1918 Buick 4 door touring wood

[martybuick stumped]

I'mworking on a 1918 Buick four door touring. I need to know where I can get information on the wood frame that ,he body has. I need to replace most of the rotten wood. What's left isn't worth  saving for  patterns. Any help.or suggestions would be appreciated.

Thank you

Marty Buick Stumped.

[Bloo]

Save every scrap for now. Odds are strongly against being able to just buy these parts. Good luck and welcome to the forum!

[Oregon Desert model 45]

Start a new thread below in the Buick Pre War section and somebody will help you with this.   A lot of us have worked on touring wood, including me.  

https://forums.aaca.org/forum/60-buick-pre-war/

 

[Oldtech]

What Model? 4 or 6 cylinder.

[DFeeney]

This is a "Labor of Love" project.  Slow and easy , take a break when you get tired and you can "Work" your way through it. 

[nsbrassnut]

Hi Marty

 

Start by saving everything, even the rotten broken bits. It will help if eventually you find someone with a similar Buick that can provide some reference pictures and information.

 

In the meantime, it helps to think like a paleontologist. Carefully strip out the wood bits that left, taking pictures and notes along the way. Then see if  you can assemble the skeleton and fill in some of the missing pits with temporary parts made out of softwood to see how the bits go together. That can help to figure out how it goes together and provide some ideas on how to approach it. You may be able to glue or epoxy some of the rotten or broken bits together to help with figuring out the skeleton and to help with making patterns.

 

Most people will start with the body sill rails and build a foundation and then start to work back up. And it really helps to build right on the frame (or a spare) to provide a jig for building the body on. Or carefully measure the body mount locations on the frame and build a jig. I know a few who tried to build the wooden frame work without patterns or a jig, and the results were not good when it came time to place it on the frame.

 

Sometimes it can help to not clean or blast the metal body panels before building the wood frame. There can be witness marks in the old paint or even the old rust that can help show where missing wood sections belong and how some of them may fit together.

 

And start collecting clamps. Lots and lots of clamps. You will need them to hold bits in place while sorting out the fit and before you start to drill the screw and bolt holes. And be prepared to built a bit, fit a piece or two, then take it apart to finish a piece, reassemble, disassemble, reassemble, etc. etc. until it starts to work out.

 

Here are a few pictures of a messed up '13 Canadian Ford T body that I am working on. Someone else started to work on and replaced one sill and a few bits. And not on a jig either. And several parts are rotten and some are missing. What a mess. And this one is pre-assembly line and basically individually hand built. And in this case, not well designed or built either. Buicks are more complicated and more solid.

 

 

 

 

And part way through the puzzle and after filling in some of the missing bits.

 

 

Edited April 28 by nsbrassnut (see edit history)

[mcCat1962]

You should have some scrap. 

[Jeff Deringer]

I don't mean this disparagingly at all, but you might want to consider moving on with a different car.  My dad restored over a dozen cars, maybe 2 dozen in his life and he told me don't ever restore a car that needs all new wood.  Buy a similar car that doesn't need that much work to enjoy.  Time is precious.  Just my $.02

[DavidMc]

I have to agree with Jeff, unless you enjoy working with wood and have plenty of time.  I agree with the other comments above.

I replaced all wood in three 1920's cars over a very long time.  The woodwork in each one took a long time, there is no easy way.   The original steel panels need to be assembled and temporarily supported, correctly aligned to the original shape.   Then each piece of timber is shaped to fit inside the panels using the remnants of the original pieces (if the exist) and fitted in places with tightly fitted joins between each piece.  Most pieces will not be square to each other.

Access to an identical model car can be a great help for basic dimensions but its wood will be covered with trim.  Drawings may not exist.  The work is the reverse of the way it was done originally.   

You need to like working with wood and be very patient if so it is very rewarding.  

[Oldtech]

I'm not so pessimestic. I did all the wood for my 17 in spare time of 2 winters. You need basic skills and some good tools like a GOOD bandsaw, sanders, a large selection of screws, a router, etc. 

There are things you can 'cheat' on like using lap joints instead of mortise and tenon because you can adjust the lab a bit when needed. (Gasp). Also Carving curved parts from a larger board rather than bending.  I say have at it!

[1912Staver]

There were 3 basic models of Buick touring in 1918 . All 3 had different bodies.  E -35 , 4 cyl . touring, E 45 6 cyl. 5 passenger touring and the E49 6 cyl. 7 passenger touring.  The basic wood structure is somewhat similar in overall design , but every individual piece of wood is different between the 3 models.

