia]

I’d like to thank some folks for contributing to my Haynes. Whether it be encouragement, technical or parts. 
 

@Grimy @edinmass @George Cole

@pkhammer @John Bloom @rustyjazz1938@dpeeler@chattin@alsancle

 

It’s very nice to find people that are willing to help and invite me to be a part of the prewar car hobby. 
 

Thanks

[edinmass]

AJ and I will be in your area in October…….we expect a ride……..and to “drive it like we stole it!”

 

[BobinVirginia]

12 minutes ago, edinmass said:

AJ and I will be in your area in October…….we expect a ride……..and to “drive it like we stole it!”

 

Sounds like a good time!

[edinmass]

1 minute ago, BobinVirginia said:

Sounds like a good time!

Old cars, young ladies, and Crown Royal……….all bases are covered!

[Grimy]

2 minutes ago, edinmass said:

Old cars, young ladies, and Crown Royal……….all bases are covered!

You'll also need a re-creation of a Roman vomitorium.....

[Jeff Perkins / Mn]

👍👍You’ve already earned two thumbs up for starting this thread……on you way to earning many more!

[edinmass]

11 hours ago, Grimy said:

You'll also need a re-creation of a Roman vomitorium.....

 

Easy......I already live in one!

[BobinVirginia]

Chapter 5 

 

After getting it in my garage. It was time to determine what had the engine stuck. I’d been soaking the cylinders for a few years with ATF and Acetone along with marvel mystery oil etc. I made an air fitting for the plug holes and added air pressure. After a day or two of that here at home I put the car in third gear and gently rocked the car back and forth looking for motion at the crankshaft. It would indeed move a bit. 
 

Knowing pistons weren’t stuck I turned my attention to the water pump and generator. Putting a pipe wrench on the hardy joint flange, I got nothing at all. No movement backlash in the gears would allow. With this in mind, I quickly set about removing the air compressor, generator and water pump. Unfortunately to get it separated I did have to sawzall the hardy joint due to not being able to rotate the assembly for bolt access. 
 

Once everything was off the engine spun freely!!! I jumped up and down like a fool! The water pump was seized solid. 
 

Edited June 5 by BobinVirginia (see edit history)

[edinmass]

 

Pound on it like it's a redheaded step child!

 

That car is so old, it looks like George bought it new back when he was in high school...........and his first class was Egyptian hieroglyphs, being taught as current events!

 

 

Edited June 5 by edinmass (see edit history)

[Lahti35]

Boy that's a cool looking engine, looks untampered with! That's some crusty radiator hose, but red hose is available new from Restoration Supply Co. Keep up the good work! 

[BobinVirginia]

@Lahti35

Thanks, that’s a light 6 of Haynes design. It’s 288 cubic inches and is an L head design with no removable head and aluminum crankcase. It was really untouched. I’ve found nothing modified on the car anywhere. 👍🏻

[alsancle]

You are very lucky the car has not been molested.  

[Terry Harper]

21 hours ago, BobinVirginia said:

Once everything was off the engine spun freely!!! I jumped up and down like a fool! The water pump was seized solid. 

I understand that happy feeling! When I first started work on the big Wisconsin T-head I was told that it was stuck. Having sat since 1933 I figured that would probably be the case. However, after soaking the cylinders for about a week I used a pry bar to gently work the flywheel  - I was stunned when it easily turned over!

 

I am so pleased to see you making progress on the great project! Haynes, and Apperson have always been intriguing cars to me. This one is a wonderful survivor and I am looking forward to following along as it's brought back to life.

[nsbrassnut]

Hi Bob

 

Great to see you start the thread on the Haynes. I think a lot of us will be following along and watching over your shoulder.

 

Thought on the engine. When I first looked at my '14 Hudson at the auction the engine was stuck. But I could wiggle the crank and thought that maybe only the valves were stuck. These old L head engines are prone to the valves sticking when they sit too long. The valve stems are not directly lubricated and depend on oil mist working up from the engine and leakage past the lifters for oil to get into the valve chamber. Exhaust valves especially stick a their lubrication it poor.

 

Anyway, that was the problem with my Hudson. Careful oiling and tapping and a bit of prying followed later by engine turning by hand and the valves could be freed up and removed. Then a cleaning and light lapping in of the valves and the engine could eventually be started.

 

The key tool you need is a proper valve plug wrench to remove the valve plugs without damaging them. Hopefully you can either find one or make one. You will need it eventually. And then work out the size of the copper crush rings that will be needed to reseal them afterward. Here are a couple pictures of a combination spark plug and valve plug wrench that I was able to find for my Hudson.

 

Good luck with the Haynes.

[Rod P]

I have seen your earlier posts Bob, about older cars, but don't worry about them. 

 

That Miss Haney, she is a beauty.

 

Now she might not look like she used to in Alsancle's pic #3, but even just some new footwear makes such a big difference. 

 

Thanks for including us on this not so common and incredible journey.

[BobinVirginia]

On 6/4/2024 at 8:13 PM, edinmass said:

Old cars, young ladies, and Crown Royal……….all bases are covered!

While out mowing for hours listening to headphones. I heard a song that reminded me of your post! 🤣😂

 

[BobinVirginia]

Chapter 6 

 

Knowing the pump was locked and it drives the distributor, I wanted to get it repaired quickly. Getting the pump apart was the most difficult part of the repair. I only broke one 10-24 screw getting it disassembled.
 

The pump had improperly been packed and the nut way over lightened eating a bad gouge in the shaft. The brass bushings were all in good shape but the shaft was rough. I didn’t want to take a chance damaging the impeller so I decided to repair the shaft instead of make a new one. 
 