As others have said,  big job.

[Larry Schramm]

4 hours ago, 1912Staver said:

There were 3 basic models of Buick touring in 1918 . All 3 had different bodies.  E -35 , 4 cyl . touring, E 45 6 cyl. 5 passenger touring and the E49 6 cyl. 7 passenger touring.  The basic wood structure is somewhat similar in overall design , but every individual piece of wood is different between the 3 models.

As others have said,  big job.

 

Not a car, but I have a 1918 E-4 Buick truck that I am going to rewood some day.  A lot easier than a car.  Mostly straight cuts. 🙂

[nsbrassnut]

Some ideas to consider if you decide to tackle the wood work yourself.

 

Most of us don't have access to some of the larger wood working tools that you may need to use for the project, such as planers and band saws, etc.. But there may be options to help with that.

 

I found the best place to get hardwood is from a wood specialty supplier instead of chain stores like Home Depot. Although the Home Depot or similar supply shops do often stock milled wood that is planed to 3/4" or other standard sizes which may be used in a lot of spots in the framing. The specialty wood shop sells larger lengths and sizes and usually at better prices too. Ask them to see if they can do some of the wood preparation for you. The supplier that I deal with will mill, cut, plane planks to size and cut to length upon request and their pricing is pretty good.

 

For the stuff they can't do or you want to do on your own. Check what may be available in your neighbourhood for wood shop courses or community workshops. Years ago I signed up for evening wood shop classes at the local community college. Once you had learned the basics you could bring in your own wood and work on your projects. I made most of the body framing for an early Cadillac that way.

 

This time I'm working on a Ford T project. Chatting with the staff at the wood supplier they mentioned a community tool library and workshop in town. I looked them up and they offered both the loan of various power and hand tools and also have a wood shop at their site that can be used several evenings a week and on weekends. So I joined up and once I went through their workshop orientation I could take in my wood and use their band saw and planner for some larger sections that my home workshop tools just couldn't handle. It helped me through a hurdle last week and I'm planning to drop in there again this week to do some more.

 

You don't need a full blown wood shop at home to do the project. A combination of finding other places with tools that can be borrowed or accessed can help make the project viable, without going broke buying large tools that you may only use a few times.

 

So don't give up. It can be done if you have some patience and a willingness to muddle your way through.

[chistech]

I had a lot of “advice” also about not attempting to do re-wooding. It was too hard, too time consuming, impossible to get right, etc. As many know,I’ve now done a lot of wood replacement from just pieces to full bodies and doors. Originally I didn’t have much other than small power tools and a 14” bandsaw. Now of course, I have much better power tools geared more towards speeding up the work so it is more affordable for my customers. The best thing about wood is if you screw up just make another and use the mistake for firewood. 
     Many of us don’t know how capable we are of doing things until we try them. I do not believe in telling anyone they can’t or shouldn’t do something unless it’s dangerous or serious consequences if mistakes are made. I believe in always making an attempt. I’m a lot like Rob Schneider, “you can do it!”😁Besides, attempting and learning something new is an education. 

[Angelfish]

The more I read about restoring a wood car the more I want to give it a try. 

 

There’s always the too expensive, too long, too much work crowd.   Which I find a little ironic in something called an Antique Automobile Club.   If you want easy and cheap you can always sit in the basement watching Golden Girls reruns and playing solitaire.

 

 

Edited June 10 by Angelfish (see edit history)

[Tom Boehm]

This turned into a long thread but the OP did not return to read any responses.

[ramair]

3 hours ago, Tom Boehm said:

This turned into a long thread but the OP did not return to read any responses.

This is why I do not immediately post on a thread from someone new until I see if they revisit this site. Might seem socially rude not to jump in and try to help, but it burns me out to write a response to someone as to not be condescending, or being a smart ass or did I say something to witty like “you can’t fix stupid but you can dull it with a two by four”.  Instead I try to be encouraging and welcoming. Those that know me understand how difficult that is for me to do and how many times I erase a whole paragraph and start over.  
 Very disappointing to spend 30 minutes wordsmithing, checking my grammar and punctuation, removing anything that might be political or offensive to a new member of the forum.  After all of that,  I see that the new member never read my literary masterpiece and the only people that read it are the people that know me well enough to wonder why I write way different than I talk😇

[Jeff Deringer]

Most likely busy kicking himself in the ass!