I undercut both worn areas and media blasted them for metal spray. We used a Metco powder consisting of molybdenum, chrome and nickel. I do the machine work. My friend is an artist with applications of the spray similar to paint. After light passes to keep material soft and no warping in the shaft, I turned it. Polished with 320 Emory at 1,100 rpm made it better than new along with more durable than the substrate shaft. 
 

After the repair I properly reassembled the pump using the correctly cut packing and calcium grease. 

 

 

 

Edited June 7 by BobinVirginia (see edit history)

[Grimy]

I have an idea for a retirement gig for you, Bob......

[John Bloom]

2 hours ago, BobinVirginia said:

Chapter 6 

 

Knowing the pump was locked and it drives the distributor, I wanted to get it repaired quickly. My skill set and access to certain tooling made this a relatively simple repair. 
 

Getting the pump apart was the most difficult part of the repair. I only broke one 10-24 screw getting it disassembled. The pump had improperly been packed and the nut way over lightened eating a bad gouge in the shaft. The brass bushings were all in good shape but the shaft was rough. I didn’t want to take a chance damaging the impeller so I decided to repair the shaft instead of make a new one. 
 

I undercut both worn areas and media blasted them for metal spray. We used a Metco powder consisting of molybdenum, chrome and nickel. I do the machine work. My friend is an artist with applications of the spray similar to paint. After light passes to keep material soft and no warping in the shaft, I turned it. Polished with 320 Emory at 1,100 rpm made it better than new along with more durable than the substrate shaft. 
 

After the repair I properly reassembled the pump using the correctly cut packing and calcium grease. 

 

 

 

Now that is some fine work. I hope you don’t regret posting that. I fear it might force you into having your phone number unlisted fairly soon.

[Mike "Hubbie" Stearns]

That’s awesome. Great job. Mike

[BobinVirginia]

11 hours ago, Grimy said:

I have an idea for a retirement gig for you, Bob......

It’d be nice to work on cool stuff like this and less on uninteresting things! 

[29 Chandler]

I am really enjoying this project. You are doing a really wonderful job troubleshooting the process and documenting it for us. Neither of which is an easy job. You may now become the new Haynes expert.

[29 Chandler]

On 6/6/2024 at 4:17 AM, nsbrassnut said:

Hi Bob

 

Great to see you start the thread on the Haynes. I think a lot of us will be following along and watching over your shoulder.

 

Thought on the engine. When I first looked at my '14 Hudson at the auction the engine was stuck. But I could wiggle the crank and thought that maybe only the valves were stuck. These old L head engines are prone to the valves sticking when they sit too long. The valve stems are not directly lubricated and depend on oil mist working up from the engine and leakage past the lifters for oil to get into the valve chamber. Exhaust valves especially stick a their lubrication it poor.

 

Anyway, that was the problem with my Hudson. Careful oiling and tapping and a bit of prying followed later by engine turning by hand and the valves could be freed up and removed. Then a cleaning and light lapping in of the valves and the engine could eventually be started.

 

The key tool you need is a proper valve plug wrench to remove the valve plugs without damaging them. Hopefully you can either find one or make one. You will need it eventually. And then work out the size of the copper crush rings that will be needed to reseal them afterward. Here are a couple pictures of a combination spark plug and valve plug wrench that I was able to find for my Hudson.

 

Good luck with the Haynes.

Thanks for posting this. Now I need to find one of these wrenches for my Chandler. Looks like we have very similar port plugs.

[BobinVirginia]

7 hours ago, 29 Chandler said:

Thanks for posting this. Now I need to find one of these wrenches for my Chandler. Looks like we have very similar port plugs.

I’m going to need one myself too. Probably wind up making mine. 

[pkhammer]

Bob! Great to see work being done on the Haynes and some excellent work too! 

48 minutes ago, BobinVirginia said:

I’m going to need one myself too. Probably wind up making mine. 

Don't forget we have laser and water-jet capability at my work! 😉Thanks for the shout-out above too! I'm certainly going to follow along your progress.

[BobinVirginia]

13 hours ago, pkhammer said:

Bob! Great to see work being done on the Haynes and some excellent work too! 

Don't forget we have laser and water-jet capability at my work! 😉Thanks for the shout-out above too! I'm certainly going to follow along your progress.

Thanks Greg,

 

I wish we had a water jet when I made my hub nut wrench! I crudely cut a scrap piece of 1/2 drop out with a torch and then cut the eight sided 2-3/4 nut profile out on a prototrak mill. Easy but not as nice as it could’ve been had I profile milled the whole thing. That’s more time than the thing needed invested though!! lol 

 

I sure am glad we grabbed those plugs from you! 

 

Edited June 10 by BobinVirginia (see edit history)

[BobinVirginia]

Chapter 7

 

With the water pump straightened out I turned my attention to making a new Hardy joint and cleaning up the generator and distributor. 
 

I had to cut the old joint apart to get the assembly off. With nothing available for a Haynes, I got creative. I found some corded conveyor belt that would work for material. Using a 3-1/2 hole saw I popped out blanks. Once two pieces were bonded they were about the perfect thickness. The I drilled the pattern and that was done. 
 

Then a quick cleaning of the brushes, commutator and distributor. I add a new field fuse, cleaned and gapped the points. I forgot to get more pics of that. It’s a Leece Neville generator unit. I wrapped the frail dual wires from the distributor until I get the correct replacements. 

 

 

 

Edited June 10 by BobinVirginia (see edit history)

[Grimy]

Very nice, Bob, but we're going to have to teach you to stay away from watery beer if you want to romp with the big dogs.  Coors even admits it, "It's the water!"

[Roy Haynes]

Hey Bob. Looking good! Very nice! Glad you are moving forward. We are just now working on getting old tires off. We found some fairly new white walls in Tucson Az last year. Still don’t really know what we are going to do about the engine.